Letters from Iwo Jima

[Hortlund]

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

An Internment Camp is a Concentration Camp. The term Concentration Camp was first used during the Boer Wars and was regularly used in place of the term Internment Camps. The term Concentration Camp started to have bad connotations when they were link to Nazi Germany and the Holocaust.

What do you call a camp where you put civilians of your own nation, who have not committed a crime (then they would be sent to a prison), but are placed there because of their ethnicity, sexuality, religion or political affiliation? I call that a concentration camp, what term do you think we should use?

What do you call a camp where you put interned enemy soldiers? I call that an internment camp, what term do you think we should use?

What do you call a camp where you put refugees from other countries? I call that a refugee camp, what term do you think we should use?

In addition to the camp-types above, we also have extermination camps and force-labour camps, but they are irrelevant to our current discussion so Ive left those out.

I've looked up 6 sources now and they all say Storsien is very real.

For the umpteenth time, there is no town, city or hamlet in Sweden called "Storsien". Nor did we ever have a concentration camp by that name. List those 6 sources then. My bet is that they are all cross referencing eachother.

[Dino]

ORIGINAL: Sarge

ORIGINAL: Dino

ORIGINAL: mjk428

You don't get to determine after the fact what things we could have removed from the equation...

Why not? Isn't that what's called a history lesson?

Actually its called hindsight ,which by the way does not equate to wisdom [;)]

Yeah, I know...Holocaust is "hindsight", too.

I guess we learned nothing from WW2.

[Dino]

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

ORIGINAL: Lava


Now, while your ordinary innocent German probably didn't personally kill any Jews, bomb any cities, etc. etc., I somehow find it very difficult to believe they were unaware that such things were occurring.

Ray (alias Lava)

Oh no! You're a racist too?[X(][:D]

You noticed, too? [X(] [8|]

[Dino]

ORIGINAL: mjk428

When you're in a total war, you don't worry about referring to the enemy in a polically correct way for fear of offending the fragile sensibilities of Europeans decades later. Even if it might result in a strongly worded letter from the UN for the use of racially charged words like "they" and "them".

Whether you want to admit it or not, those words ARE racially charged when used in a certain context...Like in describing the "stinking savages" that are now "downright reasonable" after being "gentled" by firebombing.

Used by itself, word "savages" is just another word...so is the word "stinking".

[Dino]

ORIGINAL: mjk428

Who are you to say what's fine re: someone's own conscience? Try to understand that in the latter case they may have been looked on as animals because of their behavior - not because of propaganda or racial prejudice.

A certain amount of hatred in wartime is inevitable...But, one CAN and SHOULD watch himself.

I think your father understood...

...I find myself hating these damn Jerries more and more. If I don't watch myself, I'll be asking to go back up there again.

[Knuckles_85]

Storsien is a small village in Kalix Municipality in northern Sweden. It is best known for the concentration camp located there where about 300-370 communists and pacifists were held during the winter of 1939-1940.

The village was founded in 1798 and grew to its maximum size at the end of the 1940s with about 80 inhabitants. Today it consists of thirteen farms with a total of about twenty-five people. Mail service, with one delivery per week, was started in early 1900. Telephones were installed in 1927, and electricity in 1941.

[Dino]

ORIGINAL: mjk428

Who are you to say...

I'm someone who is expressing his own views, just like everyone else on this thread...

You are free to call those views pompous, self righteous, hypocritical, or any other adjective you care to attribute...but, I'm going to stick to them until someone actually points out to me where those views are wrong.

[Knuckles_85]

Doggie was correct when he labeled the Japanese as bloodthirsty savages that needed to be pacified.

[Hortlund]

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

Storsien is a small village in Kalix Municipality in northern Sweden. It is best known for the concentration camp located there where about 300-370 communists and pacifists were held during the winter of 1939-1940.

The village was founded in 1798 and grew to its maximum size at the end of the 1940s with about 80 inhabitants. Today it consists of thirteen farms with a total of about twenty-five people. Mail service, with one delivery per week, was started in early 1900. Telephones were installed in 1927, and electricity in 1941.

LOL, you are just making this up as you go, arent you?

[Hortlund]

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

An Internment Camp is a Concentration Camp. The term Concentration Camp was first used during the Boer Wars and was regularly used in place of the term Internment Camps. The term Concentration Camp started to have bad connotations when they were link to Nazi Germany and the Holocaust.

What do you call a camp where you put civilians of your own nation, who have not committed a crime (then they would be sent to a prison), but are placed there because of their ethnicity, sexuality, religion or political affiliation? I call that a concentration camp, what term do you think we should use?

