How much

JudgeDredd · Post by **JudgeDredd** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:58 pm

Well - tbf neither was he.

Anyway - worth $80?

From my point of view, I'm very pleased with my purchase.

Knowing how I am with gaming, I can't really say I've got my monies worth so early on. If I'm playing this in a month, then I'd definitely consider it true to say I've had my monies worth - as I am seldom playing a new game a month down the road. Two months, and I'm definitely reaping the benefits of my purchase.

All I can say from my pov is I haven't regretted my purchase. In fact, I've played the tutorial and Road to Minsk, that's all, and I've started another game of Road to Minsk. If a 3 turn scenario can hold me - I wonder if the big one will. Sometimes I get bored with these big games...lose track of my initial objectives and just start blindly moving counters about without utilising the benefits the rules bring...and when that happens, I move on quite soon after.

I think you should ask me in a month if I'm still playing. If I am, then I am most definitely enjoying myself and my purchase.

Templer_12 · Post by **Templer_12** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:53 am

And here is another one happy with his purchase. [:)]
+1

diablo1 · Post by **diablo1** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:42 am

I think you should ask me in a month if I'm still playing. If I am, then I am most definitely enjoying myself and my purchase.

ok that sounds fair. I've noticed some of your comments about other games and you have simular opinions taht I do on several. I'm still on the fence with BftB even with it onsale. I'm also one who doesn't like big long gaming affairs. I tend to like games that can be finished in one setting myself. I have the old Second Front game by SSI and I did play it to the end once and never wanted to play it again and that's probably how this game would end up with me. Fortunately the price will keep me from buying it for at least a year till next christmas sale anyway.

parusski · Post by **parusski** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:47 am

PyleDriver, I agree about the $30.00 games collecting dust. Plus a lot of $40 and $50 games as well.

This has been the best ROI I have ever received, except maybe for Civilization II.

diablo1 · Post by **diablo1** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:49 pm

The reason there are so many or more $30, $40, and $50 games collecting dust is because they are the "norm" priced games. $80 games are unusual and rare and thus will always look like there are less of them collecting dust (even though there are some) than those others. When $80 games become the norm (god I hope never) then you'll see just as many of them collecting dust as these $30, $40 and $50 games of today.

Aurelian · Post by **Aurelian** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:08 am

Well, I coulda bought Computer War in Europe.

No AI though.

For $19 more, I got WiTE. And the detail just astounds me.

billyjj · Post by **billyjj** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:55 am

People on this forum still haven't learned their lesson. Looks like an other money grab.. this is getting really old, but the same fanboys say the same thing about game after game. "But this game is soooo good, and it took soooo much effort and research".. Its a damn eastern front hex game you don't need research all you do is open up a history book on tanks and copy the stats into your game, what a joke.

bairdlander2 · Post by **bairdlander2** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:24 am

I bought WitE I beleive 2 days after release and have put in approximatly 40 hours of gametime,so yes its worth it,I paid about the same price for WitPAE and spent about 10 hours on that before boredom set in.I just dont have the patience to micromanagment every squad/unit,ship,etc with supply and worry etc.But my question here is why all the fuss in WitE regarding supply,when it seems all you have to do is keep your corps(as Axis) on railline 5 hexes away?Am I missing something?At what point does the game become "grognard" or complex?I always thought it would be the same difficulty/micromanagment as WitPAE[&:]

Grotius · Post by **Grotius** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:25 am

It's a wonderful game that reflects lots of hard work, not just "opening a history book and copying stats into a game," lol. The AI is pretty darned impressive, and I know how hard it is to code a decent AI. In terms of dollars-per-hour, it's also the cheapest game I've bought all year.

I do think, though, that the game is best for people who have some inherent interest in the subject-matter.

U235 · Post by **U235** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:43 am

I felt I had to chime in on this one. I don't mind paying for a great game (after plenty of player reviews of course). What I do mind is when the game is old and still over 50 bucks. Example: I love Steel Panthers. I own every commercial iteration and most of the post SSI creations as well. Unfortunately I missed two of Matrixgames's expansion packs. The only way to get them now is to buy the General's Edition. This game has not been touched (updated) by Matrixgames in years, regrettably. That kind of blows the "continuing research/development costs" defense out of the water. I'm sure over 90% of the costs to make it have already been expended and recouped, I could be wrong.

As for WItE, it's up there (I'm still on the fence). My line thinking on it is wouldn't it be better to sell 2 people a copy for 50 bucks than one copy for 80? If the game is good, that's two supporting voices advocating (for people like myself that listen to many players opinions), and probably two people that will buy the expansions (if and) when they come out. The only flaw I can think of is that Matrix believes only a certain number of copies will sell regardless of the price. I would disagree. 80 bucks pays my home phone and cell phone bills for a month with a little left over. I'm sure a lot of folks evaluate their needs and wants before making a decision too.

