RIDERS ON THE STORM-THANK YOU

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner
I tried to bomb with a single group (12 planes) of B-17 the port of Tricomale from 33,000 ft... Trollelite calls it gamey, so no more max ceiling.

Unbelievable, this guy takes the entire SRA and Malaya via the gamey warp move exploit and he has the audacity to say using 4E bombers within their historical performance limits is gamey. LOL I can’t believe this guy.

No way should you cave on this point G.H., early war Japanese fighters could not intercept allied 4E bombers at high altitudes, that is factual and in no way an exploit.

Basically what he’s gotten you to agree to is to let him destroy your few heavy bombers. Allied heavies cannot stand the morale hits caused in the opening months of the game by air to air hits/losses, so they will plummet into the 20’s and 30’s and the ones that survive air to air will be absolutely useless.

Use them at high altitudes as I did in my game until they get their morale into the high 70’s. Then they might have a chance to do something at lower altitudes. Until they have decent fighter escorts, the allied heavies cannot stand up to the loses they will suffer, because in this mod there are very few replacements.

With his whining he’s gotten you to agree to negate the effectiveness of your 4E bombers for him. The only allied strength in the air model is now a non-issue in your game, unless you stand by your guns and tell him to piss off.

Jim

[eloso]

ORIGINAL: jumper

Hi,
you shoudl ask him if he will honour his own rules and will not use Zeke-Kamikaze flying above your CAP later in the game.

There is a huge difference in level bombing above the effective ceiling of CAP and using Kamikaze above this level. The bombers deliver their ordinance from the level they are set whereas the Kamikaze must fly down to sea level to achieve results. Currently, the engine doesn't recognize the latter of the two.

IMO it isn't gamey to bomb from high altitude. It is up to your opponent to develop the fighters to combat this threat.

[racndoc]

General Hoepner.....

Hey..... at least controversy can be a good thing....your thread is probably the most widely read thread on the forum now!

I almost want to apologize to you for my previous advice now....when I gave it Japan had neither conquered Singapore or Java. My advice was based on a March-May 1942 India invasion time frame.....I had no idea that you would be under assault in India in early Jan. 1942.

I re-read your entire thread and was astonished by the house rules.

To wit:

" 10. Except initial chinese exp. force, only 2 other chinese corps could be changed to southest asia command and be able to fight in burma and india. There is no restriction to support however."

I've never seen ANY house rule like this before in any game, PERIOD. As far as Im concerned, if you pay the PPs for activation you can do whatever you please.

Then there was this FURTHER STIPULATION......" Those 2 corps should be announced." If this isnt a declaration of war on India I dont what is.

Your opponent obviously tailored the house rules rules to his strategy.


Dont know what to tell you about India now except maybe a final redoubt in Karachi with everything you can muster.


In regards to your response on an attack on India you mentioned 33,000 troops on Kwajalein....I doubt if there are evem one quarter of these troops in the entire Marianas. Why mess with Kwajalein....get all your seabees and build up Eniwetok and capture Maloelap. Just think if you could get 100k-200k supply into the PI.


My only other thought on this is in regards to the naval warfare. On 1/12/42 you mentioned that Japan was flying 266 fighters on CAP over KB.
Well, KB gives you 158 fighters. Ryuho, Zuiho, Hosho and Taiyo take that up to 241 fighters. That means your opponent probably swapped out a Val group for another A6M2 daitai....dont know if you had any house rules on this but I think that its in the dreaded "gamey" mode.

Obviously your opponent has created a super 'Death Star". Your only response is to evacuate the 2 RN CVs to Australia if still possible and form them up with the USN CVs for the deciding naval battle of the war.

Good luck

[Gen.Hoepner]

Mates, let's put a-part the complaints.It was not my intention to start a fight against Trollelite, also because he cannot say his word in this thread so it's not correct to "speak beyond his shoulders" (i do not know if this way of saying makes any sense to you, hope so). It was my mistake to talk about what he says to me and put it here. Sorry.
Let's go back to the war.