What do you call a camp where you put interned enemy soldiers? I call that an internment camp, what term do you think we should use?

What do you call a camp where you put refugees from other countries? I call that a refugee camp, what term do you think we should use?

In addition to the camp-types above, we also have extermination camps and force-labour camps, but they are irrelevant to our current discussion so Ive left those out.




So...knuckels...whats your answer?

[Dino]

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

Doggie was correct when he labeled the Japanese as bloodthirsty savages that needed to be pacified.

Are you daring me to call you a racist? [:D]

[Knuckles_85]

Why would I make it up?

[Knuckles_85]

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

An Internment Camp is a Concentration Camp. The term Concentration Camp was first used during the Boer Wars and was regularly used in place of the term Internment Camps. The term Concentration Camp started to have bad connotations when they were link to Nazi Germany and the Holocaust.

What do you call a camp where you put civilians of your own nation, who have not committed a crime (then they would be sent to a prison), but are placed there because of their ethnicity, sexuality, religion or political affiliation? I call that a concentration camp, what term do you think we should use?

What do you call a camp where you put interned enemy soldiers? I call that an internment camp, what term do you think we should use?

What do you call a camp where you put refugees from other countries? I call that a refugee camp, what term do you think we should use?

In addition to the camp-types above, we also have extermination camps and force-labour camps, but they are irrelevant to our current discussion so Ive left those out.




So...knuckels...whats your answer?

Will you accept Webster Merriam?

concentration camp
n.
A camp where civilians, enemy aliens, political prisoners, and sometimes prisoners of war are detained and confined, typically under harsh conditions.
A place or situation characterized by extremely harsh conditions.

internment camp
–noun a prison camp for the confinement of enemy aliens, prisoners of war, political prisoners, etc.

[Knuckles_85]

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

Storsien is a small village in Kalix Municipality in northern Sweden. It is best known for the concentration camp located there where about 300-370 communists and pacifists were held during the winter of 1939-1940.

The village was founded in 1798 and grew to its maximum size at the end of the 1940s with about 80 inhabitants. Today it consists of thirteen farms with a total of about twenty-five people. Mail service, with one delivery per week, was started in early 1900. Telephones were installed in 1927, and electricity in 1941.

LOL, you are just making this up as you go, arent you?

From Encyclopedia Britannica

Storsien is a small village in Kalix Municipality in northern Sweden. It is best known for the concentration camp located there where about 300-370 communists and pacifists were held during the winter of 1939-1940.
The village was founded in 1798 and grew to its maximum size at the end of the 1940s with about 80 inhabitants. Today it consists of thirteen farms with a total of about twenty-five people. Mail service, with one delivery per week, was started in early 1900. Telephones were installed in 1927, and electricity in 1941.

[Knuckles_85]

ORIGINAL: Dino

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

Doggie was correct when he labeled the Japanese as bloodthirsty savages that needed to be pacified.

Are you daring me to call you a racist? [:D]
Do as you will but he's right.

[Hortlund]

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
Will you accept Webster Merriam?

concentration camp
n.
A camp where civilians, enemy aliens, political prisoners, and sometimes prisoners of war are detained and confined, typically under harsh conditions.
A place or situation characterized by extremely harsh conditions.

internment camp
–noun a prison camp for the confinement of enemy aliens, prisoners of war, political prisoners, etc.

Since there apparently is no difference between the two according to Webster Merriam, no I wont.

[Jeff Norton]

ORIGINAL: Dino


Yeah, I know...Holocaust is "hindsight", too.

I guess we learned nothing from WW2.

Dude, now you're being plain silly and argumentative...

Its easy to obtain lessons of history, but quite a few never learn from it. We're all guilty of hindsight - its far easier to quibble (today) over the minutia elements that were obscured, conflicting, or not important at the time (then). Running a war (IMHO) can be a very involved process (or, so I have learned)....

We learned quite a bit from WW2 - both good and bad. Sadly, when Korea arrived, much of it was lost on TF Smith debacle, along with the French shindig in Vietnam (probally ours too). But, we did keep quite a few of the lessons learned, and, employ them now.

We'll probably FUBAR what we have learned from Iraq and Afghanistan (oddly, many of the same lessons the Soviets learned we had to 'relearn'), but those decisions are 'many pay grades higher than mine'.....