Before I get shotgun blasted by some. I own WItP and WItP AE. I can tell you due to no fault of the games (work), I haven't got my monies worth from them yet (but I hope too, even if that will be when I retire). So I say to Matrix make me want to dig deep into my wallet to buy a game I probably won't get to enjoy fully for a while. 90 bucks (hard copy) looks almost exactly like $100 when it passes thru my brains "purchasing logic" filter. Oh yeah, and SPWaW Generals Edition needs a half price sale! [:D]

Gandalf · Post by **Gandalf** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:48 am

ORIGINAL: U-235

I felt I had to chime in on this one. I don't mind paying for a great game (after plenty of player reviews of course). What I do mind is when the game is old and still over 50 bucks. Example: I love Steel Panthers. I own every commercial iteration and most of the post SSI creations as well. Unfortunately I missed two of Matrixgames's expansion packs. The only way to get them now is to buy the General's Edition. This game has not been touched (updated) by Matrixgames in years, regrettably. That kind of blows the "continuing research/development costs" defense out of the water. I'm sure over 90% of the costs to make it have already been expended and recouped, I could be wrong.

As for WItE, it's up there (I'm still on the fence). My line thinking on it is wouldn't it be better to sell 2 people a copy for 50 bucks than one copy for 80? If the game is good, that's two supporting voices advocating (for people like myself that listen to many players opinions), and probably two people that will buy the expansions (if and) when they come out. The only flaw I can think of is that Matrix believes only a certain number of copies will sell regardless of the price. I would disagree. 80 bucks pays my home phone and cell phone bills for a month with a little left over. I'm sure a lot of folks evaluate their needs and wants before making a decision too.

Before I get shotgun blasted by some. I own WItP and WItP AE. I can tell you due to no fault of the games (work), I haven't got my monies worth from them yet (but I hope too, even if that will be when I retire). So I say to Matrix make me want to dig deep into my wallet to buy a game I probably won't get to enjoy fully for a while. 90 bucks (hard copy) looks almost exactly like $100 when it passes thru my brains "purchasing logic" filter. Oh yeah, and SPWaW Generals Edition needs a half price sale! [:D]

Nah, they should keep it $80... It's worth every dollar. Matter of fact, I'd have paid $100 for it. Beats the heck out of pushing cardboard counters around and you don't even have to worry about the cat running across the map.

Did you know the original War in the East boardgame sells for $225 for the complete set... see: http://www.origami-kids.com/shopping/en ... -maps.html

The original War in the West Boardgame sells for $300. see: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1710 ... n-the-west

Also War In Europe (the complete integrated War In the West/War In the East package) runs for $500.00 when it's not sold out... see: http://www.trollandtoad.com/p150377.html

I can't believe I tossed my copy of War In Europe in the 80s after the advent of Computers and no room for setting it up... Sheesh $500 bucks would have bought me 6 copies of this computer version...

So much for older games selling cheaper.

parusski · Post by **parusski** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:18 am

ORIGINAL: billyjj

People on this forum still haven't learned their lesson. Looks like an other money grab.. this is getting really old, but the same fanboys say the same thing about game after game. "But this game is soooo good, and it took soooo much effort and research".. Its a damn eastern front hex game you don't need research all you do is open up a history book on tanks and copy the stats into your game, what a joke.

Man, not only are you insulting to customers who gave a lot of thought to spending $90 on the game, you are not very well informed about creating a game of this depth, playability and quality. So tell me how soon you can do your research, think of a basic idea of what your game will be about and who your target audience is, decide if you are going to innovate or clone, write a design document(play the game in your head, model every aspect of the game with a spreadsheet, create user interfaces and all the games features[and revise, revise, revise].) Oh, don't forget game mechanics. Oh, decide how to implement these ideas into a game. Also, are you going to write the code all alone? What about graphics? Will you create something new or manipulate the old? Or will you need someone to work on the artwork of the game. Darn, I forgot something that you should think of somewhere at the start: What's your hook and how long will it take to catch and hold that player? Play "rock, paper scissors" while developing-you know, what will be a(or some) key strong unit's and key weak unit's. Balance is the goal here. Back to programming. Will you write the code? If so which language? How many lines of code do you think it will take? WHOA, don't forget that artificial intelligence. But I'm sure that and everything else is as easy as you say, why it's in the history books. Will you use testers? Or just write all that code, create beautiful tiles, an attractive and intuitive interface, a smart AI......and then just through it out to fan boys?