The last turn our light bombers on Naval search in India were simply slaughtered by his CAP. 46 planes lost in A2A fights!!!!! They were all in naval search missions...13 hudsons, 4 Catalinas, 3 ducth patrol boat, then Martins,Bostons, Albacores...every single light bomber type has been shot down....it's quite depressing.
I tried to set an higher altitude and see what happens.
I'm starting to fear his paras in India now. I'm seizing my rear area bases with minor units, in order to keep open the way towards Delhi and Karachi, but with the range of some IJNAF transport planes it's quite an impossible task!
The RN will be using the "fleet in being" approach.I'll follow your suggestions and won't try any suicide attacks (also because now it's already too late).
Finally his subs are starting to pay a price for their aggressiveness. Many are damaged and many more are getting sunk.
While my subs are doing a fair job. Problem is that the KB in the area has damaged a lot of them and those who are not already sunk are struggling for their life trying to reach safe ports before going down...
The Indian situation looks really bad. I'll try to fight a mobile defence, but it won't be easy. I have to face simply too many men and in India, with flat terrain and so many railroads, every redoubt i'd try to make will be easily flanked and sorrounded.

For what concerns the Marshalls,yes Kwalajein at the beginning won't be the target. The important thing is to suppress its airfield before my ships come into action. I'll need some good numbers of 4Es from Wake to do the job. Won't be so easy so early in the war, as you know. Very few 4Es at disposal, no long range fighters to escort them....Anyway, the plan remains more or less the same. Siezing Tarawa first; Maloap ASAP, then the other minor islands in the area, so isolating Kwalajein.
But however, the most important thing is to remain flexible. I have to consider that he can bring here his assets (KB or land based air units) and these can transform the whole operation into a disaster.

At the same time most of Aus assets are moving towards Darwin. Wanna start Asap a bombing campaign in souther DEI. Timor and Ambonia must be reduced to pieces. If he wants to use a massive air force in India he must leave some other theatres uncovered...

[Gen.Hoepner]

One more thing: in China things should start to move again the next week. Our men are arriving into planned positions.Let's see if i can cause him some more headhaces....

[cantona2]

Good luck GH, for once us AFB's are behind you

[String]

I support the ideas of taking multiple bases in the marshalls. With your BB's intact you should be able to protect the place from naval bombardments while you stack the airbases skyhigh with LBA.

Be sure to bring in your marine F4F squadrons as they have the best replacement rates for the early allied fighters.

[Nemo121]

Don't let him talk you out of using your B-17s at high altitude. They could fly that high and their accuracy is reduced when flying that high. The game models it well. In my game vs Jagdfluger he has responded to this by using Ki-43 Is to outpost likely points of attack and those Ki-43s can actually get interceptions.
 
Overall though he has just made enough rules in his favour that whether he wins or not it isn't going to be a testament to his skill - which is a pity. This game isn't about being fair to either side or both sides. It is about giving players the opportunity to show their strategic and operational abilities in a situation where skill actually impacts on the result.

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[Gen.Hoepner]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/18/42


Here we are... he's already landed at Mannarguti...the invasion of India has begun!
A very tiny force. a Naval garrison unit. won't take the beach with it.However this means he's testing the ground to see what he has to face. Now i have to do slow him. The bigger risk is to place all my eggs in the same basket and get caught by his sallies...have to distribute well my air forces. He has 500 planes at Tricomale (level 3). 200 bombers and nearly 300 fighters, plus the KB...a HUGE force...simply too much to handle.
My losses, even today, were great for those units on naval search. Still do not have the number but the operational report says it clearly: it's even risky to fly my bombers at 26000 fts on naval search...[:@]
3 of his subs were hit today by my bombers, but with a level 9 port so close i doubt many of them will sink...
He's running fast, too fast. With this pace by the end of Jan he can be at the very gates of Karachi....it's amazing the pace he's keeping.
Today over Colombo the sun was obscurated by hundreds japanese planes that brought death over the sieged city, already damned to death.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Colombo , at 11,25

