The logistic System is a gigantic mess

[GodwinW]

Quite similar to how I play, also do not have issues.

[badwammerjammer]

Quick logistics query that doesn't warrant its own thread - let's say I have 1 zone producing all my fuel (3k/turn), my SHQ in another with 1k fuel banked, and my army in a 3rd (wanting 5k/turn).

Am I right in thinking that first the banked 1k will be distributed, then the 3k will be pulled to the SHQ? So the army won't have received what it needs, but I'll start the next turn with positive fuel in my SHQ?

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: liq3
Rail isn't more efficient at LP than trucks are, they're just the best at range. I'm not likely to build a train track less than 30 long (even 30 you can manage with trucks and some sealed roads), and that's 900 metal and IP already.

This is a good caveat. I would add, works well going through really bad terrain too, like mountains.

Somewhat like the Siege of Tyre causeway, I have built a rail station on one side of a mountain range and rail head at the other side just in order to move supplies into a campaign zone.

[Naselus]

ORIGINAL: badwammerjammer

Quick logistics query that doesn't warrant its own thread - let's say I have 1 zone producing all my fuel (3k/turn), my SHQ in another with 1k fuel banked, and my army in a 3rd (wanting 5k/turn).

Am I right in thinking that first the banked 1k will be distributed, then the 3k will be pulled to the SHQ? So the army won't have received what it needs, but I'll start the next turn with positive fuel in my SHQ?

Yes, this seems to be how it works.

It's easiest to see using IP generally - if you spend all the IP in the SHQ, then the next turn any construction in zones with no industry will not progress, but the SHQ will replenish it's IP stockpile with surpluses from zones that aren't using theirs.

[L0ckAndL0ad]

I'm playing on a 197x79 hex map and got to the point where I start making new cities and have to connect it all with a good logistical network. Trying to figure out the best way to do it, I broke my brain. Even WITP AE logistic is more straightforward to deal with.

I kinda understand how the roads work. But I started using railroads now and there are things I don't understand. If the railroad is built properly, with RR assets on both ends, do the units IN BETWEEN the assets, along the railroad itself, get the full capacity available to them? Like, before I built the end way of the RR, the capacity on the railways showed 100 (10%, as per manual), but then it jumped to full 1000 when the asset on the far end went operational. But does that mean you can use 100% RR capacity along the entire network? Or only just where the RR assets are present?

[Jdane]

The latter.
10% being available along the railway track, should a unit need to source supplies from there.

Basically you need infrastructure to unlock the full potential of rail logistics, but still can use some in the boonies in a pinch.

[Naselus]

ORIGINAL: L0ckAndL0ad

I'm playing on a 197x79 hex map and got to the point where I start making new cities and have to connect it all with a good logistical network. Trying to figure out the best way to do it, I broke my brain. Even WITP AE logistic is more straightforward to deal with.

I kinda understand how the roads work. But I started using railroads now and there are things I don't understand. If the railroad is built properly, with RR assets on both ends, do the units IN BETWEEN the assets, along the railroad itself, get the full capacity available to them? Like, before I built the end way of the RR, the capacity on the railways showed 100 (10%, as per manual), but then it jumped to full 1000 when the asset on the far end went operational. But does that mean you can use 100% RR capacity along the entire network? Or only just where the RR assets are present?

RR seems to be pretty much 100% the whole length, provided it has 'ends'. Build a truck stop and some roads off a RR, you can collect the truck stop's fill of LIS and move them off the train without it apparently needing to stop anywhere.

On the big maps, on very slow, I'm finding that railroad to connect all cities, with minimum L2 truck depots at each city to distribute logi once it gets there works well tbh. IP and metal are just not a big problem when you have 10+ cities in the mid game, which you should on a 200x map - I presently have 13 cities and own about 20% of the map. This means I can build anything anywhere by importing the mats, which experience tells me is extremely important.

I'm generally trying to keep zones really small tho - admin strain is absolutely devastating, since it's a flat % off the output of, well, almost everything, so 1 truck stop in the city, fed by a railway can basically cover a whole zone ideally. If I was using huge rambling zones then maybe I'd approach things differently.

[ramnblam]

Can someone explain to me when is the time to build a supply base? Should they be built in the same hex as a truck station? The manual says to choose a hex with good supply and it will extend the amount of hexes with that supply point value. Does it extend in one direction or both? Is it ever worth building another supply base on the same road before it meets another truck station?

[jimwinsor]

Well I missed this in the latest beta patch notes ... spaghetti road haters, there ya go!

[Naselus]

ORIGINAL: ramnblam

Can someone explain to me when is the time to build a supply base? Should they be built in the same hex as a truck station? The manual says to choose a hex with good supply and it will extend the amount of hexes with that supply point value. Does it extend in one direction or both? Is it ever worth building another supply base on the same road before it meets another truck station?

Only when you can't afford another truck station imo, supply bases are mostly junk.

[KingHalford]

ORIGINAL: jimwinsor

Well I missed this in the latest beta patch notes ... spaghetti road haters, there ya go!

That was quick!

