BrianG v Smokindave34 ( SMOKIN now allowed)

[BrianG]

Must be a nor'easter.

This is first week of November

[BrianG]

Major attack lineup on possible Stalino spearhead.

and please note that some of my measly little cav have turned red.

[BrianG]

A great victory.

Needed that Russian attack +1

[BrianG]

1st snow final south

Germans seem to be on defensive

[BrianG]

I advance on Tula front. Also b/c Germans are not being aggressive

[BrianG]

Moscow action.

Also no big move by Germans

[SparkleyTits]

Couldn't see fort levels but I imagine he is trying to scramble out as much construction as he can now

Your blizzard starting line is looking like a good one at multiple points and with +1 there could well be a bloody fight for Moscow on the cards if you choose to do so
Nothing like a good pile of bodies ontop of Moscow for an interesting AAR!

Good luck

[chaos45]

I think the Germans have suffered from a lack of aggression, the early game is about keeping soviet numbers low...and it looked like many turns where Germans could have pressed and didnt esp in the some of the more lightly held sectors by both sides.....if nothing else those pushes would in general inflict more soviet than german losses and have gained ground the germans could give up again over the winter.

The Germans are going to have a very rough winter with Soviet +1.

Just my 2 cents from watching this one so far.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

I think the Germans have suffered from a lack of aggression, the early game is about keeping soviet numbers low...and it looked like many turns where Germans could have pressed and didnt esp in the some of the more lightly held sectors by both sides.....if nothing else those pushes would in general inflict more soviet than german losses and have gained ground the germans could give up again over the winter.

The Germans are going to have a very rough winter with Soviet +1.

Just my 2 cents from watching this one so far.

I don't see this is as a lack of aggression, I see it differently. The very fact that you don't see the aggression is because this is attributed to the current supply rules that is hampering Germany in 41. Not to mention the fact that JU-52s are worthless. Not to mention the super high cost of a HQ Build Up. If a German player doesn't understand all of these implications of the last patch, as Tyronec mentioned in another thread, and even if he does then the Germans are going to be sitting in lawn chairs waiting on fuel to be brought up and watch the Soviets build up. I noticed the "huge" impact this current patch has on Germany and you can tell from the majority of the games that are going on. I believe my game is the only outlier but I can tell you I was fighting for every ounce of petrol in that game and is unlike any other game as Germany I have played.

[ericv]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

..

The Germans are going to have a very rough winter with Soviet +1.
..

Having just played as the soviet with +1, I agree. In the end of March, the germans were in no position at all to start an early spring offensive. Bad morale in many of their units. Most of the mot. Inf and Pz. divisions needed on the line during the winter, just to keep everything from collapsing.

[chaos45]

HL- ehh you can look at the screen shots some German units are sitting next to soviet units they can easily beat turn after turn....its worth beating them just for the morale bonus for these German units in 1941...not to mention the units Im talking about are German infantry divisions.

As to the Germans suffering....ummm...look at the game map....they still took Moscow and Leningrad...and should take Stalino complex right before blizzard based on the screen shots I see.....in general still a more successful 1941 than the Germans had historically aside from the very middle of the map....and I blame that on lack of aggression lol.

Just my 2 cents as im opinionated lol.

Im waiting for the next patch which was supposedly done a long time ago from what I was told and Matrix games is apparently holding up for some reason....supposed to be fixing the JU 52 issue and several others....however Germans still seem to be doing pretty solid compared to history without JU 52s IMO.

Was a time when Soviet players could play a straight up game without the +1 and it be a good match...now Soviets basically have to have the +1 to even stay in the game is all I have seen when players with skill face each other in the last what 5+ patches things have been this way?

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

HL- ehh you can look at the screen shots some German units are sitting next to soviet units they can easily beat turn after turn....its worth beating them just for the morale bonus for these German units in 1941...not to mention the units Im talking about are German infantry divisions.

As to the Germans suffering....ummm...look at the game map....they still took Moscow and Leningrad...and should take Stalino complex right before blizzard based on the screen shots I see.....in general still a more successful 1941 than the Germans had historically aside from the very middle of the map....and I blame that on lack of aggression lol.

Just my 2 cents as im opinionated lol.

Im waiting for the next patch which was supposedly done a long time ago from what I was told and Matrix games is apparently holding up for some reason....supposed to be fixing the JU 52 issue and several others....however Germans still seem to be doing pretty solid compared to history without JU 52s IMO.

Was a time when Soviet players could play a straight up game without the +1 and it be a good match...now Soviets basically have to have the +1 to even stay in the game is all I have seen when players with skill face each other in the last what 5+ patches things have been this way?

