Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

[warspite1]

Thanks as ever Extraneous [:)]

[warspite1]

4th in the Guadalcanal series; its the carrier Ryujo and the Battle of the Eastern Solomons.

[4337 Ryujo]
.B Engine(s) output: 66,270 hp
.B Top Speed: 29 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 5-inch (127mm), 22 x 25mm guns
.B Aircraft: 48 (Operational Maximum 37)
.B Displacement (full load): 13,650 tons
.B Thickest armour: Light plating only
.P By 1929, the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) had three aircraft carriers
completed: Akagi, Kaga and the experimental Hosho. Under the terms of the 1922
Washington Naval Treaty this left just 30,000 tons available for further aircraft
carrier construction.
.P The IJN's desire for three more carriers meant that they would need to cram a
lot of carrier onto a very limited displacement, and what followed next was
perhaps predictably, a rather unsuccessful design.
.P The brief for Ryujo was to use just 8,000 tons of the remaining allowance and
yet achieve a fast, aircraft carrier that was capable of carrying forty-eight
aircraft. The result was a ship that was highly unstable, and Ryujo required much
work after completion to rectify this inherent instability.
.P Her original design allowed for just a single hangar, but the desire for forty
-eight aircraft meant that a second hangar was belatedly built into the design;
adding greatly to the stability problems mentioned above.
.P Ryujo's hangars were served by two lifts, although one of the lifts was
sufficiently small so as to make it practically unusable. In keeping with
standard practice, no catapult was fitted to assist take-off, but six arrester
wires were available to bring her aircraft down safely. Operationally, the
designed number of aircraft proved too much to handle, and thirty seven aircraft
was considered optimal.
.P Defensive armament was to have been six twin 5-inch anti-aircraft (AA) guns,
but this was reduced to four due to the need to reduce top weight. Close-range AA
weaponry came courtesy of twenty-two 25mm guns.
.P Ryujo had no island structure; the bridge being sited below the forward edge
of the flight deck. At the time of her completion she had sufficient top speed to
operate with IJN's battlefleet, but by the time of the Second World War, 29 knots
had become inadequate for a frontline carrier.
.P Armoured protection was negligible; just light plating being fitted to protect
the machinery and magazine spaces.
.P Ryujo means Prancing Dragon in English.
.P At the outbreak of war in December 1941 Ryujo was part of the 4th Carrier
Division (CarDiv). Operating from Palau, she was a key component in the Japanese
attack on the Philippines (see Amphibious Counter 4435 and Transport Counter
4443). The opening moves of this operation began on the first day of the Pacific
War, and Ryujo's aircraft launched an air strike against Davao that day. Later
that month Ryujo was part of the covering force for the landings by the 15th and
16th Infantry Divisions at Davao, on the large Philippine island of Mindanao.
.P On the 22nd December Ryujo took part in the invasion of Jolo, a small island
halfway between Mindanao and Sarawak. Ryujo was part of the escorting force for
the nine transports that carried men of the 56th Brigade to the island, which was
important as the Japanese intended to use it to base their 23rd Naval Air
Flotilla for the assault on the Dutch East Indies.
.P With the initial landings on the Philippines having been successfully
undertaken, the Japanese sought to finish off the British and Commonwealth forces
in Malaya and Singapore. To aid this operation, Ryujo was deployed in the South
China Sea as part of a covering force protecting the supply convoys to Thailand
and Malaya. Just about everything at this stage of the war went smoothly for the
Japanese and their opponents were falling back everywhere in the face of such
determined opposition. Neither the Philippines nor Malaya were secured before the
Japanese started to look further south; the oil resources of the Dutch East
Indies (NEI).
.P The invasion of the NEI had begun in the eastern islands of the Dutch colony
in December. By the middle of February 1942, the Japanese turned their attention
to the large island of Sumatra, located west of the Malayan peninsular. The first
target was Palembang, on the southeast coast. An invasion convoy set out from
Camranh Bay on the 9th February (see Transport Counter 4447). Ryujo was part of
the covering force for this convoy. As the invasion fleet approached Sumatra,
they came across Allied evacuation convoys and Ryujo's aircraft were used
alongside land based bombers to attack the Allied shipping. Many Allied vessels
were sunk or damaged during these actions.
.P In a vain attempt to stop the Japanese invasion of Sumatra the Allies
despatched a cruiser and destroyer force to intercept the Japanese fleet, but
once again Ryujo's aircraft were extensively used to beat off the Allied ships.
Having found the enemy on the morning of the 14th, Ryujo again launched her
aircraft to attack the Allied ships. Although no Allied warships were sunk in
this engagement, the intensity of the air attacks forced the Allied vessels to
withdraw.
.P For the invasion of Java, at the end of February 1942, the Japanese used two
invasion forces. Ryujo provided air cover to the Western Force that was
responsible for landing troops east and west of Batavia, the capital (see
Amphibious Counter 4439). On the 1st March, her aircraft were used to sink the
American destroyer USS Pope. Pope had been one of the two destroyer escorts to
the British heavy cruiser Exeter along with HMS Encounter, and had escaped after
the two British ships had been sunk by overwhelming forces (see Myoko).
.P After the operations against Java, Ryujo was deployed with the Malay Force to
provide air cover for the invasion of northern Sumatra on the 12th March. She
then provided cover for the operation to reinforce units in Burma and for the
assault against the Andaman Islands two weeks later (see Kashii).
.P During early April, the IJN launched a raid in the Indian Ocean using five of
the six carriers of the 1st Air Fleet. The intention was to destroy the Royal
Navy's Eastern Fleet at anchor in Colombo, but the main portion of that fleet was
hundreds of miles to the west and the raid had only limited effect. Ryujo was
part of Second Fleet for this operation and she led attacks on enemy shipping in
the Bay of Bengal (see Hiryu).
.P Ryujo's next operation was AL, the attack on the Aleutian Islands in the
Northern Pacific. For this operation, that was timed to coincide with the attack
on Midway Island at the start of June 1942, she was part of the Second Carrier
Striking Force, commanded by Rear-Admiral Kakuji Kakuta. Although the Aleutian
islands of Attu and Kiska were occupied by the Japanese, the operation proved
nothing more than an unnecessary dilution of resources from the main task at
hand; the destruction of the American carrier fleet, and at Midway the IJN was to
lose four of their fleet carriers (see ASW Carrier Counter 4430).
.P After the reverse at Midway, the IJN was reorganised. The 3rd Fleet, which now
contained the main carrier force, was placed under the command of Vice-Admiral
Chuichi Nagumo and consisted of the 1st Carrier Squadron: Shokaku, Zuikaku and
Zuiho; the 2nd Carrier Squadron: Junyo, Hiyo and Ryujo; the battleships Hiei and
Kirishima; the heavy cruisers Chikuma, Kumano, Suzuya and Tone; the light cruiser
Nagara and the 10th Destroyer Flotilla.
.P On the 7th August the Americans invaded the island of Guadalcanal in the