[Jdane]

I love this sentence.
« Or maybe you'd like to demolish some roads? » [:D]
Yes, I'm in the mood for destruction. The precious sacred bodily fluid of our regime, our holy LIS, is wasted on these forsaken trails. Let the caterpillars sally forth!

[DTurtle]

ORIGINAL: Naselus
Only when you can't afford another truck station imo, supply bases are mostly junk.

I have to strongly disagree with that. Supply bases are magnificent. I build them one hex outside the city. A Lvl 2 Truck station + Lvl 2 Supply base can go 18 hexes on dirt roads without losing any truck points and go another 10 or so hexes after that. Double that for sealed roads.

You get that range extension for the cost of 1-3 hexes of railroad tracks and almost nothing in upkeep.

[Naselus]

ORIGINAL: DTurtle
I have to strongly disagree with that. Supply bases are magnificent. I build them one hex outside the city. A Lvl 2 Truck station + Lvl 2 Supply base can go 18 hexes on dirt roads without losing any truck points and go another 10 or so hexes after that. Double that for sealed roads.

You get that range extension for the cost of 1-3 hexes of railroad tracks and almost nothing in upkeep.

Reasonable men disagree

Honestly, I think this will really depend on the circumstances in-game. I have a ton of IP and oil and I'm generating silly amounts of pop from cloning centres, so truck stops cost me basically nothing. If I was sat on a tiny life-free moon with bingo oil, I suspect I'd suddenly find supply bases amazing...

[Nemo84]

ORIGINAL: Naselus

ORIGINAL: ramnblam

Can someone explain to me when is the time to build a supply base? Should they be built in the same hex as a truck station? The manual says to choose a hex with good supply and it will extend the amount of hexes with that supply point value. Does it extend in one direction or both? Is it ever worth building another supply base on the same road before it meets another truck station?

Only when you can't afford another truck station imo, supply bases are mostly junk.

Supply bases are a lot cheaper than truck stations and allow you the same total truck points when used correctly.

Basically a lvl.1 Truck Station will extend its 1000 truck points (TP) over a region of 100 action points (AP). A normal dirt road takes 10 AP to traverse. So your Truck Station will extend its full 1000 TP as Logistics Points (LP) over a 10 hex radius. After that its LP will gradually fall to zero over the next 10 hexes. So let's say you have a 20 hex road between two cities with a lvl.1 truck station in each. You can send cargo weighing barely more than 1000 LP per turn, because the end hexes will only see a tiny fraction of the LP from the other city, and you'll have unused capacity in the middle of the road where the two radii overlap.

That's where the Supply Base comes in. A lvl.3 Supply Base extends your AP with 100. Build it in between both cities and now the entire road sees 2000 LP and can send 2000 cargo per turn. Lower levels have lower AP extension, which is useful for shorther roads.

Now you ask: why not build another truck station in the middle? Well, first of all, if you build a lvl.1 Truck Station in between both ends will only see 500 LP from that station, as the TP are split among both road branches leaving that station. Secondly, supply bases scale better. If each city upgrades its Truck Stations to lvl.5, they'll each generate 25000 TP. To extend 50% of this to the other city with a Truck Station, you'd need to upgrade that one to an expensive lvl.5 as well. You can still extend it 100% with the same old cheap lvl.3 Supply Base.

[ramnblam]

So it's never a bad idea to build a supply station next or in close proximity to a truckstation/city?

[Naselus]

ORIGINAL: ramnblam

So it's never a bad idea to build a supply station next or in close proximity to a truckstation/city?

I think it depends on your circumstances. If you're following a strict 6-hex limit round your cities and have no real pop, fuel or IP limitations then supply bases are completely useless.

On the other hand, if your zones are all 500 hexes wide, fuel MUST be synthesized cos hydrocarbons never happened on your planet, IP is precious and population is hard to come by, then supply bases are completely vital and you should only ever build a truck stop if there's no option.

Most situations will be somewhere in between.

[ramnblam]

Yeah I hear you Naselus, I just won my first game and the mid-end game was a real big learning experience in regards to logistics. Most of the end game after smashing two push over neighbouring majors was fighting the absolute fucking hordes of giant animals and pushing borders and trying to keep the troops supplied.

[Nemo84]

ORIGINAL: ramnblam

So it's never a bad idea to build a supply station next or in close proximity to a truckstation/city?

I would never build it next to a truck station. No reason to, and then it would only work well for that single truck station. You want to build it in between stations or near intersections, so it can boost more than one. At least have it boost traffic in both directions. You just have to make sure it's within the optimal range of the stations. For a lvl.7 station and a sealed road that's 26 hexes, so it's not hard and you don't need many if you place them properly.

I have a supply base that serves 9 different truck stations, simply because it is built near an important intersection in my logistics network, close to SHQ.

[ramnblam]

Ok Nemo, I'm beginning to understand. For example I had issues when assaulting a neighbouring major with overwhelming force I had bottlenecks at the intersections leading towards the front, so a supply base can help mitigate the strain and make more points available downstream?

I would fucking love the UI to be like "yo bro, if you put this here, this is what the shit is gonna do" haha