Things you'd like to see...

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 10:29 am

Sleeping_Dragon wrote:How about as minor a UI (game-wise) suggestion as they get. In the Headquarters screen, where you choose whick squad you want to bring up (1st screen after entering HQ) when you choose a squad you have to click where in states "SQUAD X", how about letting us choose the squad by clicking on thier unit name (ie. Viscious Witches). This is soooo minor, but everytime I go to HQ I try to click on the name.... then click on the name agian, thinking I missed it... 3rd time I click on the name I FINALLY remember you can't do that.

Can ya cater to a idiot who can't remember which button to push?

Its already done.

Muz · Post by **Muz** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 12:14 pm

I'd appreciate it if there were better online multiplayer capabilities. I mean, the battles don't have to be hosted on VB/Matrix servers, I'd just like it if I could find some opponents within the game, instead of having to go all the way to Wargamer. You know, some little room joinable within the game where ToS players online at the moment could gather.

Warring Suns is a commercial game after all. Most commercial games need online multiplayer capabilities to shine, though it seems that Warring Suns has gone quite well with what there is. But still... it would be nice for newbies like me.

cyavhn · Post by **cyavhn** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 3:00 pm

most of the people who play ToS online have ICQ ... just turn on your ICQ program and add the ICQ#`s that you can get from the different threads in this forum or by clicking the profile button on any post to your buddy list ... send a message and your sure to get a reply ... there is no shortage of people wanting to play now that WS is out!

AStott · Post by **AStott** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 5:03 pm

LarkinVB wrote:Its already done.

Oh yay! Brilliant. That'll be really nice.

How about another UI idea. It seems like almost every UI screen that has an exit button has the button located in a different location. Any chance that could get changed to be a single consistent location so you don't have to jump the mouse back and forth all over the place the shut everything down? This is mostly just an issue in the HQ.

By the way, all these nifty improvements... any idea when a patch will be forthcoming?

Muz · Post by **Muz** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 5:34 pm

That's kinda why I asked. I'm too lazy to log on to IMs, coz they slow down my computer and connection ever so slightly and tend to log off when I'm not looking. It would be a bit more professional to have a little multiplayer room feature in-game.

Sleeping_Dragon · Post by **Sleeping_Dragon** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:50 pm

Thanks Larkin

@Ascott I had noticed something with the exit buttons also, but after looking agian, I don't think it's that they're at different locations so much then that it's a long mouse drag to use them and you notice it a bit it your clicking through screens and pausing briefly to look at stuff.

IRC in the HQ the EXIT button is only used the close the HQ module and go back to the Command Module. The Confiramation for database changes pops up on the screen, not a normal 'exit' location, but you don't want this to be a 'normal' exit since it can screw your data. Every other 'exit' is with the left and right 'page' keys. The 'page' keys can be a little odd since they both turn pages (like the 2 pages of the titan database screen) and double as a 'page up/down' key taking you to differnent 'levels' within the HQ.

Not sure if anything can help this other then maybe moving the 'page' keys closer to where most of the 'text action' takes place. Maybe you could clarify a bit? or give an example of exacly what your doing and how it could be changed?

Now.... with all that said....
Using the 'Right-click' feature to 'page back' a screen 'fixed' the noticable long and frequent mouse drags that caught my eye (and MAY be what your noticing also) God forbid I have to move that great big heavy mouse a whopping 2 inches (~5cm for everyone who don't use NON-retarded measurement standards) geez.... I am SOOOO lazy.

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 9:55 pm

I'm SOO happy the discussion is about the placement of exit buttons. This is a real good evidence that the game is nearly bug free. No CTD yet .....

AStott · Post by **AStott** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 11:45 pm

LarkinVB wrote:I'm SOO happy the discussion is about the placement of exit buttons. This is a real good evidence that the game is nearly bug free. No CTD yet .....

Oh yes, it's definitely very stable. Kudos.

Sleeping_Dragon: I'm going to have to go back and look again. I think part of it is that when you go from the HQ to the main menu, your mouse recenters...

Looking at it, it's not just the exit/back that's a problem. See, selecting the jock/titan is done up at the top of the screen, while moving forward to see more details is at the bottom. Perhaps if those red arrow buttons were... up near the top somewhere. Also, when you exit a team to go back to the list of teams (in HQ again), if you were planning on exiting, your mouse has just been moved up to the top of the screen in order to make it easy to confirm the save. Maybe that's the problem. When the interface moves your cursor for you, the result is that you end up having to pick up the mouse and move it, or run out of mousing surface. Maybe that's what bugs me. If the interface doesn't move the cursor, then I move my mouse to move the cursor, but at least my mouse is able to stay in the same area of my desk without having to pick it up and "recenter". Make sense?

The right mouse click to go back definitely helps a LOT... Now I just have to train myself to use that instead of clicking on the buttons.

AStott · Post by **AStott** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 10:21 pm

Another idea to be looked at (and most likely discarded, but hey, worth a shot).

I was thinking today that every single one of my jocks fight in every single battle, because there really isn't any reason for them not to fight.

I'm thinking that if wounds took longer to heal (like potentially 2 or 3 battles) to heal, and if wounds affected your performance (they may right now anyway), then there would be a good reason why you might not want to include all of your pilots in each fight. I think this would provide some interesting tactical situations because you would need to figure out how to work around "missing spots" in your usual roster.

This would of course need to be paired with an HQ option that would allow you to heal for a month (and pay the corresponding upkeep fees). You would also probably want this feature turned off for the special team types.

Any thoughts?

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:59 pm

tarendelcymir wrote:That one's easy already. Just make a special squad consisting of one jock, and have he/she buy the titan you want to test. I do it with every titan I build.

How does one make a "special" squad? The only ones I make can't buy anything bigger then a Recon.

Silvermane · Post by **Silvermane** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:29 am

Yossarian wrote:How does one make a "special" squad? The only ones I make can't buy anything bigger then a Recon.

Manual, Page 10.

Basically, you create a dummy Jock with the name of SKILL (take care, it's case sensitive) and a nick of XXX, where XXX stands for the number of DP every jock starts out with. Name: SKILL Callsign: 2500 would yield 2500 Development points instead of the usual 333.

Same with MONEY.

Special Squads, however, do not improve, nor do they gain/lose titans, jocks or money. Also, no transfers are allowed to or from special teams. They're great for tournament games and for testing new Titan designs, but they're static.

-Silvermane

Sleeping_Dragon · Post by **Sleeping_Dragon** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:43 am

Team upkeep:

First, I found that I'm not keeping any salvaged titans from the battlefield since I'll end up having to pay upkeep on them, I used to keep the ones I could use as back-ups in case one of my current titans got fragged or if I was planning on switching sizes in the near future. Any thoughts on maybe toning down upkeep for 'mothballed' titans? maybe some small fraction of what the upkeep would be if one of my jocks was actually using it?

Second, A lot of the time I'm only up for a quick game with 1-2 titans, and I would like to play with members of my current squad. Maybe running a couple battles for one of them that is lagging behind in XPs maybe a latecomer or a replacement jock. But it appears that if I do this, I still have to pay upkeep for the whole team, this quickly puts a drian on my cash flow, since I'll not make enough to cover the upkeep. This makes sense in a 'real world' situation, but maybe for game play, the upkeep for the jocks/titans that didn't take part in the battle could be significantly reduced? I wouldn't mind losing a little money but now it feels like a big 'ol sucking vortex.

AStott · Post by **AStott** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:14 am

I agree that it would be very nice if the upkeep for titans and jocks that do not participate in a battle was greatly reduced. I think it makes things more interesting because it opens up the possibility to have a single team that can experiment with a number of different types of team configurations.

Intruder · Post by **Intruder** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:42 am

I too would like the upkeep costs of titans not in use to be lessened. I was wondering why they cost just as much to house them in a hanger and they do to maintain them after a battle. Those rats in the hanger must be death on the wireing!

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:24 am

Upkeep cost in TOS:WS is somewhat balanced. Reducing it would spoil it for some players as they will feel no monetary strain at all. If you feel that you are low on money do something against it and don't ask for prices to be reduced. The ammo is already free, isn't that enough :rolleyes: ?

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:17 pm

Intruder wrote:I too would like the upkeep costs of titans not in use to be lessened. I was wondering why they cost just as much to house them in a hanger and they do to maintain them after a battle. Those rats in the hanger must be death on the wireing!

Upkeep cost has nothing to do with battle "attrition". It's the regular maintenance cost of a Titan, whether it was in battle or not. Battle attrition maintenance is factored in in repairs. Same as in jocks - they have to eat whether they went on that mission with their squad mates or not. That's why it's called upkeep

Remember that one battle corresponds to one month game time.

AStott · Post by **AStott** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:53 pm

What! Ammo is free? I just figured that was part of the maintenance cost. Well then, what about paying a fee to bring a titan in and out of mothball status. Hmm... I guess the response to that would be ... "consider selling and repurchasing a titan to be that fee"... On the other hand, it seems like you can always (at least that I've seen) be allowed more titans on your team than jocks, and yet who in their right mind would do that when you have to pay upkeep on those titans?

And eating is part of the jock maintenance cost? So what, as they gain experience, they eat more? You're just looking at it wrong. See, when they fight in a battle, they get combat pay, which means when they don't, you don't pay them as much.

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:12 pm

Can someone give me a clue where this discussion should lead to ?

If I reduce maintanence/salary for inactive titans/jocks to satisfy some players desire for realism I will also have to reduce payment or increase maintanence/salary for the active titans/jocks to keep the monetary system balanced. It will hardly earn you more money, just a different formula. Is it worth the trouble ?

Sleeping_Dragon · Post by **Sleeping_Dragon** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:24 pm

LarkinVB wrote:If I reduce maintanence/salary for inactive titans/jocks to satisfy some players desire for realism I will also have to reduce payment or increase maintanence/salary for the active titans/jocks to keep the monetary system balanced. It will hardly earn you more money, just a different formula. Is it worth the trouble ?

I'm not following your reasoning and I'm not sure your following mine. Amount of codework aside for the sake of discussion.

Currently, I'm running a squar with 4 titans and 4 jocks, all 4 jocks go on almost every combat mission because of money, not because I'm short, but if I send out only 1 or 2 jocks on several battles the upkeep would drain me fairly quickly. I also don't keep any 'mothballed' titans as the upkeep for them just isn't worth keeping there more then 1 - 3 combats, IF I'm planning to use them. It's cheaper to sell them then buy them back later.

Actually, with reduced upkeep costs for mothballed titans, I'd be more likely to hold on to salvaged ones for longer or even have a 'backup' titan for different terrians (something I will not do now, costs too much). In the long run I'd end up spending more money then I am now, but it would be more spread out over time. Reason being, I WOULD have spare titans, even at a reduced upkeep they would cost more then NO spare titans at full upkeep.

Same argument holds for reduced upkeep for jocks and thier titans not in a battle. Currently, I VERY rarely take out a partial team, drains my coffers to quickly. If upkeep for 'homebodies' were reduced, I'd do it much more often. I don't mind looseing a little cash overall for a partial team combat, but now the lose is prohibitive enough that I don't bother. With a reduced upkeep for 'homebodies' I could also design a larger squad and take out 'specialized' sub-squads. In the long run I would make less money per combat on average. The more partial team combats you play the less cash you make. Now, with the cost prohibitively high, I don't bother with partial team combats and I'm not loosing any cash to this effect, partial upkeep would in the long run cost me more then a full upkeep.
'Realism' has only a minor wieght to the discussion as game balance is by far the predominate concern. 'Realiam-wise' mothballed titans should cost less, but good arguments could be made for both full and reduced upkeep on 'Homebody' jocks.

Codework, back in, I think it would be worth a fair amount to do this, it IMO would open up some options. Worth days of rewrites? NO.

Finally.. (my fingers are getting tired

) how much 'ballpark figure' does it cost to swap jocks between squads? This my allow me to do some of the things I'm getting at. And since I don't have but 1 squad I can't try it myself.

OTOH.. I'm not following your logic Larkin, I don't see why any rebalancing of 'combat-active' jocks and titans would need to be affected. I don't NEED to make money doing these types of things, I just need to not lose the shirt off my back if I do. Maybe I'm missing part of the picture? If I am can you spot what I'm missing and enlighten me?

sorry for the long post.. just trying to be clear on my reasoning.

Sleeping_Dragon · Post by **Sleeping_Dragon** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:03 pm

opps..