Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side

[John 3rd]

Thanks Guys. Quite considerate things to say.

Don't worry Hans whatever you Posted I did not see.

The show shall go on just need some time to process and adjust. Cannot really do that until I have broken contact with the enemy so we'll see.

Got several PMs from other players who spoke of how highly they regard these AARs and the value within them for both sides. Sometimes I truly forget the great value of these for beginning and advanced players. Appreciate the time taken by all those who have taken the time to write here or through a PM. It greatly helps with morale.

I had a horrible night of sleep and am now headed in for a 10 hour shift at the store. No turns until this evening.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: njp72

I often find myself in strong agreement with Lowpe on all of his comments and assessments when it comes to the Empire.

Despite the apparent one sided thrashing, I think you will be amazed at how resilient your forces are and how rapidly they will bounce back. Give it a week or two and you feel much better, besides you do appear to have downed quite a few of his aircraft.

With regards to identified issues and tactical lessons from this clash the critical one (in my humble opinion) I believe is never operate any carrier forces outside LBA search and CAP once you reach 43. The risk is never worth the reward and unfortunately Allied strike packages escorted by Hellcats always get through and Japanese CVs always burn.

Again in my opinion, once you hit 43 your carrier assets become of strategic value and need to be well protected, positioned out of observation and readied for immediate local counter attacks on critical sectors (forget tactical victories or assaulting the odd convoy). Of course even being unsighted will give an Allied player pause before any operation.

You played a very good game and your success in Sumatra was very significant, especially in VPs harvested.

Well played and keep up the good work.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Not much has gone right with this dismal performance. We need some self-examination and specific work on correcting problems.

Identified Issues:
1. There are a lot of questions I have regarding the fight and, particularly, the horrific raid coordination. I wonder if having so many CVs in each TF was the real culprit? I've never worked on this scale before. My creation of the CV TF was predicated on roughly 400 planes as Kido Butai was at the start of the war. Perhaps that is a total error.

Opinions on this? What do JFB's have to say from their experiences?

2. Air Search seems to be taken care of but it certainly wasn't. Someone mentioned having night searching going on as well. I've never done that--excepting bombardments--is this something useful as well?

3. We've already settled the CVE reaction issue. THANKS!

I can do nothing for how Dan likes to throw of TFs to soak up and pulverize strikes at non-important shipping. The key here is the learn from the fight so that myself and others can benefit.

Even though we're still trying to get away let us look to a post-battle briefing and discussion.

I have turns saved for the three previous days so we can look at just about anything.

I love this post, and literally have tons to say and to learn about it. But, man oh man, why bother if your going to drop the game.

You have almost made 44 with an intact KB...delivered huge setbacks to the Allies...stay with the game and you will become a better player. I speak from experience, I think.

Why thank you NJP, since I have ruthlessly stolen your ideas and made them mine -- this comes as no surprise![:D]

[John 3rd]

Idea STEALER!

I am going to adopt that night search strategy. SEE I am a idea THIEF too...

Wrote Dan that once I can extricate myself from this disaster I need a couple of days to re-organize and see what is left. Am sure he will be good with that.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Idea STEALER!

I am going to adopt that night search strategy. SEE I am a idea THIEF too...

Wrote Dan that once I can extricate myself from this disaster I need a couple of days to re-organize and see what is left. Am sure he will be good with that.

Having had this happen to me, the worst thing is squadrons destroyed and all the splinters everywhere. Then, here is the potential buyback of destroyed squadrons which is very expensive.

In 1st qtr 44 the IJAAF really gets a huge size increase in fighters -- which helps a lot. But you need to build a ton of Frank A's -- can't stress that enough.

[pws1225]

Frank-r is nice too if you have invested in the R&D. It's a bit more maneuverable, has a greater rate of climb, and has a higher ceiling. As with the A model, with two CL canons, both are very good at whacking 4Es. [8D]

[JohnDillworth]

Sorry John, I'm just the messenger. The Emperor would like to see you in his office.[8|]

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Idea STEALER!

I am going to adopt that night search strategy. SEE I am a idea THIEF too...

Wrote Dan that once I can extricate myself from this disaster I need a couple of days to re-organize and see what is left. Am sure he will be good with that.

Ok, now that's it's completely out in the open, this is what I had posted before:

"Been thinking about the night search issue and someone mentioned DL.

As I understand it DL is reset at the beginning of each turn and you have to re-establish it each turn.

As I also understand it DL builds up over the course of the turn with each new siting.

It makes a whole lot of sense that getting a DL established in the night phase establishes a base to build upon in the day phase.