Solomons chain. Apart from a naval victory at Savo Island (see Kako) the Japanese
response to the invasion was poor. They underestimated the strength of the
American presence on the island. They were also wrong about how quickly the
Americans could get an airstrip, one that the Japanese had themselves almost
completed prior to the invasion, finished and in working order. As a consequence,
by mid-August, the Americans had established themselves on the island and had air
superiority in the local area. By day, the waters around Guadalcanal were a no-go
area to the Japanese. But the recognition of this American air superiority only
came about as a result of the Battle of the Eastern Solomons, fought on the 24th
August 1942, largely as a result of a Japanese attempt to get a substantial troop
convoy to Guadalcanal.
.P The convoy set out from Truk on the 16th August carrying 1,500 men and their
supplies aboard three transports. They were escorted by the light cruiser Jintsu,
flagship of Rear-Admiral Raizo Tanaka, and ten destroyers.
.P Knowing that there were a number of American carriers operating southeast of
the Solomons, Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander of the Combined Fleet, still
desperately hoped for the "decisive battle" that would win the war for the
Japanese. He agreed to deploy a large number of warships in the Eastern Solomons,
centred around the fleet carriers Zuikaku and Shokaku, in the hope of fighting
such a battle. He was in theory also responsible for the safety of Tanaka's
convoy, although in practice, this element of the operation was very low
priority.
.P The forces deployed were: Third Fleet's Main Body consisting of the carriers
Shokaku (flagship of Vice-Admiral Chuichi Nagumo), Zuikaku, and ten destroyers.
Operating ahead of the carriers was the Vanguard Force under Rear-Admiral Hiroaki
Abe aboard the battleship Hiei with sister ship Kirishima; the heavy cruisers
Kumano, Suzuya and Chikuma; and four destroyers. To guard against a threat to
Nagumo's carriers from the east, the Second Fleet, commanded by Vice-Admiral
Nobutake Kondo, was deployed on the left flank of the Main Body. Kondo had the
heavy cruisers Atago, Haguro, Maya, Myoko and Takao; the light cruiser Yura, the
Seaplane carrier Chitose and six destroyers to hand. Last but not least, to
protect Tanaka's convoy, the IJN deployed the Detached Carrier Striking Force,
commanded by Rear-Admiral Chuichi Hara. Hara had just Ryujo, the heavy cruiser
Tone and two destroyers for this purpose. Ryujo was equipped with twenty-four
Zero fighters and nine Kate torpedo-bombers.
.P For once, the American intelligence network failed them and they had no idea
of the whereabouts of Nagumo's carriers as they entered the Eastern Solomons. The
failure to locate the carriers led to a potentially disastrous decision; thinking
they must still be at anchor in Truk, Rear-Admiral Frank Fletcher allowed one of
his three carriers to leave the Solomons for refuelling. This meant that when the
battle came, the US Navy would actually have around twenty fewer carrier aircraft
available. Fletcher's force for the Battle of the Eastern Solomons was as
follows: the carriers Enterprise and Saratoga, the battleship North Carolina, the
heavy cruisers Minneapolis, New Orleans and Portland, the light cruiser Atlanta
and eleven destroyers.
.P Generally poor weather in the region meant that it was not until late in the
afternoon of the 23rd August that Tanaka's convoy was sighted by American patrol
planes. This poor weather came to the Japanese aid as aircraft flown from
Saratoga failed to locate the convoy and had to return to the airfield at
Guadalcanal.
.P Early on the morning of the 24th both sides launched search aircraft, while
Saratoga's aircraft returned to the carrier after their enforced overnight stay
on Guadalcanal. The Americans found three of the Japanese forces, although
Nagumo's carrier force was not spotted. The Japanese reconnaissance planes on the
other hand were completely unsuccessful.
.P However, it was only in the early afternoon that Fletcher ordered an air
strike against Ryujo as he waited for further proof that Japanese flat-tops
really were in the area. It was only after the order was given and aircraft were
on their way to Ryujo that Fletcher then received reports that Zuikaku and
Shokaku were in the Eastern Solomnons.
.P At around 1520hrs aircraft from Saratoga found Ryujo. With only limited
fighter cover, and few ships around her to mount an adequate AA defence, Ryujo
was doomed. Numerous bomb and torpedo hits ensured there was no chance of saving
the carrier and she was later to sink along with 120 of her officers and crew. By
the time of the attack, Ryujo had already launched twenty-one aircraft to attack
the airstrip on Guadalcanal. This operation, designed to try and keep the
American island-based planes from attacking Tanaka's convoy, caused little damage
however. By the time the surviving aircraft returned to where Ryujo had once
been, there was no choice available to the pilots other than to ditch in the sea.
.P While Ryujo fought her doomed battle for survival, the Japanese had at last
found Enterprise. From the decks of the two fleet carriers two waves of aircraft
were launched; the first numbering thirty-seven and the second thirty-six. The
Japanese attackers were picked up by the enemy's radar and fifty-three Wildcat
fighters were put into the sky to meet them. Still twenty miles from the
carriers, a fierce battle ensued as the Americans sought to beat off the
attacking aircraft before they could reach the ships. Many of the Japanese
attackers got through and launched strikes on Enterprise and North Carolina, but
no attacks were launched against Saratoga as so many Japanese aircraft were shot
down before even reaching the American ships. Enterprise was hit by three bombs
and was badly damaged. However, excellent work by her crew meant that she was
never in danger of being sunk and she would live to fight another day. North
Carolina suffered just one near miss and was only lightly damaged in the attack.
.P The Americans, having sunk one carrier and inflicted the loss of seventy-five
aircraft of all types on the IJN and Army air forces, withdrew that evening after
launching one more attack on the Japanese warships. Little damage was done,
however there was to be more agony in store for Japanese the next day.
.P Not realising they had failed to neutralize American airpower on Guadalcanal
the day before, and thinking the battle had been more successful than it actually
was, Tanaka continued south toward Guadalcanal with his convoy. Early on the
morning of the 25th the Japanese ships were spotted by an American patrol plane
and Wildcats and Dauntless dive-bombers were sent to intercept. The first target
was Tanaka's flagship, Jintsu, which was hit twice by bombs. Tanaka switched his
flag to the destroyer Kagero and ordered Jintsu to sail north to safety. The
transport Kinryu Maru was the next victim, and she was set ablaze by a single
bomb. The destroyer Mutsuki went to her assistance but in so doing became a
target for an attack by a B-17 bomber later that morning. A single bomb struck
her engine room and she sank with the loss of 40 men. After fellow destroyer
Mochizuki had picked up survivors from the two ships Kinryu Maru was scuttled.
The remaining transports and their escorts retreated north; the reinforcements
so desperately needed on Guadalcanal would not be delivered this time around, and
Japanese attempts to get troops to the island would grow ever more desperate in
the months to come (see Jintsu).