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 39
Ki-21-II Sally x 184[X(]
Ki-49 Helen x 49[X(]

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-II Sally: 24 damaged
Ki-49 Helen: 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk: 3 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed
Albacore: 1 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
74 casualties reported

Airbase hits 10
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 98

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 61 encounters mine field at Mannargudi (15,22)

TF 61 troops unloading over beach at Mannargudi, 15,22


Japanese Ships
PG Tamo Maru #6

Coastal Guns at Mannargudi, 15,22, firing at TF 61
Japanese ground losses:
74 casualties reported



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Mannargudi

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4536 troops, 40 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 196

Defending force 605 troops, 1 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 10


Japanese ground losses:
82 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

[Gen.Hoepner]

A question: CVL Hermes is supposed to appear at Colombo within 50 days. Colombo for that date will be lost. Does this mean that i've lost Hermes? If Aden remains in my hands won't it appear there?  Same goes for the other units supposed to appear in other indian cities (Rapalwindi for ex.)...
Thx

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner
However this means he's testing the ground to see what he has to face. Now i have to do slow him.

Hi G.H.,

You need to be careful about the urge to oppose him on the beaches for every base. It would be very easy for him to head-fake you by landing 1-2 divisions in southern India, and then he lands another 6 divisions at Bombay 1-2 weeks later trapping everything you send down there in the south. It’ll take you weeks to march anywhere that he can sail too in just a few days, so you need to anticipate him well in advance.

Remember you had 12 brigades on Malaya, and look how quickly he mopped them up once he was able to isolate them from each other. If he can do that in India, he’ll do the same to you here. And the forces in India are not as strong as the forces you had arrayed in Malaya.

Make sure every unit you have is prepping for Karachi right now. Also get the British 18th division to Aden now if possible, before land based air makes the trip too dangerous. Has it arrived yet in your game, I think it should have by now, but I can't remember?

Basically you have 11 brigade equivalents (7 brigades and 4 weak divisions each weaker than a brigade right now) and some very weak armor units with no tanks. He can rip through your troops like butter right now. You need to start falling back with the majority of your forces towards Karachi.

If you fight him on the beaches at best you’ll slow him down for a few weeks. If you successfully create a strong defensive redoubt, it can hold out for Months. But it needs to be very strong to resist all the divisions he can bring to India right now.

And if you get the majority of your forces there, perhaps it will never be taken, since units from Burma will be arriving into eastern India, forcing him to keep large parts of his forces in the east until those Burma forces are dealt with. So I’d get at least 2/3rds or more of your troops to Karachi as fast as possible and have the rest fight a delaying action as they fall back on Karachi.

Right now would be a perfect time to launch 6-8 Chinese Corps into Indo-China. Don’t go in piecemeal with them though since Chinese forces are not strong on the offensive, so consolidate your stack first, and then blitz into Indo-China. If you can take the bases in northern Indo-China and threaten to march towards Saigon, I bet it’ll force him to pull a division or two from his India invasion.

Jim

Edit: I think the Hermes is delayed until you retake the base, but I'm not 100% sure though.

[Gen.Hoepner]

Yes Jim, that's a pretty important point to underline.
The fact is that India is very tough to defend. The lack of natural redoubts makes almost impossible to hold a strongline without the risk of being outflanked. And this only speaking about land warfare! With its ability of going everywhere with his fleet (covered by the KB) at the moment every single stronghold can be outflanked and isolated. It's defenetly a problematic task. I won't be fighting on the beaches. I will just try to delay him,keeping always an eye open on my back-doors. I need to estabilish ASAP a stronghold at Bombay and one, at the same time, on the road that leads Bombay to Karachi. However it's now up to him. I can do my best but if he really wants India he can take it wight now. Probably in my possibilities there's only the Karachi and Aden holding, but nothing more....

