Invading Johore/Mersing

[Culiacan Mexico]

ORIGINAL: John III
… Do any of you honestly believe that the British would have opened fire and STARTED the Pacific War? As we know, they were tracking the approaching convoys but did nothing to stop them.

It was a tough call and command paraylsis during those opening days was frightful...

Any alteration in Japanese Naval movements pre-war could have drawn an Allied response, yet history shows the Allied command was very slow to respond the move Japan made historically… why would anyone expect reasonable ‘historic alternate’ move to have drawn a quick response?

I don’t see the British opening fire on the convoy until it prepares to land troops (the Japanese would be wiped out), but I also don’t see the Japanese taskforce commander willing to try such an invasion.

I just don’t know what the British would have done if the Japanese had tried such an invasion on ‘turn one’, but I believe any naval movement within a certain range of Force-Z would have drawn some response; and since the game doesn’t model this response… I have a house rule that prohibits any such movement on ‘turn one’. I try to play within the limits of the game and a turn one invasion of Johore/Mersing seems not to meet that standard.

Just my opinion.

[Sneer]

Well, i would not go for mersing....the Z force can really ruin your day if it comes out .....If i was your allied opponent i'll be glad to have the chance of using my Z force to scrumble your eggs during the first big landing of the Malaya Campaign!

if you attack on turn 1 you face 2 SC TFs
1st 2 kongos + destroyers
2nd CAs TFs
if you go after house rules Mogami proposed you faced 2 SC TFs
first 2 kongos + 4 CAs + long lance destroyers
second 4 old BB + old destroyers and some CLs

probability of defeating screening forces and then destroying 50+convoy is marginal.
if Japan loose capital it is still worth for blitzkrieg in Malaya
remember that damaged capital will probably be sunk before singapore will be reached.

[Culiacan Mexico]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl
…Maybe they just start shooting, maybe they radio the Japanese to turn around or be fired on. But to say that they sit on their hands for two days and allow this to happen is to grasp at some pretty big straws…

Request to bomb the invasion fleet buildup that is going to be used to invade the Philippines… denied.

The British might have intercepted the convoy, but it is very unlikely they would have opened fire in International Waters. Even the historic invasion fleet that the British knew was carrying troops to be used in attacking Malaysia were left unmolested, by both air and sea assets… even after the Japanese had shot down a British patrol aircraft (before the war started).

I don’t know that British would have taken any effective action, especially if the Japanese throw in a CVL and a surface fleet to support it, and that is the problem I have with such an invasion: in game terms the Japanese player does know what the British response will be… nothing. If the game scripted a variable response: 20% chance Force-Z intercepts with no aircover, 20% Force-Z intercept with full aircover and supporting British strike aircraft, 60% no effective action (examples). Ok, but without some possibility of Allied response near such an important Allied base with powerful assets… I believe it goes too far.

[kaiser73]

ORIGINAL: John III

Hello Gang. I am about to start my first campaign game of WitP using the standard Sc 15. In invading Malaysia and going after Singapore, I am thinking about landing troops just above Singapore at Johore/Mersing.

My thoughts are that I could easily grab it from whatever force is currently there and then use those troops to block the door so no one can retreat down the peninsula into Singapore. Effectively, I could cut off the retreat of everything north of the position. Might this make the reduction of Singapore more quick and easy?

What are your thoughts?

I have read this thread just now. I am the opponent of John III. and he didn't do anything gamey. I told him clearly that as Allies i don't mind Japan invading bases on turn 1 regardless if this could activate some Allied Reactions in RL.

Using invasions on turn 1 as Japan is compensated by the fact that in RL it took Allies (expecially english and Dutch) a week to actually figure out what was going on.
In the game, Allied TFs head for Australia/India on day 1, Allies start to reinforce PM from Day 1. Cause you do know where the Japan will go.
In addition, given the LB unhistorical efficiency against naval targets, Allies have a HUGE boost from mid '42.

As allied player in this game, i don't mind some unhistorical openings from time to time. It makes the game a little more various and more challenging.

Anyway, Invading Mersing on turn 1 doesn't help IMO. you lose more navy and you can't cut off troops anyway. as you know John, my troops are already safe [;)]