[Extraneous]

[4337 Ryujo]
.B Engine(s) output: 66,270 hp
.B Top Speed: 29 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 5-inch (127mm), 22 x 25mm guns
.B Aircraft: 48 (Operational Maximum 37)
.B Displacement (full load): 13,650 tons
.B Thickest armour: Light plating only
.P By 1929, the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) had three aircraft carriers
completed: Akagi, Kaga and the experimental Hosho. Under the terms of the 1922
Washington Naval Treaty this left just 30,000 tons available for further aircraft
carrier construction.
.P The IJN's desire for three more carriers meant that they would need to cram a
lot of carrier onto a very limited displacement, and what followed next was
perhaps predictably, a rather unsuccessful design.
.P The brief for Ryujo was to use just 8,000 tons of the remaining allowance and
yet achieve a fast, aircraft carrier that was capable of carrying forty-eight
aircraft. The result was a ship that was highly unstable, and Ryujo required much
work after completion to rectify this inherent instability.
.P Her original design allowed for just a single hangar, but the desire for forty
-eight aircraft meant that a second hangar was belatedly built into the design;
adding greatly to the stability problems mentioned above.
.P Ryujo's hangars were served by two lifts, although one of the lifts was
sufficiently small so as to make it practically unusable. In keeping with
standard practice, no catapult was fitted to assist take-off, but six arrester
wires were available to bring her aircraft down safely. Operationally, the
designed number of aircraft proved too much to handle, and thirty-seven aircraft
was considered optimal.
.P Defensive armament was to have been six twin 5-inch anti-aircraft (AA) guns,
but this was reduced to four due to the need to reduce top weight. Close-range AA
weaponry came courtesy of twenty-two 25mm guns.
.P Ryujo had no island structure; the bridge being sited below the forward edge
of the flight deck. At the time of her completion she had sufficient top speed to
operate with IJN's battlefleet, but by the time of the Second World War, 29 knots
had become inadequate for a frontline carrier.
.P Armoured protection was negligible; just light plating being fitted to protect
the machinery and magazine spaces.
.P Ryujo means Prancing Dragon in English.
.P At the outbreak of war in December 1941 Ryujo was part of the 4th Carrier
Division (CarDiv). Operating from Palau, she was a key component in the Japanese
attack on the Philippines (see Amphibious Counter 4435 and Transport Counter
4443). The opening moves of this operation began on the first day of the Pacific
War, and Ryujo's aircraft launched an air strike against Davao that day. Later
that month Ryujo was part of the covering force for the landings by the 15th and
16th Infantry Divisions at Davao, on the large Philippine island of Mindanao.
.P On the 22nd December Ryujo took part in the invasion of Jolo, a small island
halfway between Mindanao and Sarawak. Ryujo was part of the escorting force for
the nine transports that carried men of the 56th Brigade to the island, which was
important as the Japanese intended to use it to base their 23rd Naval Air
Flotilla for the assault on the Dutch East Indies.
.P With the initial landings on the Philippines having been successfully
undertaken, the Japanese sought to finish off the British and Commonwealth forces
in Malaya and Singapore. To aid this operation, Ryujo was deployed in the South
China Sea as part of a covering force protecting the supply convoys to Thailand
and Malaya. Just about everything at this stage of the war went smoothly for the
Japanese and their opponents were falling back everywhere in the face of such
determined opposition. Neither the Philippines nor Malaya were secured before the
Japanese started to look further south; the oil resources of the Dutch East
Indies (NEI).
.P The invasion of the NEI had begun in the eastern islands of the Dutch colony
in December. By the middle of February 1942, the Japanese turned their attention
to the large island of Sumatra, located west of the Malayan peninsular. The first
target was Palembang, on the southeast coast. An invasion convoy set out from
Camranh Bay on the 9th February (see Transport Counter 4447). Ryujo was part of
the covering force for this convoy. As the invasion fleet approached Sumatra,
they came across Allied evacuation convoys and Ryujo's aircraft were used
alongside land based bombers to attack the Allied shipping. Many Allied vessels
were sunk or damaged during these actions.
.P In a vain attempt to stop the Japanese invasion of Sumatra the Allies
despatched a cruiser and destroyer force to intercept the Japanese fleet, but
once again Ryujo's aircraft were extensively used to beat off the Allied ships.
Having found the enemy on the morning of the 14th, Ryujo again launched her
aircraft to attack the Allied ships. Although no Allied warships were sunk in
this engagement, the intensity of the air attacks forced the Allied vessels to
withdraw.
.P For the invasion of Java, at the end of February 1942, the Japanese used two
invasion forces. Ryujo provided air cover to the Western Force that was
responsible for landing troops east and west of Batavia, the capital (see
Amphibious Counter 4439). On the 1st March, her aircraft were used to sink the
American destroyer USS Pope. Destroyers USS Pope and HMS Encounter had
been escorting the damaged heavy cruiser HMS Exeter when the British ships
were sunk at the Second battle of the Java Sea (see Myoko).
.P After the operations against Java, Ryujo was deployed with the Malay Force to
provide air cover for the invasion of northern Sumatra on the 12th March. She
then provided cover for the operation to reinforce units in Burma and for the
assault against the Andaman Islands two weeks later (see Kashii).
.P During early April, the IJN launched a raid in the Indian Ocean using five of
the six carriers of the 1st Air Fleet. The intention was to destroy the Royal
Navy's Eastern Fleet at anchor in Colombo, but the main portion of that fleet was
hundreds of miles to the west and the raid had only limited effect. Ryujo was
part of Second Fleet for this operation and she led attacks on enemy shipping in
the Bay of Bengal (see Hiryu).
.P Ryujo's next operation was AL, the attack on the Aleutian Islands in the
Northern Pacific. For this operation, that was timed to coincide with the attack
on Midway Island at the start of June 1942, she was part of the Second Carrier
Striking Force, commanded by Rear-Admiral Kakuji Kakuta. Although the Japanese
occupied the Aleutian islands of Attu and Kiska, the operation proved
nothing more than an unnecessary dilution of resources from the main task at
hand; the destruction of the American carrier fleet, and at Midway the IJN was to
lose four of their fleet carriers (see ASW Carrier Counter 4430).
.P After the reverse at Midway, the IJN was reorganised. The 3rd Fleet, which now
contained the main carrier force, was placed under the command of Vice-Admiral
Chuichi Nagumo and consisted of the 1st Carrier Squadron: Shokaku, Zuikaku and
Zuiho; the 2nd Carrier Squadron: Junyo, Hiyo and Ryujo; the battleships Hiei and
Kirishima; the heavy cruisers Chikuma, Kumano, Suzuya and Tone; the light cruiser
Nagara and the 10th Destroyer Flotilla.
.P On the 7th August the Americans invaded the island of Guadalcanal in the
Solomons chain. Apart from a naval victory at Savo Island (see Kako) the Japanese
response to the invasion was poor. They underestimated the strength of the
American presence on the island. They were also wrong about how quickly the
Americans could get an airstrip, one that the Japanese had themselves almost
completed prior to the invasion, finished and in working order. As a consequence,
by mid-August, the Americans had established themselves on the island and had air
superiority in the local area. By day, the waters around Guadalcanal were a no-go
area to the Japanese. But the recognition of this American air superiority only
came about as a result of the Battle of the Eastern Solomons, fought on the 24th
August 1942, largely as a result of a Japanese attempt to get a substantial troop
convoy to Guadalcanal.
.P The convoy set out from Truk on the 16th August carrying 1,500 men and their
supplies aboard three transports. The light cruiser Jintsu, flagship of
Rear-Admiral Raizo Tanaka, and ten destroyers escorted them.
.P Knowing that there were a number of American carriers operating southeast of
the Solomons, Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander of the Combined Fleet, still
desperately hoped for the "decisive battle" that would win the war for the
Japanese. He agreed to deploy a large number of warships in the Eastern Solomons,
centred around the fleet carriers Zuikaku and Shokaku, in the hope of fighting
such a battle. He was in theory also responsible for the safety of Tanaka's
convoy, although in practice, this element of the operation was very low
priority.
.P The forces deployed were: Third Fleet's Main Body consisting of the carriers
Shokaku (flagship of Vice-Admiral Chuichi Nagumo), Zuikaku, and ten destroyers.
Operating ahead of the carriers was the Vanguard Force under Rear-Admiral Hiroaki
Abe aboard the battleship Hiei with sister ship Kirishima; the heavy cruisers
Kumano, Suzuya and Chikuma; and four destroyers. To guard against a threat to
Nagumo's carriers from the east, the Second Fleet, commanded by Vice-Admiral
Nobutake Kondo, was deployed on the left flank of the Main Body. Kondo had the
heavy cruisers Atago, Haguro, Maya, Myoko and Takao; the light cruiser Yura, the
Seaplane carrier Chitose and six destroyers to hand. Last but not least, to
protect Tanaka's convoy, the IJN deployed the Detached Carrier Striking Force,
commanded by Rear-Admiral Chuichi Hara. Hara had just Ryujo, the heavy cruiser
Tone and two destroyers for this purpose. Ryujo was equipped with twenty-four
Zero fighters and nine Kate torpedo-bombers.
.P For once, the American intelligence network failed them and they had no idea
of the whereabouts of Nagumo's carriers as they entered the Eastern Solomons. The
failure to locate the carriers led to a potentially disastrous decision; thinking
they must still be at anchor in Truk, Rear-Admiral Frank Fletcher allowed one of
his three carriers to leave the Solomons for refuelling. This meant that when the
battle came, the US Navy would actually have around twenty fewer carrier aircraft
available. Fletcher's force for the Battle of the Eastern Solomons was as
follows: the carriers Enterprise and Saratoga, the battleship North Carolina, the
heavy cruisers Minneapolis, New Orleans and Portland, the light cruiser Atlanta
and eleven destroyers.
.P Generally poor weather in the region meant that it was not until late in the
afternoon of the 23rd August that Tanaka's convoy was sighted by American patrol
planes. This poor weather came to the Japanese aid as aircraft flown from
Saratoga failed to locate the convoy and had to return to the airfield at
Guadalcanal.
.P Early on the morning of the 24th both sides launched search aircraft, while
Saratoga's aircraft returned to the carrier after their enforced overnight stay
on Guadalcanal. The Americans found three of the Japanese forces, although
Nagumo's carrier force was not spotted. The Japanese reconnaissance planes on the
other hand were completely unsuccessful.
.P However, it was only in the early afternoon that Fletcher ordered an air
strike against Ryujo as he waited for further proof that Japanese flat-tops
really were in the area. It was only after the order was given and aircraft were
on their way to Ryujo that Fletcher then received reports that Zuikaku and
Shokaku were in the Eastern Solomnons.
.P At around 1520hrs aircraft from Saratoga found Ryujo. With only limited
fighter cover, and few ships around her to mount an adequate AA defence, Ryujo
was doomed. Numerous bomb and torpedo hits ensured there was no chance of saving
the carrier and she was later to sink along with 120 of her officers and crew. By
the time of the attack, Ryujo had already launched twenty-one aircraft to attack
the airstrip on Guadalcanal. This operation, designed to try and keep the
American island-based planes from attacking Tanaka's convoy, caused little damage
however. By the time the surviving aircraft returned to where Ryujo had once
been, there was no choice available to the pilots other than to ditch in the sea.
.P While Ryujo fought her doomed battle for survival, the Japanese had at last
found Enterprise. From the decks of the two fleet carriers two waves of aircraft
were launched; the first numbering thirty-seven and the second thirty-six. The
Japanese attackers were picked up by the enemy's radar and fifty-three Wildcat
fighters were put into the sky to meet them. Still twenty miles from the
carriers, a fierce battle ensued as the Americans sought to beat off the
attacking aircraft before they could reach the ships. Many of the Japanese
attackers got through and launched strikes on Enterprise and North Carolina, but
no attacks were launched against Saratoga as so many Japanese aircraft were shot
down before even reaching the American ships. Enterprise was hit by three bombs
and was badly damaged. However, excellent work by her crew meant that she was
never in danger of being sunk and she would live to fight another day. North
Carolina suffered just one near miss and was only lightly damaged in the attack.
.P The Americans, having sunk one carrier and inflicted the loss of seventy-five
aircraft of all types on the IJN and Army air forces, withdrew that evening after
launching one more attack on the Japanese warships. Little damage was done,
however there was to be more agony in store for Japanese the next day.
.P Not realising they had failed to neutralize American airpower on Guadalcanal
the day before, and thinking the battle had been more successful than it actually
was, Tanaka continued south toward Guadalcanal with his convoy. Early on the
morning of the 25th an American patrol plane spotted the Japanese ships
and Wildcats and Dauntless dive-bombers were sent to intercept. The first target
was Tanaka's flagship, Jintsu, which was hit twice by bombs. Tanaka switched his
flag to the destroyer Kagero and ordered Jintsu to sail north to safety. The
transport Kinryu Maru was the next victim, and she was set ablaze by a single
bomb. The destroyer Mutsuki went to her assistance but in so doing became a
target for an attack by a B-17 bomber later that morning. A single bomb struck
her engine room and she sank with the loss of 40 men. After fellow destroyer
Mochizuki had picked up survivors from the two ships Kinryu Maru was scuttled.
The remaining transports and their escorts retreated north; the reinforcements
so desperately needed on Guadalcanal would not be delivered this time around, and
Japanese attempts to get troops to the island would grow ever more desperate in
the months to come (see Jintsu).



April 10, 1941 ~ Flagship of 4th Carrier Division, 1st Air Fleet

Defensive armament was to have been been six twin 5-inch anti-aircraft (AA) guns,
but this was reduced to four due to the need to reduce top weight.
Close-range AA weaponry came courtesy of twenty-two 25mm guns.

Wikipedia
Armament:
8 × 127 mm (5 in) guns,
4 × 25 mm anti-aircraft guns,
24 × 13 mm machine guns

Nihon Kaigun (Combined Fleet)
Armament:
8 x 5"/40
4 x 25mm/60
24 x 13mm/76

World War II Database
Armament:
8x100mm
4x25mm
24x13mm

My Post#: 592

CVL Ryûjô ("Prancing Dragon") (1933-1942) ex-tender Taigei

Displacement: 12,732 tons Dimensions: 167 x 20.32 x 5.56 meters. Propulsion: Steam turbines, 6 boilers, 2 shafts, 65,000 hp (48.5 MW) Speed: 29 knots (54 km/h) Range: 10,000 nautical miles at 14 knots (19,000 km at 26 km/h) Complement: 924. Armament: 8 x 5 inch (127mm) AA guns (in dual mounts), 4 x 25mm AA guns, 24 x 13mm AA guns. Aircraft: 38

Ryûjô was laid down in 1929, launched in 1931 and commissioned in 1933. She first saw action in the Second Sino-Japanese War supporting land operations of the Japanese Army in China. Where her aircraft complement consisted of 27 aircraft. During World War II, she was the flagship of Carrier Division 4. In 1941 she supported several landings in the Philippines. In 1942 she supported the conquest of Malaya and attacked the Allied forces around Java. She was part of the Indian Ocean raid during April her and her escort were credited with the sinking of 23 merchant ships. She was part of the Northern Force that attached the Aleutians where one of her Mutsubishi A6M Zero's crashed. The intelligence gained from this crash helped the United States to develop the F6F Hellcat.

During the Battle of the Eastern Solomon’s she was sunk by U.S. carrier aircraft with a loss of 120 of the crew.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Defensive armament was to have been been six twin 5-inch anti-aircraft (AA) guns,
but this was reduced to four due to the need to reduce top weight.
Close-range AA weaponry came courtesy of twenty-two 25mm guns.

Wikipedia
Armament:
8 × 127 mm (5 in) guns,
4 × 25 mm anti-aircraft guns,
24 × 13 mm machine guns

Warspite1

I thought the need to add the word twin after four was superfluous, but it seems not, so I will add twin; hence the 8 x 5-inch.

My source states she began with two twin 25mm as per the above, but six triple 25mm were added at the start of the war - thus 22 x 25mm. I will clarify this too.

[Extraneous]

[:D] Patrice (Post #: 593) please note as I posted (Post #: 594) the names are being edited. [:D]

[warspite1]

Please see USS Wasp - one of the major US warships that saw action in both the Atlantic and the Pacific.

[4054 Wasp]
.B Engine(s) output: 70,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 29.5 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 5-inch (127mm), 16 x 1.1-inch (28mm) guns
.B Aircraft: 70 (in 1942)
.B Displacement (full load): 18,450 tons
.B Thickest armour: 2-inch (belt)
.P The Washington Naval Treaty of 1922 had given the United States Navy (USN)
an allowance of 69,000 tons to build new aircraft carriers. The original plan was
for five ships, totalling 13,800 each, the first of which would be USS Ranger.
However, even before Ranger had been completed, it was realised that she was too
small, too lightly armoured and too slow to be an effective carrier.
.P This realisation led to the construction of two, larger, Yorktown-class
carriers, displacing 19,800 tons each. The Yorktowns proved to be far more useful
ships. The only problem was that after their construction, the USN only had
14,000 tons of allowance left to use on a fourth carrier. As a consequence this
next carrier was designed as an "improved" Ranger-class, that incorporated as
many features from the Yorktowns as was possible given the tonnage constraints.
.P Wasp was fitted with a full length flight-deck, and like the Yorktowns, she
had three catapults fitted to assist aircraft take-off, with one of these mounted
in the hangar deck. She had eight arrester wires to assist aircraft landing.
.P She had one large hangar, capable of carrying seventy-six aircraft, although
a slightly reduced number was typically carried during her final months in the
Pacific. This hangar was served by two lifts.
.P Defensive weaponry was improved when compared to Ranger, with eight 5-inch
dual-purpose guns supported by four, quadruple 1.1-inch close-range anti-aircraft
(AA) guns. The latter weapons were to be removed and she received both 40mm and
20mm guns prior to her sinking in 1942.
.P The lack of tonnage available meant there was little that could be done to
rectify Ranger's lack of armour protection. Wasp had just a 2-inch belt for
vertical protection and 1.25-inch armour protecting the hangar area. She was also
protected against torpedo attack through extensive compartmentalisation.
.P Her top speed, at 29.5 knots, was the same as Ranger.
.P Wasp, named after the insect, was a common name in the USN and the Continental
navy before it. Wasp was first used for a schooner that fought in the Continental
navy at the time of the War of Independence.
.P USS Wasp was completed in April 1940 and was initially stationed on the East
Coast of the United States.
.P From May 1941 Wasp was based at the new American naval base in Bermuda as part
of the Central Atlantic Neutrality Patrol. Although not officially at war with
Germany, by mid-1941 the United States were becoming ever more belligerent in
their defence of merchant shipping in the Atlantic, and at this time, Wasp
usually operated in company with a heavy cruiser and two or more destroyers while
undertaking neutrality patrols.
.P Then, in July of that year, the Americans agreed to take-over the garrisoning
of Iceland from the British. Wasp was part of a task force sent to the island to
undertake this operation (see Quincy).
.P Wasp returned to Bermuda the following month and took part in a search for
German surface raiders, supposedly operating in the Central Atlantic. A number of
US warships were put to sea but the report proved to be false.
.P Wasp was to spend the remaining months before the Japanese attack on Pearl
Harbor switching back and forth between Bermuda and the North Atlantic. She was
sent to Iceland in September in response to reports that the German battleship
Tirpitz was about to make a sortie into the North Atlantic, although once again,
this proved not to be the case.
.P December 7th 1941. When the Japanese attacked the US Pacific Fleet at Pearl
Harbor, Wasp was in Bermuda. Shortly after the attack, Germany declared war on
the United States and thus the die was cast. The United States was now fully
involved in both the war in the Atlantic and the Pacific. Wasp remained on the
East Coast.
.P Having agreed to adopt a "Germany First" approach to defeating the Axis, the
Americans quickly began to send troops and supplies to the United Kingdom. In
January 1942 Wasp was part of the initial escort for troop convoy AT10, along
with the battleship Texas and the cruisers Tuscaloosa and Wichita. This convoy
brought almost 4,000 troops from the 34th Mountain Division to the UK.
.P In March, while heading to the naval base at Norfolk, Virginia, Wasp collided
with the destroyer USS Stack but fortunately Wasp suffered only minimal damage.
Repair work was carried out and Wasp then joined the small but powerful Task
Force (TF) 39 (later TF99) that was sent to the British main anchorage at Scapa
Flow, north of Scotland (see USS Washington). TF99 was created to supplement the
British Home Fleet in order to strengthen the escorts covering the convoys being
sent to the Soviet Union.
.P However, when she arrived in the United Kingdom, Wasp suddenly found herself
being prepared for a very different operation. The British-owned Mediterranean
island of Malta had been under Axis air attack since Italy declared war on the
British and French in June 1940. By April 1942 supplies of all kinds, not least
fighter aircraft, were in short supply on the island; in fact, Malta's fighter
defences were almost exhausted. The Royal Navy had been reinforcing Malta with
aircraft flown from its aircraft carriers, but for a variety of reasons there
were no Royal Navy carriers available at this time. After a personal appeal for
assistance from the British Prime Minister to the American President, the USN
made the Wasp available for a ferry mission.
.P Wasp embarked forty-seven Royal Air Force Spitfire fighters and sailed for the
Mediterranean on the 14th April. She was escorted by the battlecruiser HMS Renown
and four British and two US destroyers for this operation; code-named Calendar.
These ships were joined by the AA cruisers Cairo and Charybdis at Gibraltar, and
together, they sailed east into the Western Mediterranean. They reached the
flying-off point on the 20th and the aircraft took-off from Wasp's flight-deck.
All but one Spitfire made it safely to Malta.
.P Such was the intensity of the Axis air offensive that, within less than one
week, only six of the newly arrived Spitfires remained operational. As a result,
the same force was used for a follow-up operation; Bowery, at the end of April.
Wasp, which had returned to the UK after Calendar, embarked a further fifty
Spitfires on the 29th and sailed for Gibraltar once again. Here the small British
carrier Eagle, embarked a further seventeen aircraft. The aircraft were flown off
on the 9th May, with four aircraft failing to make it safely to Malta. Upon
return of the fleet at Gibraltar, Wasp was escorted by Renown back to the UK.
.P Meanwhile, in the Pacific, the USN lost the carrier Lexington at the Battle
of the Coral Sea in May, and Yorktown at Midway a month later. As a result, Wasp
was badly needed in the Pacific. She returned to the US for a refit, following
which she became part of TF18 along with the battleship North Carolina, the
heavy cruisers Quincy, San Francisco, Vincennes; the light cruiser San Juan, and
six destroyers. TF18 was commanded by Rear-Admiral Leigh Noyes who flew his flag
in Wasp.
.P Wasp's time in the Pacific was to be brief. Following the successful battle of
Midway, in which four Japanese fleet carriers were sunk, the Americans brought
forward their plans to take the war back to Japan. At the start of August Wasp
was part of the covering force for the invasion fleet sent to capture the Solomon
Islands of Guadalcanal and Tulagi (see Transport Counter 4247). But the
successful landings on these islands was just the start of a six-month campaign
that ultimately saw the Japanese retreat from the Solomons having suffered
unsustainable losses in men, ships and aircraft.
.P While the numerous battles for Guadalcanal were being fought on the ground, in
the air, and at sea, Wasp remained in the Solomons area along with the carriers
Saratoga and Enterprise. These carriers' aircraft helped to ensure the safe
arrival of reinforcements and supplies to Guadalcanal.
.P Meanwhile Admiral Isoruko Yamamoto, the Commander of the Japanese Combined
Fleet continued in his efforts to bring the USN to the "decisive battle". In late
August, the battle of the Eastern Solomons pitted three Japanese carriers against
two American. But Wasp was not to take part in the battle. American intelligence
and reconnaissance had failed to pick up the presence of the Japanese carriers
and Noyes was ordered to sail to the rear to re-fuel just as the battle was about
to start. She therefore missed the encounter; a battle that saw the light carrier
Ryujo sunk and USS Enterprise badly damaged.
.P The end for Wasp came less than a month later. On the 15th September she was
providing air cover for a troop convoy heading to Guadalcanal when she was found
by the Japanese submarine I-19. I-19 fired six torpedoes and two of these struck
Wasp's starboard side, causing fires to rage throughout the ship very quickly.
Less than an hour after the torpedoes struck, the order to abandon ship was
given. Wasp however, burning furiously, remained afloat. She was scuttled later
that evening. 173 officers and men were killed and over 400 wounded.

[warspite1]

TEST - How weird. I posted the Wasp write-up yesterday, but although it showed up, the last post was showing as Extraneous' from a few days ago...... Oh well sorted now.

[Extraneous]

[4054 Wasp]
.B Engine(s) output: 70,000 hp
.B Top Speed: 29.5 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 5-inch (127mm), 16 x 1.1-inch (28mm) guns
.B Aircraft: 70 (in 1942)
.B Displacement (full load): 18,450 tons
.B Thickest armour: 2-inch (belt)
.P The Washington Naval Treaty of 1922 had given the United States Navy (USN)
an allowance of 69,000 tons to build new aircraft carriers. The original plan was
for five ships, totalling 13,800 each, the first of which would be USS Ranger.
However, even before Ranger had been completed, it was realised that she was too
small, too lightly armoured and too slow to be an effective carrier.
.P This realisation led to the construction of two, larger, Yorktown-class
carriers, displacing 19,800 tons each. The Yorktowns proved to be far more useful
ships. The only problem was that after their construction, the USN only had
14,000 tons of allowance left to use on a fourth carrier. As a consequence this
next carrier was designed as an "improved" Ranger-class that incorporated as
many features from the Yorktowns as was possible given the tonnage constraints.
.P Wasp was fitted with a full length flight-deck, and like the Yorktowns, she
had three catapults fitted to assist aircraft take-off, with one of these mounted
in the hangar deck. She had eight arrester wires to assist aircraft landing.
.P She had one large hangar, capable of carrying seventy-six aircraft, although
a slightly reduced number was typically carried during her final months in the
Pacific. This hangar was served by two lifts.
.P Defensive weaponry was improved when compared to Ranger, with eight 5-inch
dual-purpose guns supported by four, quadruple 1.1-inch close-range anti-aircraft
(AA) guns. The latter weapons were to be removed and she received both 40mm and
20mm guns prior to her sinking in 1942.
.P The lack of tonnage available meant there was little that could be done to
rectify Ranger's lack of armour protection. Wasp had just a 2-inch belt for
vertical protection and 1.25-inch armour protecting the hangar area. She was also
protected against torpedo attack through extensive compartmentalisation.
.P Her top speed, at 29.5 knots, was the same as Ranger.
.P Wasp, named after the insect, was a common name in the USN and the Continental
navy before it. Wasp was first used for a schooner that fought in the Continental
navy at the time of the War of Independence.
.P USS Wasp was completed in April 1940 and was initially stationed on the East
Coast of the United States.
.P From May 1941 Wasp was based at the new American naval base in Bermuda as part
of the Central Atlantic Neutrality Patrol. Although not officially at war with
Germany, by mid-1941 the United States were becoming ever more belligerent in
their defence of merchant shipping in the Atlantic, and at this time, Wasp
usually operated in company with a heavy cruiser and two or more destroyers while
undertaking neutrality patrols.
.P Then, in July of that year, the Americans agreed to take-over the garrisoning
of Iceland from the British. Wasp was part of a task force sent to the island to
undertake this operation (see Quincy).
.P Wasp returned to Bermuda the following month and took part in a search for
German surface raiders, supposedly operating in the Central Atlantic. A number of
US warships were put to sea but the report proved to be false.
.P Wasp was to spend the remaining months before the Japanese attack on Pearl
Harbor switching back and forth between Bermuda and the North Atlantic. She was
sent to Iceland in September in response to reports that the German battleship
Tirpitz was about to make a sortie into the North Atlantic, although once again,
this proved not to be the case.
.P December 7th 1941. When the Japanese attacked the US Pacific Fleet at Pearl
Harbor, Wasp was in Bermuda. Shortly after the attack, Germany declared war on
the United States and thus the die was cast. The United States was now fully
involved in both the war in the Atlantic and the Pacific. Wasp remained on the
East Coast.
.P Having agreed to adopt a "Germany First" approach to defeating the Axis, the
Americans quickly began to send troops and supplies to the United Kingdom. In
January 1942 Wasp was part of the initial escort for troop convoy AT10, along
with the battleship Texas and the cruisers Tuscaloosa and Wichita. This convoy
brought almost 4,000 troops from the 34th Mountain Division to the UK.
.P In March, while heading to the naval base at Norfolk, Virginia, Wasp collided
with the destroyer USS Stack but fortunately Wasp suffered only minimal damage.
Repair work was carried out and Wasp then joined the small but powerful Task
Force (TF) 39 (later TF99) that was sent to the British main anchorage at Scapa
Flow, north of Scotland (see USS Washington). TF99 was created to supplement the
British Home Fleet in order to strengthen the escorts covering the convoys being
sent to the Soviet Union.
.P However, when she arrived in the United Kingdom, Wasp suddenly found herself
being prepared for a very different operation. The British-owned Mediterranean
island of Malta had been under Axis air attack since Italy declared war on the
British and French in June 1940. By April 1942 supplies of all kinds, not least
fighter aircraft were in short supply on the island; in fact, Malta's fighter
defences were almost exhausted. The Royal Navy had been reinforcing Malta with
aircraft flown from its aircraft carriers, but for a variety of reasons there
were no Royal Navy carriers available at this time. After a personal appeal for
assistance from the British Prime Minister to the American President, the USN
made the Wasp available for a ferry mission.
.P Wasp embarked forty-seven Royal Air Force Spitfire fighters and sailed for the
Mediterranean on the 14th April. She was escorted by the battlecruiser HMS Renown
and four British and two US destroyers for this operation; code-named Calendar.
The AA Light cruisers Cairo and Charybdis joined these ships at Gibraltar, and
together, they sailed east into the Western Mediterranean. They reached the
flying-off point on the 20th and the aircraft took-off from Wasp's flight deck.
All but one Spitfire made it safely to Malta.
.P Such was the intensity of the Axis air offensive that, within less than one
week, only six of the newly arrived Spitfires remained operational. As a result,
the same force was used for a follow-up operation; Bowery, at the end of April.
Wasp, which had returned to the UK after Calendar, embarked a further fifty
Spitfires on the 29th and sailed for Gibraltar once again. Here the small British
carrier Eagle, embarked a further seventeen aircraft. The aircraft were flown off
on the 9th May, with four aircraft failing to make it safely to Malta. Upon
return of the fleet at Gibraltar, Wasp was escorted by Renown back to the UK.
.P Meanwhile, in the Pacific, the USN lost the carrier Lexington at the Battle
of the Coral Sea in May, and Yorktown at Midway a month later. As a result, Wasp
was badly needed in the Pacific. She returned to the US for a refit, following
which she became part of TF18 along with the battleship North Carolina, the
heavy cruisers Quincy, San Francisco, Vincennes; the light cruiser San Juan, and
six destroyers. Rear-Admiral Leigh Noyes who flew his flag in Wasp commanded
TF18.
.P Wasp's time in the Pacific was to be brief. Following the successful battle of
Midway, in which four Japanese fleet carriers were sunk, the Americans brought
forward their plans to take the war back to Japan. At the start of August Wasp
was part of the covering force for the invasion fleet sent to capture the Solomon
Islands of Guadalcanal and Tulagi (see Transport Counter 4247). But the
successful landings on these islands was just the start of a six-month campaign
that ultimately saw the Japanese retreat from the Solomons having suffered
unsustainable losses in men, ships and aircraft.
.P While the numerous battles for Guadalcanal were being fought on the ground, in
the air, and at sea, Wasp remained in the Solomons area along with the carriers
Saratoga and Enterprise. These carriers' aircraft helped to ensure the safe
arrival of reinforcements and supplies to Guadalcanal.
.P Meanwhile Admiral Isoruko Yamamoto, the Commander of the Japanese Combined
Fleet continued in his efforts to bring the USN to the "decisive battle". In late
August, the battle of the Eastern Solomons pitted three Japanese carriers against
two American. But Wasp was not to take part in the battle. American intelligence
and reconnaissance had failed to pick up the presence of the Japanese carriers
and Noyes was ordered to sail to the rear to re-fuel just as the battle was about
to start. She therefore missed the encounter; a battle that saw the light carrier
Ryujo sunk and USS Enterprise badly damaged.
.P The end for Wasp came less than a month later. On the 15th September she was
providing air cover for a troop convoy heading to Guadalcanal when the Japanese
submarine I-19 found her. I-19 fired six torpedoes and two of these struck
Wasp's starboard side, causing fires to rage throughout the ship very quickly.
Less than an hour after the torpedoes struck, the order to abandon ship was
given. Wasp however, burning furiously, remained afloat. She was scuttled later
that evening. 173 officers and men were killed and over 400 wounded.

[brian brian]

I've never heard of a 34th Mountain Division....I hope there is something on that in the write-up for the hypothetical US MTN corps ... ?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I've never heard of a 34th Mountain Division....I hope there is something on that in the write-up for the hypothetical US MTN corps ... ?

There is no 34th mountain division in the game for any country. Do you have the number correct?

[brian brian]

from the Wasp write-up:

January 1942 Wasp was part of the initial escort for troop convoy AT10, along
with the battleship Texas and the cruisers Tuscaloosa and Wichita. This convoy
brought almost 4,000 troops from the 34th Mountain Division to the UK.


I thought the 10th Mountain was the first such division for the US Army, and was formed during the war, i.e. after January '42.... ???

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

from the Wasp write-up:

January 1942 Wasp was part of the initial escort for troop convoy AT10, along
with the battleship Texas and the cruisers Tuscaloosa and Wichita. This convoy
brought almost 4,000 troops from the 34th Mountain Division to the UK.


I thought the 10th Mountain was the first such division for the US Army, and was formed during the war, i.e. after January '42.... ???

WIF FE has/identifies very few divisions by name. Those are the only ones which we are considering for unit writeups. Sorry.

[brian brian]

I am more interested to just know about this other division, it doesn't have to be in the game. It kind of jumps out at you in the write-up, and I think I wouldn't be the only reader, thinking.....huh? And then start by looking at the US land unit write-ups in their wonderful new wargame they just purchased...

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I've never heard of a 34th Mountain Division....I hope there is something on that in the write-up for the hypothetical US MTN corps ... ?

Warspite1

It looks like the division should be the 34th Infantry, not Mountain. According to wiki the 34th came to the UK in Jan 42 so this fits.

[Extraneous]

Arnold Hague Convoy Database: Convoy AT.10 departed NYC on 15 January 1942 arrives Londonderry on 27 January 1942.

34th Mountain Division should be 34th Infantry Division

In common with other U.S. Army divisions the 34th was reorganised from a square to a triangular division before seeing combat. The division's three infantry regiments became the 133rd, 135th, and 168th Infantry Regiments.

The first contingent embarked at Brooklyn on 14 January 1942 and sailed from New York the next day. The initial group of 4,508 stepped ashore at 12:15 hrs on 26 January 1942 at Dufferin Quay, Belfast commanded by Major-General Russell P. Hartle. They were met by a delegation including the Governor General (Duke of Abercorn), the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland (John Miller Andrews), the Commander of British Troops in Ulster (General G. E. W. Franklyn), and the Secretary of State for Air (Sir Archibald Sinclair).

[brian brian]

speaking of MTN divisions, on the Yahoo list this week I learned that there are 2 5th Mountain Divisions in the German Force Pool; the 2nd one appeared on the Asia in Flames counter-sheet I think. The second one is the glider / air-landing division. I had never noticed they both used the number "5". So I'm curious, what did MWiF do about this odd little fact? I'm not sure what to do about it with my cardboard counters. Should the second one be used only? Or should the Germans get both?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

speaking of MTN divisions, on the Yahoo list this week I learned that there are 2 5th Mountain Divisions in the German Force Pool; the 2nd one appeared on the Asia in Flames counter-sheet I think. The second one is the glider / air-landing division. I had never noticed they both used the number "5". So I'm curious, what did MWiF do about this odd little fact? I'm not sure what to do about it with my cardboard counters. Should the second one be used only? Or should the Germans get both?

Warspite1

One is 5th Mountain and the other is 5th SS Mountain so yes you get both as these are different units.

I can't see that one is air-landing - they both have the regular Mountain symbol. Maybe I have an old counter set?

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: brian brian

speaking of MTN divisions, on the Yahoo list this week I learned that there are 2 5th Mountain Divisions in the German Force Pool; the 2nd one appeared on the Asia in Flames counter-sheet I think. The second one is the glider / air-landing division. I had never noticed they both used the number "5". So I'm curious, what did MWiF do about this odd little fact? I'm not sure what to do about it with my cardboard counters. Should the second one be used only? Or should the Germans get both?

Warspite1

One is 5th Mountain and the other is 5th SS Mountain so yes you get both as these are different units.

I can't see that one is air-landing - they both have the regular Mountain symbol. Maybe I have an old counter set?

There is a 5 MTN DIV, a 5 AIR LANDING DIV, and a 6 SS MTN DIV. There is no 5 SS MTN DIV.

[Froonp]

5 AIR LANDING

[Froonp]

5 MTN