Leningrad was pretty much given to the Germans Chaos45. Not to mention the retreat in front of Moscow lead to Moscow falling pretty darn easy. So as you have your opnion, and I respect that, I have mine and everything that has happened in this game was pretty much given to the Germans. And then the Germans are fighting hard to supply those troops deep in Russia. Under current patch the Soviets can put up a good fight without giving up the farm because of logistics and less worry from HQ BUs. I have played on both sides of this patch and nothing like the older patches.

Now having said that I think this game is a good match up between them. Knowing Brian it should be an interesting fight along with Dave resolve to hold at all cost.

[tyronec]

HL- ehh you can look at the screen shots some German units are sitting next to soviet units they can easily beat turn after turn....its worth beating them just for the morale bonus for these German units in 1941...not to mention the units Im talking about are German infantry divisions.

As to the Germans suffering....ummm...look at the game map....they still took Moscow and Leningrad...and should take Stalino complex right before blizzard based on the screen shots I see.....in general still a more successful 1941 than the Germans had historically aside from the very middle of the map....and I blame that on lack of aggression lol.

Just my 2 cents as im opinionated lol.

Im waiting for the next patch which was supposedly done a long time ago from what I was told and Matrix games is apparently holding up for some reason....supposed to be fixing the JU 52 issue and several others....however Germans still seem to be doing pretty solid compared to history without JU 52s IMO.

Was a time when Soviet players could play a straight up game without the +1 and it be a good match...now Soviets basically have to have the +1 to even stay in the game is all I have seen when players with skill face each other in the last what 5+ patches things have been this way?

I agree with your point on aggression, Axis can do serious damage with continuous infantry attacks by pushing down Soviet morale and further stretching their defences. The Panzers are the killer but in my view the game is quite finely balanced and that extra pressure makes a difference. Further it is not limited by supply as much as the Panzers which helps when you get further East.

There are supply problems with advancing too far towards Voronezh, it is often a black hole area with rail more advanced to north and south. I suffered heavy losses there in my game against Grognard because of being at the supply limit and only got away with it because of Sudden Death.

The Ju 52s are not quite useless if organised properly, probably a little below 50% effective.

Would disagree that the Soviets need the +1, there is no +1 in my game vs Pitaman. Am not that experienced but would judge '+1 Mild' as being much better than 'Full Blizzard' and possibly gives the Soviets an edge, other things being equal.

Great AAR, really enjoying it...

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: tyronec


Would disagree that the Soviets need the +1, there is no +1 in my game vs Pitaman. Am not that experienced but would judge '+1 Mild' as being much better than 'Full Blizzard' and possibly gives the Soviets an edge, other things being equal.

Concur with Tyronec here. Soviets "do not" need the +1 now in the current patch.

[SparkleyTits]

Deleted

[SparkleyTits]

I personally find Soviets have gotten an easier time of things the past couple of patches and I think no bonus and full blizzard is better with current update over +1

If you play a few games without +1 and test around Chaos you will be able to find ways of tiring out the reich before striking in earnest to get those wins instead of relying on the +1 it really is not a needed mechanic to play Soviets currently in my opinion

[BrianG]

+1 maybe should end earlier. Say Nov 1. Certainly not in December

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: BrianG

+1 maybe should end earlier. Say Nov 1. Certainly not in December

I think I understand what you are saying but then again I don't get what you are trying to say. I think you are saying it should end prior to December, not the end of March that it is currently set to end. Correct? Then the sentence "Certainly not in December" do you mean that it should not stop or it should stop before December? This is what is throwing me off. Of course, I'm horrid at English and it may just be me.

[BrianG]

I think I understand what you are saying but then again I don't get what you are trying to say. I think you are saying it should end prior to December, not the end of March that it is currently set to end. Correct? Then the sentence "Certainly not in December" do you mean that it should not stop or it should stop before December? This is what is throwing me off. Of course, I'm horrid at English and it may just be me.

I did not know what the end date was when I posted that comment. Thanks now I know.[:)]

March 42 seems very late to have this +1

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: BrianG

I think I understand what you are saying but then again I don't get what you are trying to say. I think you are saying it should end prior to December, not the end of March that it is currently set to end. Correct? Then the sentence "Certainly not in December" do you mean that it should not stop or it should stop before December? This is what is throwing me off. Of course, I'm horrid at English and it may just be me.

I did not know what the end date was when I posted that comment. Thanks now I know.[:)]

March 42 seems very late to have this +1

Yes, I concur with you.