God, how pathetic that little attempt was at explaining how to make a game. It's is maybe a little more involved than what I just prattled on about. Did you know Age of Empire's was a 1000 day project? Read that somewhere a long time ago.

Joel, when billyjj has created the game, thus proving Matrix is bloated and inefficient, PLEASE allow him to post a link to it. I can't wait to see the result.

wworld7 · Post by **wworld7** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:22 am

ORIGINAL: U-235

My line thinking on it is wouldn't it be better to sell 2 people a copy for 50 bucks than one copy for 80?

This doesn't work if the FIXED costs per copy is over your $50.00 example. There are many costs that most people are unaware of.

parusski · Post by **parusski** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:38 am

My GOD man home and cell phone. Got rid of the old home phone in 2004. That has been one of many reasons I can buy affordable entertainment like WitE. "Needs and wants" you say. Do you really need a home phone. I know you might depending on location, but most people don't. This game price issue is like the gas price issue. Inflation never really touched gasoline. But when it hit $3-$4 a gallon few Americans really made any changes at all in driving habits, because today's prices are what they should have been based on inflation. And oh man the stories of vacations canceled. MATH: if a family planned a 500 mile round trip vacation when gas was $1.75 and their car got about 26 MPG(Avg in 2008) they would have spent about 34 bucks on fuel. So when gas hit $3.00 they then needed to spend about $58.00. LOL, most people who could afford the trip to start with most likely could scrape up another 24 green bills. HYPE. What the hell am I talking about?

Most pc games cost from $39-$59.00, and they are aimed at the mass market. If you are really a lover of niche games, especially war games then you should expect the game to cost a lot more because it takes more work to hook niche players. And would everyone stop the "it's better to sell two WitE at $40 or $50 than one at $90..."! Read Thomas Sowell or Friedrick Hayek and learn a little about economics. My head will explode over this insane issue.[>:][:(][X(][8|]

Gandalf · Post by **Gandalf** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:46 am

parrusski:

I'm laughing so hard... I'm freaking crying. (of course it all started when I saw the current price for the original War In Europe I posted above.) [:D]

Quote from wife (back then)...

When are you going to get rid of those worthless things? They take up too much space.

Gotta show her that link... hehe

bairdlander2 · Post by **bairdlander2** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:43 am

I love it the Canadian dollar closed worth more than usa currency,Im proud to be canadian[:D]

bairdlander2 · Post by **bairdlander2** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:50 am

These price threads always start with any new release over $40,I doubt these games sell millions of copies like console fps games,if the devs can make some $$ Im glad to give it to them,cuz I dont see any mainstream companies selling games like this.If you dont like the price dont buy,simple.

diablo1 · Post by **diablo1** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:03 pm

If you dont like the price dont buy,simple.

Thank you...I won't. [:)] But, I will always stand up for MY RIGHT to complain about todays prices on anything and everything I deem important and necessary. That's what a democracy allows don't you know? So you leftists can just move along and stop telling us we can't complain. [:)]

hgilmer3 · Post by **hgilmer3** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:11 pm

ORIGINAL: diablo1

If you dont like the price dont buy,simple.

Thank you...I won't. [:)] But, I will always stand up for MY RIGHT to complain about todays prices on anything and everything I deem important and necessary. That's what a democracy allows don't you know? So you leftists can just move along and stop telling us we can't complain. [:)]

I disliked the price on BFTB and said so. Probably more than once. But, if I recall correctly I was more annoyed at the increase in price of previous titles. That to me was wrong. I had fully planned on getting one of the earlier titles to determine if I would like BFTB, but then the price went up on the older titles and I balked.

All I can say is I think this one is worth it.

Oleg Mastruko · Post by **Oleg Mastruko** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:22 pm

ORIGINAL: hgilmer3
I disliked the price on BFTB and said so. Probably more than once. But, if I recall correctly I was more annoyed at the increase in price of previous titles. That to me was wrong. I had fully planned on getting one of the earlier titles to determine if I would like BFTB, but then the price went up on the older titles and I balked.

All I can say is I think this one is worth it.

Exactly.

This game and BFTB are worlds apart. In gaming value terms this game is worth the asking price, BFTB is nowhere near that. Simple as that.

Now, the fact that Matrixgames priced both products nearly the same does not reflect well on the company IMO, but that's another matter entirely. I don't want to send a message that WITE should be priced higher. My message is that BFTB's price is ridicolous, but that we, gamers, are ready to pay premium price for premium product without complaining. In my case WITE price is not a problem at all.

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