[Knuckles_85]

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
Will you accept Webster Merriam?

concentration camp
n.
A camp where civilians, enemy aliens, political prisoners, and sometimes prisoners of war are detained and confined, typically under harsh conditions.
A place or situation characterized by extremely harsh conditions.

internment camp
–noun a prison camp for the confinement of enemy aliens, prisoners of war, political prisoners, etc.

Since there apparently is no difference between the two according to Webster Merriam, no I wont.

Ok, what source besides your opinion will you accept?

[Hortlund]

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

Storsien is a small village in Kalix Municipality in northern Sweden. It is best known for the concentration camp located there where about 300-370 communists and pacifists were held during the winter of 1939-1940.

The village was founded in 1798 and grew to its maximum size at the end of the 1940s with about 80 inhabitants. Today it consists of thirteen farms with a total of about twenty-five people. Mail service, with one delivery per week, was started in early 1900. Telephones were installed in 1927, and electricity in 1941.

LOL, you are just making this up as you go, arent you?

From Encyclopedia Britannica

Storsien is a small village in Kalix Municipality in northern Sweden. It is best known for the concentration camp located there where about 300-370 communists and pacifists were held during the winter of 1939-1940.
The village was founded in 1798 and grew to its maximum size at the end of the 1940s with about 80 inhabitants. Today it consists of thirteen farms with a total of about twenty-five people. Mail service, with one delivery per week, was started in early 1900. Telephones were installed in 1927, and electricity in 1941.

Funny, when I search for it on Encyclopedia Britannica I get "sorry we were unable to find results for your search".

When I turn to wikipedia however, I get that exact text you just posted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storsien

So...not only are you making stuff up, you are now caught lying aswell? Congratulations, you have just lost all your credibility on this forum...and for what? Some sort of personal crusade to try to prove that Sweden had concentration camps? Was it worth it?

[BlindOldUmp]

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
Storsien is a small village in Kalix Municipality in northern Sweden. It is best known for the concentration camp located there where about 300-370 communists and pacifists were held during the winter of 1939-1940.

The village was founded in 1798 and grew to its maximum size at the end of the 1940s with about 80 inhabitants. Today it consists of thirteen farms with a total of about twenty-five people. Mail service, with one delivery per week, was started in early 1900. Telephones were installed in 1927, and electricity in 1941.

LOL, you are just making this up as you go, arent you?

From Encyclopedia Britannica

Storsien is a small village in Kalix Municipality in northern Sweden. It is best known for the concentration camp located there where about 300-370 communists and pacifists were held during the winter of 1939-1940.
The village was founded in 1798 and grew to its maximum size at the end of the 1940s with about 80 inhabitants. Today it consists of thirteen farms with a total of about twenty-five people. Mail service, with one delivery per week, was started in early 1900. Telephones were installed in 1927, and electricity in 1941.

I don't know if he's making up the EB reference as I don't have one handy and I didn't pay for online access but the WikiPedia entry is the same basic information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storsien, I don't read Swedish & this may reference the musical group but I don't think so .... http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storsien notice:

300-370 kommunister och pacifister internerades vintern 1939-1940

Looks like a no stop sign don't blink moose crossing but it does exist. Others have been there.

From a moose hunter travelog: http://www.confluence.org/confluence.php?id=8371 Now this guy calls it a work camp but notes Forced Labour, which IIRC is against the Geneva Convention.

08-Sep-2002 -- Set out from Boliden at 08:05 to visit 66Nx23E and 66Nx27E. Rain in Boliden, but clearing at Kalix, about 200 km northeast from Boliden. Drove to Korpikå, then to Lilla Lappträsk, then a small gravel road towards Stora Lappträsk.

After 2.5 km, I took off north on a small dirt track, drove 1.5 km and stopped in an old gravel pit. From there it was about 650 m to walk along a property boundary clearing to a bog. The confluence is located at the northernmost part of the bog, where it is covered with bush vegetation and small trees. Moose had been resting a few meters from the confluence. The vegetation type is taiga forest and bog, elevation is 59 m.

After the visit, I continued north to Storsien, where a work camp was established in the beginning of World War II. The Soviet Union had attacked Finland in November, 1939. Sweden mobilised her army and the Swedish government was scared that pro-Soviet communists would distribute propaganda in the armed forces. At first the suspect propagandists were housed in bakery cottages and the like, later a barracks camp was built in the forest. The forced workers built a road (very slowly) in the area.

After Storsien I continued to 66Nx27E (in Finland). Moose hunting was going on along the road from Storsien to Korpikå.

Now 66 degrees north is complete within Sweden!