How is this for an exciting moment

[Rhino WSO]

Hey, a topic a can provide insight on (as I'm still working out the kinks in playing WITP)...
I'm a Weapons System Officer (backseater) in a Super Hornet and that IS a live missile (AIM-9) that came off the rail when the jet trapped. I've seen other pictures of this mishap before and we use them to stress the importance of good ordnance handling with our "Ordies" (weapon loaders). BTW, you cannot shoot a Sidewinder without a lock and "Maddog" is a term for only active Radar missiles (AMRAAM). You also cannot launch/release weapons with weight on wheels (like what Barlock said). Now back to learning how my predecessors did it... [:)]

[CoffeeMug]

ORIGINAL: Rhino WSO
"Maddog" is a term for only active Radar missiles (AMRAAM).

Ok, copy that. [:)]

ORIGINAL: Rhino WSO
BTW, you cannot shoot a Sidewinder without a lock and

Well, after you uncaged the seeker head, the diamond will track the hottest IR source in your HUD, not? So, you dont have to have a RADAR lock IMO. Fox Two.

Cheers,

Coffeemug

[sprior]

ORIGINAL: MadmanRick

I must assume thats a live missile laying on the flight deck

Appears to be a live 'Winder to me, iirc the navy uses blue (as does the USAF) to mark a training round. So it should either have a blue body or blue bands on it to signify that it is inert. I can see no such markings. Also being that close to the A/C, if the rocket had ignited it would be readily appearent. This seems to me to be a missle that broke loose when the A/C arrested. Also, I don't think that a picture that clear would have been possible if the rocket motor had ignited. Although I suppose these could be frames from a video feed?

Rick

The colour markings are standard NATO: the gold band is for HE (the warhead) and the brown indicates low explosive, the propellant. Black is AP, white is smoke, blue is an exercise or drill round, I forget the rest...

[hithere]

i am no expert but these are stills from a video that has been floating around the web for a while...consumption juction used to have it....it was fired...when the link was sent to me it had the whole story (it was in the e-mail, not sure how credible)...either way...the video clearly shows the missle firing and then shooting off the flight deck...

[Desertdaddy]

As someone who has spent a fair amount of time on a flight deck/flight line and around ordnance (going on 18 years), you’d be amazed at what can happen when a plane traps. The most likely scenario is that the pilot tried to fire the missile in flight, for whatever reason it did not leave the rail and became jammed (or “Hung” in EOD terminology). The pilot landed very fast; as is the norm on a flight deck. The sudden deceleration caused the missile to come lose. The missile not wanting to stop (a object in motion wants to stay in motion); slid off the rail, down the flight deck, and into the sea.
The missile motor did not fire. When an AIM-9L/M missile fires its motor you will know it.
Over the years I’ve seen stuff fall off jets all the time. Seeing the countermeasure flares eject 5 feet before touchdown on a dark night is really cool.[8D]

A few corrections to the earlier posts: The “Forrest Fire” was indeed started by a Zuni; a 5” Zuni rocket, not missile. Missiles have guidance rockets do not.

A Yellow, not gold, band around the warhead denotes high explosives.

Cheers,
Desertdaddy

[strawbuk]

Hmm... 1 - so someone just happend to be videoing the landing did they? Standard practice to help training? Or deck crew do it just in case they can make £50 off 'USN's Craziest Videos' show?

Hmm 2 - missile not fired we agree, so flew off when ac arrrested? So a. why fins not bent by hitting deck b. why going in straight line, despite being in contact with deck (too low speed for fins to have effect?),

Hmm 3 why in second shot is front of missile now off the deck? Again , not fired so why moving fast enough to 'fly' . I know those boys land fast but not THAT fast.

Hmm 4 'When an AIM-9L/M missile fires its motor you will know it.' so not gone off. But just enough 'smoke' in picture to suggest a fired missile to uninformed - where is that smoke coming from so convienently from tail pipe?

Hmm 5 - expert opinion/advice please - if arresting, where is wire/hook? Would still be in shot if missile just 'jerked off'?

Hmm 6 - the really paranoid may wish to start assessing the relationship of the ac and missile shadows (but I may be pushing that).

BOGUS!

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: strawbuk

Hmm... 1 - so someone just happend to be videoing the landing did they? Standard practice to help training? Or deck crew do it just in case they can make £50 off 'USN's Craziest Videos' show?

Hmm 2 - missile not fired we agree, so flew off when ac arrrested? So a. why fins not bent by hitting deck b. why going in straight line, despite being in contact with deck (too low speed for fins to have effect?),

Hmm 3 why in second shot is front of missile now off the deck? Again , not fired so why moving fast enough to 'fly' . I know those boys land fast but not THAT fast.

Hmm 4 'When an AIM-9L/M missile fires its motor you will know it.' so not gone off. But just enough 'smoke' in picture to suggest a fired missile to uninformed - where is that smoke coming from so convienently from tail pipe?

Hmm 5 - expert opinion/advice please - if arresting, where is wire/hook? Would still be in shot if missile just 'jerked off'?

Hmm 6 - the really paranoid may wish to start assessing the relationship of the ac and missile shadows (but I may be pushing that).

BOGUS!

I have no naval or aircraft experience but as an engineer I can tell you that when you stop a plane on the arrester gear there is a LOT of enegy there... take its speed times is weight and that will give you a good idea... Now the missile breaks free.... Take the speed of plane times the weight of the missile and thats how much energy the missile has... The arrester gear stops the plane and absorbs the energy... but the missile flies forward and hits the deck... The only thing absorbing its energy is friction and I bet its not enough to stop that missile (moving at 150+ mph) from flying off the end of the flight deck.

As for photographing landings, perhaps they were doing ratings on all pilots that day and rating their landings or who knows... Maybe they film all landings with digital cameras. That would have no real cost and provide endless means of better training for landings...

As for arresting, you cannot see the back half of the plane where the hook and wire would be... As for the smoke you see coming off the back of the missile, it could be heat buildup from the friction with the deck.. Not sure what the fins are made off, but it should be something fairly durable (aluminum ?) which would smoke real fast at the speeds the missile would be travelling...

As for why the missile goes in a straight line... Why not ? the fines are stablized and should be fairly even and the flight deck is even, so what would cause it to swerve ?

Like I said I am not knowledgable in military matters like this, but it seems completely feasible in physics terms for this to happen...

Xargun

[tanker4145]

I can tell you from experience that dropped ordinance can smoke without going off. We were moving some captured rockets and mortar rounds out of our company base in Iraq when someone dropped one as they were loading it on a HEMMET (or whatever the acronym for those damn things), it started smoking and everyone did their best impression of an Olympic sprinter. After about 5 minutes it quit smoking and we waited another hour and got back to work, so that could explain the smoke, but just a guess.

[Desertdaddy]

Thanks X, a much better response then I could ever have typed up.

ORIGINAL: strawbuk

Hmm... 1 - so someone just happend to be videoing the landing did they? Standard practice to help training? Or deck crew do it just in case they can make £50 off 'USN's Craziest Videos' show?

Each service has a Rating/MOS or Specialty Code for combat camera. It’s that person’s job to take pictures of everything that happens. That’s where much of the more mundane pictures of military operations come from. The press will show you all the sensational and gory bits about war, A combat camera man/person will take pictures of the mechanic fixing a flat tire, the cook serving food (after the VIP has left) or the combat team taking enemy fire. They take pictures for history not headlines

Hmm 2 - missile not fired we agree, so flew off when ac arrrested? So a. why fins not bent by hitting deck b. why going in straight line, despite being in contact with deck (too low speed for fins to have effect?),

The sidewinder missile in the pictures might look small (compared to an ICBM) but it’s really a fairly stout well-constructed weapon system. Check out this web page for lots of pictures of sidewinders:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 9-pics.htm

Hmm 3 why in second shot is front of missile now off the deck? Again , not fired so why moving fast enough to 'fly' . I know those boys land fast but not THAT fast.

See X's post about speed and physics

Hmm 4 'When an AIM-9L/M missile fires its motor you will know it.' so not gone off. But just enough 'smoke' in picture to suggest a fired missile to uninformed - where is that smoke coming from so convienently from tail pipe?

Check out the web page indicated about, it has cool photo of sidewinder just after being fired from a F/A-18, cool flames

Hmm 5 - expert opinion/advice please - if arresting, where is wire/hook? Would still be in shot if missile just 'jerked off'?

A tail hook is at the rear of the plane. The rear of the plane is not fully in frame. Expert on tail hooks not needed for this one.

Hmm 6 - the really paranoid may wish to start assessing the relationship of the ac and missile shadows (but I may be pushing that).

The shadows look like the sun is high in the sky, perhaps midday or a few hours either side of noon on first picture. Second picture shadow looks about the same. I’m by no means a weatherman, astronomer, astrologer (or what ever a person who studies the sun is called), but I am a sun worshiper (I love the beach).

BOGUS!

Oh well...

[timtom]

We were moving some captured rockets and mortar rounds out of our company base in Iraq when someone dropped one as they were loading it on a HEMMET (or whatever the acronym for those damn things), it started smoking and everyone did their best impression of an Olympic sprinter.

LOL [:D] ...Hmm, well, I guess it's not funny, really.

[Desertdaddy]

ORIGINAL: tanker4145

After about 5 minutes it quit smoking and we waited another hour and got back to work, so that could explain the smoke, but just a guess.

I have to ask, who was the lucky fellow that walked up first and said everything was ok?

[ATCSMike]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: RevRick

A friend of mine sent me this one. I had to pass it on.

I must assume thats a live missile laying on the flight deck.... Did the pilot fire it ?

Xargun

I doubt it. There is no smoke trail coming off the missile. Looks like when the F18 caught the wire, the missile shackel broke/came loose and it just kept going after the plane stopped.

Mike

[ATCSMike]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Isn't that how Forrestal went up?

A ZUNI rocket set the Forrestal ablaze, I believe. I had to watch the film when I reported to my ship.

Here's a link: http://www.forrestal.org/fidfacts/page13.htm

Mike

[tanker4145]

My maintenance NCO (SFC/E-7) who was in charge of the detail went up to it. He is the finest NCO I've had the privelege to serve with. I was trying to call some engineers to check it out, but before I know it, he'd loaded it himself. This happened twice I think. Of course, we also had 2 grenades thrown over the walls which is very scary when you're living next to live ammo. Luckily, two guys only caught tiny pieces of shrapnel and were returned to duty. It took us about a month for our tank company to clear that place out.

We were living in a potato factory that had been taken over by the republican guard and turned into a weapon, ammo, clothing, and equipment storage place. There was an amazing selection of weapons. AK's in every flavor, Draganov's, RPKs, various SKS's, some enfields, M1's, 1903's, RPGs, mines, grenades, mortars, rockets, a weapon lovers dream. We had many an SF/SEAL, heck even an SAS team stop by once they heard about it. They'd take what they want and usually give us something cool in return--not that they had to, just being nice. The British rations were a nice change of pace for us for a day or so.

Alright, time to get off my war story soap box. [:)]