Unless DL is reset at the beginning of each phase, which is not what I understand to be the case, starting the effort to build DL during the night phase may be a new tactic we will all be employing soon."


I didn't feel that it violated OpSec as Obvert had already broached the subject, but I deleted the content anyway when some one pointed out that it might be a violation.

I've never been big on concealing insights into game mechanics as some sort of closely held secret.

I strongly believe that both sides should be as aware of game mechanics and possibilities as possible.

As a community of players we may have stumbled onto something none, or at least few, of us had ever considered before.

Exploiting night search may be a bit unrealistic, but it is, after all, a game and when playing competitively players can and will do unrealistic things that the game mechanics allow.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Idea STEALER!

I am going to adopt that night search strategy. SEE I am a idea THIEF too...

Wrote Dan that once I can extricate myself from this disaster I need a couple of days to re-organize and see what is left. Am sure he will be good with that.

Ok, now that's it's completely out in the open, this is what I had posted before:

"Been thinking about the night search issue and someone mentioned DL.

As I understand it DL is reset at the beginning of each turn and you have to re-establish it each turn.

As I also understand it DL builds up over the course of the turn with each new siting.

It makes a whole lot of sense that getting a DL established in the night phase establishes a base to build upon in the day phase.

Unless DL is reset at the beginning of each phase, which is not what I understand to be the case, starting the effort to build DL during the night phase may be a new tactic we will all be employing soon."


I didn't feel that it violated OpSec as Obvert had already broached the subject, but I deleted the content anyway when some one pointed out that it might be a violation.

I've never been big on concealing insights into game mechanics as some sort of closely held secret.

I strongly believe that both sides should be as aware of game mechanics and possibilities as possible.

As a community of players we may have stumbled onto something none, or at least few, of us had ever considered before.

Exploiting night search may be a bit unrealistic, but it is, after all, a game and when playing competitively players can and will do unrealistic things that the game mechanics allow.

Game mechanics should be shared. [&o]

[ny59giants]

John lost in the first phase of any battle - Intel or lack of it. Learning about how night search can aid the DL in the daytime is just getting a better understanding of how the game engine works Hans. No OpSec violation in my book.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Idea STEALER!

I am going to adopt that night search strategy. SEE I am a idea THIEF too...

Wrote Dan that once I can extricate myself from this disaster I need a couple of days to re-organize and see what is left. Am sure he will be good with that.

Ok, now that's it's completely out in the open, this is what I had posted before:

"Been thinking about the night search issue and someone mentioned DL.

As I understand it DL is reset at the beginning of each turn and you have to re-establish it each turn.

As I also understand it DL builds up over the course of the turn with each new siting.

It makes a whole lot of sense that getting a DL established in the night phase establishes a base to build upon in the day phase.

Unless DL is reset at the beginning of each phase, which is not what I understand to be the case, starting the effort to build DL during the night phase may be a new tactic we will all be employing soon."


I didn't feel that it violated OpSec as Obvert had already broached the subject, but I deleted the content anyway when some one pointed out that it might be a violation.

I've never been big on concealing insights into game mechanics as some sort of closely held secret.

I strongly believe that both sides should be as aware of game mechanics and possibilities as possible.

As a community of players we may have stumbled onto something none, or at least few, of us had ever considered before.

Exploiting night search may be a bit unrealistic, but it is, after all, a game and when playing competitively players can and will do unrealistic things that the game mechanics allow.

Game mechanics should be shared. [&o]

No, this is fine in my book. I read both AARs and post freely about both Allied and Japanese game mechanics. My feeling is that any player can benefit from correct mechanics. I just try to be general about it and avoid tactical and strategic talk if I am reading both. That said, I know I might have goofed up a few times over the years. It is hard to keep my mouth shut. But that is the price that comes with writing excellent AARs...I also welcome anyone calling me out if they think I am blabbing too much.

[AcePylut]

Sorry for my harsh words yesterday.

You haven't lost until there are nukes raining on Hiroshima or the US Marines are marching through Tokyo.

Until then - BANZAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [:)]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Sorry for my harsh words yesterday.

You haven't lost until there are nukes raining on Hiroshima or the US Marines are marching through Tokyo.

Until then - BANZAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [:)]

I think you could possibly lose Tokyo and still not lose the game. Same with nukes.

Course it would take a lot of doing!

[John 3rd]

What I wouldn't give for a tactical nuke right now in our game!

Had a rough night last night. Woke up at 1:30am and thought I was having a heart attack. Had this massive pressure on my chest. I started to panic and then I burped and the pain went down some. STUPID. Had heartburn and it made things very hard to sleep through. Felt like an idiot for panicking but it sure scared the tar out of me! Had the PLEASURE of getting up and working 7am-7pm before coming home tonight.