[String]

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

Yes Jim, that's a pretty important point to underline.
The fact is that India is very tough to defend. The lack of natural redoubts makes almost impossible to hold a strongline without the risk of being outflanked. And this only speaking about land warfare! With its ability of going everywhere with his fleet (covered by the KB) at the moment every single stronghold can be outflanked and isolated. It's defenetly a problematic task. I won't be fighting on the beaches. I will just try to delay him,keeping always an eye open on my back-doors. I need to estabilish ASAP a stronghold at Bombay and one, at the same time, on the road that leads Bombay to Karachi. However it's now up to him. I can do my best but if he really wants India he can take it wight now. Probably in my possibilities there's only the Karachi and Aden holding, but nothing more....

I'm not 100% sure but I think it will appear in Aden instead.

[Gen.Hoepner]

Let's hope string...otherwise i'll lose a bunch of reinforcements (air, ground and naval) that way...

[Gen.Hoepner]

Here's the plan for my strategic retreat.
More or less...

And, i made few checks. At Aden there are already 500 AVs, with 9 forts, tons of supplies and 16inc. CD guns...really difficult for him to come here without having secured first India. However, a full division is arriving in the next 7 days and many more troops are coming...so there's no problem at Aden IMHO.

[Historiker]

It definitly appears in Aden! I know that, as I've lost Ceylon in one game before the Hermes appears.

[VSWG]

If you're feeling lucky you could slowly retreat to your 3rd defensive line and then use your troops at Aden to invade Trivandrum or Mangalore. I bet he won't guard his rear bases properly... This would at least throw a monkey wrench into his advance, or even cut him from his supply sources completely and bring his offensive to a halt. The RN carriers could defend such an invasion from unescorted 2E strikes, but KB shouldn't be around when your troops make debark.

In the meantime, IMO the best you can do is to attack somewhere else - he's so strong in India that he has to be weak elsewhere.

[PzB74]

Invasion of India in 01/42? That sounds a bit extreme Hoep.
Think I managed to land in strength by the beginning of April 42! Your opponent must have ignored a lot of preparations that will
cost him darely. Think you will be able to exploit these weaknesses.

I rolled up India first from Calcutta area and then from Madras, forcing Wobbly to split his troops.
An advance from only one axis makes it possible for you to drive into his flanks, disrupting supplies and blocking roads.

The cost to Japan will be major, not only in units but also in lost time an opportunities.
A drive into the Marshalls sounds like a sensible plan. I wouldn't overdo it and go for the Marianas before you successfully establish
yourself there.

In short, my advice is that you should follow the iron laws of logistics and let your opponent suffer the consequences of not doing so [;)]

[Gen.Hoepner]

ORIGINAL: PzB

Invasion of India in 01/42? That sounds a bit extreme Hoep.
Think I managed to land in strength by the beginning of April 42! Your opponent must have ignored a lot of preparations that will
cost him darely. Think you will be able to exploit these weaknesses.

I rolled up India first from Calcutta area and then from Madras, forcing Wobbly to split his troops.
An advance from only one axis makes it possible for you to drive into his flanks, disrupting supplies and blocking roads.

The cost to Japan will be major, not only in units but also in lost time an opportunities.
A drive into the Marshalls sounds like a sensible plan. I wouldn't overdo it and go for the Marianas before you successfully establish
yourself there.

In short, my advice is that you should follow the iron laws of logistics and let your opponent suffer the consequences of not doing so [;)]

Hi John!
Welcome aboard!
Well, doing some calculations, he has at his disposal 5500 Assault values for India (he's already taken the whole DEI-SRA-MALAYA, while bypassed Luzon). That means that there's simply no way to stop him with the forces i have in India right now. At best i can try to slow him down and exchange space for time...but nothing special. I'll try to defend Karachi and Aden; if i manage to do so, he'll be forced to keep a strong garrison in India and that will mean that only the KB will be at his disposal to stop the americans in the pacific...which is damned good!

For what concerns a counterlanding in southern India starting from Aden...well,right now his betties and nells are no match for the RAF, don't even talk about the RNAF with fulmars...no, will be a suicide. Better not to fly to much with imagination and think about defending the ground right now.