Wanted to run the turn but felt I needed to keep my games going with Michael and Herbie. They each got their turn. That Herbie is a NUT! He is doing crazy stuff and I am utterly enjoying it. Anyway...

Wrote Dan a note and promised to get the next turn to him in the morning. That is the plan.

AcePylut: Don't worry about anything. I didn't take anything personal from the commentary here. Everyone was simply voicing their thoughts and opinions. Perfectly fine.

[Sangeli]

I know I'm a little late to the show here but I think its battles like these that make this game so good. The unpredictability but still within the realm of realism is what makes this game unique. Had this been a real life battle, you'd probably hear some explanation how the Japanese were unable to locate the Allied fleet as quickly as the reverse because of Allied planes equipped with radar. Or maybe its that a series of miscommunication delayed the reaction of one fleet but not the other. Of course the game doesn't say what happened but we do now in real life things like this happened and led to this type of result.

[njp72]

I completely agree Sangeli

In some ways what we have all witnessed here between two great players was a mini Midway.

A large undetected US CV fleet appearing on the flank of a surprised Japanese task force in deep uncharted waters and far from home.

A thousand reasons could have attributed to this fog of war event occurring and all based on historical events, could easily have happened (human error on the search sectors, mechanical error on certain aircraft which may not have flown, or the appearance of an opportune weather front)

great game indeed!

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

I know I'm a little late to the show here but I think its battles like these that make this game so good. The unpredictability but still within the realm of realism is what makes this game unique. Had this been a real life battle, you'd probably hear some explanation how the Japanese were unable to locate the Allied fleet as quickly as the reverse because of Allied planes equipped with radar. Or maybe its that a series of miscommunication delayed the reaction of one fleet but not the other. Of course the game doesn't say what happened but we do now in real life things like this happened and led to this type of result.

[Bif1961]

One goal of the game is to see how you would handle situations that the historic characters faced. you are now facing the phase where you war goes from the offensive minded to the defensive minded and how best to make every inch costly. You are given a chance to change history on how you conduct the defensive phase of the war in the Pacific. many players cheat themselves of this by quitting after losing the KB.

[AcePylut]

IF only the float plane on the CA-Tone had flown 30 minutes earlier - WW2 may have had a very different outcome.

I've always found it fascinating, that in war throughout history, there are thousands to millions of people involved, and the outcome of the war can often be determined by one simple "twist of fate" or "decision" that had it gone the other way, an entirely different outcome may have occurred.

For example - what if Chamberlain hadn't given an order to "fix bayonets" on July 3rd, 1863.... the South could have rolled up the entire Union flank and Gettysburg would have been another feather int he cap for Lee.

[Lowpe]

I think you should plan your defence, builds, r&d, shipping, based on the supposition that the Allies will most likely be in position to bomb the HI in 1st Qtr 44. Considering the B29 shows up for action in 3/44 this is solid thinking for every JFB, but especially for a JFB without a full KB.

If the Allies go for the throat, you can win the air war (at least until 1945) by planning now. If they do a broad advance you can do even better I think.

500 Franks a month is not too much and might be too low; look at the Navy fighters you have and see what you can have by 3/44. Which model Jack or George? Get the engines cranking out! 3x as much Army fighter production than Navy.

Double check your fighter production at Harbin....it will keep cranking out the planes deep into 45 most likely.

Attack the Allied plane pools at every chance, with every tactic.

[John 3rd]

September 22, 1943

Three Japanese DDs are ordered to fall back and run interference as the Fleet attempts to limp away. They do their work in magnificent fashion. The trio tangle with four separate Allied TFs and manage to sink DD Cony in exchange for the Kisaragi to Dive Bombers. The work they do is well done.

No American ships mingle with damaged/fleeing ships.

At dawn the remaining undamaged carrier spot 5 AOs and feed off of them. They then turn and are full of fight. From the decks of 4 CV and 3 CVLs fighters, DB, and Torpedo planes lift off and attack. They are low in numbers but accomplish a lot. By the end of the day, they hit several American cruisers, BB Idaho and SINK the USS Nevada.

It ain't much but it is something. We'll hunt the Idaho with SS. She took a torp and multiple bombs.

Looks like we just MIGHT have broken contact. If he sends STF again next turn then they will meet a hot reception from the Japanese CVs and Marcus.

The screenshot doesn't show Nevada but it give a visual and where the fight is.

[John 3rd]

Several Japanese cripples were sunk by air strikes so this shows that: