Tokyo Rose was a Hussy! Chez (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
Its got to Celebes surely?
I'm a complete newb, but that looks so promising, you have to take advantage of it.
I'm a complete newb, but that looks so promising, you have to take advantage of it.
- ny59giants
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RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
Land at what bases you can in Celebes. If you can isolate both Timor and Java before he knowns you are there, the better for you. I would shift some forces from South Pacific and beyond to this area. Yes, it will take some time, but having a wide shoulder to operate from is great news for you in early 43.
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- Canoerebel
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RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
The weight of the Japanese navy and airforce is in the South China Sea region. If the Allies were to advance here, the best course would be to prep a major army to take Kuching. But at present I'd rather devote my troops to more promising locales - mainly the central and eastern DEI.


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"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
Simply brilliant! Were you a pickpocket or sleight-of-hand artist in your earlier days? You sure seem to know how to use distraction/deception while getting away with what you really want! 

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
I can see advantages in Celebes if you can also do those landings on the sly and get building before he knows what's up - but the attempt may also tip him off to your Eastern DEI developments if he sees one move and checks around for other locations. Above all I don't like that base way up the bay in central Celebes - looks too easy to interdict by sub or fast surface TF.ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Land at what bases you can in Celebes. If you can isolate both Timor and Java before he knowns you are there, the better for you. I would shift some forces from South Pacific and beyond to this area. Yes, it will take some time, but having a wide shoulder to operate from is great news for you in early 43.
Banjermasin may be a resisted landing, but it is sure to rivet his attention on Borneo for a while longer and help cover your other moves.
Nice to have such great options!
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
- Canoerebel
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RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
Action in the Andaman Sea rim and Burma. The Allies really don't have a strong army in Burma, but have been able to go on the offensive and actually take some key bases...only because the Japanese were even weaker. Now things are slowing down as Steve reinforces. The Allies will try to keep up the pressure - to hold Steve's attention here.


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- Canoerebel
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RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
The Happy Tranquility in the eastern DEI will and must come to and end. Steve might catch wind of it - a lucky SigInt report, a wandering sub seeing something, a newly placed patrol squadron, a hunch, or whatever. That's okay, as at some point the Allies have to make known their presence. The first phase has been to occupy, beef up the garrison, and build each airfield right to the brink of level one (and then halt to prevent a report of the airfield being generated in the operations report). But I've got to build the airfield (and port) in order to bump up the supply to some kind of reasonable level. So the plan is something like this:
1. The Allies will continue to lay low until the airfields are all at about 98% readiness (Taberfane and Saumlaki are there; Sorong, Boela and Morotai have a ways to go). Then trigger all airfields to build. Simultaneously, Steve will get a report of at least five airfields going operational in the DEI. 
2. Pre-position supply ships to go into each base as soon as the airfields expand (at which point supply limits should increase to 17k).
3. (In the meantime, of course, the Allies will be continuing to bring garrison troops forward as quickly and as long as possible.)
4. Coinciding with the airfield increase, the Allied carriers and amphibious TFs spring into the Banda Sea and move on Celebes. The Allies will have a network of airfields with patrol squadrons to the north and west (Morotai and Sampit at a minimum, possibly also Dadjangas if, as planned, the Allies air transport in a base force and some supply). This should provide warning of a move by the the KB. The Allied carriers really won't be in "Indian country." They'll have a number of interlocking, though small, airfields just to the east.
1. The Allies will continue to lay low until the airfields are all at about 98% readiness (Taberfane and Saumlaki are there; Sorong, Boela and Morotai have a ways to go). Then trigger all airfields to build. Simultaneously, Steve will get a report of at least five airfields going operational in the DEI.

2. Pre-position supply ships to go into each base as soon as the airfields expand (at which point supply limits should increase to 17k).
3. (In the meantime, of course, the Allies will be continuing to bring garrison troops forward as quickly and as long as possible.)
4. Coinciding with the airfield increase, the Allied carriers and amphibious TFs spring into the Banda Sea and move on Celebes. The Allies will have a network of airfields with patrol squadrons to the north and west (Morotai and Sampit at a minimum, possibly also Dadjangas if, as planned, the Allies air transport in a base force and some supply). This should provide warning of a move by the the KB. The Allied carriers really won't be in "Indian country." They'll have a number of interlocking, though small, airfields just to the east.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
The middle DEI is pretty much wide open at the moment. Worth invading?
I fail to see a strategic advantage or tactical advantage gleaned from this approach that you would not be granted by further exploiting your Morotai / Ternate / S. Philipines / N. Borneo approaches.

- Canoerebel
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RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
The decision about where I'm going is a pretty complicated one, but I won't be going into the Philippines in the near future, that's for sure (unless Steve did something crazy like commit the KB to the Bay of Bengal or the Aleutians).
The KB is at maximum power now while the Aliled carrier fleet is still at July 1942 levels - outnumbered and outgunned. I'm not going to stick my nose into a hornet's nest. It is unlikely that the Allies will be able to move into the Philippines prior to mid 1943.
I think the Allies have the choice of three vectors of attack in the western reaches of map right now:
1. South China Sea - the epicenter of Japanese air and sea power. Only one target makes sense - Kuching. That would be a relatively safe undertaking due to proximity, but it is stoutly defended meaning a large Allied army must be committed there. That doesn't make sense if the Allies could better use those troops to make deeper inroads elsewhere.
2. Makassar Straits and Balikpapan: I like this idea, but Steve should see it coming. It is far enough in advance of the closest Allied airfield that the Allies would be outgunned unless a successful maskirovka were used to draw Steve into the South China Sea.
3. Consolidate in the eastern DEI and hit the Celebes: The risk of ambush will be low due to a strong network of airbases; I think the Allies can successfully spring the carriers and amphibious ships into the region before Steve is aware of what's happening. The establishment of good garrisons at multiple bases in the Celebes, joined with the Allied move on Sampit (and probably Banjermasin) in the west and the various island in the east gives the Allies very broad shoulders, isolates Java and Timor, and puts Balikpapan in close proximity of major bases.
The KB is at maximum power now while the Aliled carrier fleet is still at July 1942 levels - outnumbered and outgunned. I'm not going to stick my nose into a hornet's nest. It is unlikely that the Allies will be able to move into the Philippines prior to mid 1943.
I think the Allies have the choice of three vectors of attack in the western reaches of map right now:
1. South China Sea - the epicenter of Japanese air and sea power. Only one target makes sense - Kuching. That would be a relatively safe undertaking due to proximity, but it is stoutly defended meaning a large Allied army must be committed there. That doesn't make sense if the Allies could better use those troops to make deeper inroads elsewhere.
2. Makassar Straits and Balikpapan: I like this idea, but Steve should see it coming. It is far enough in advance of the closest Allied airfield that the Allies would be outgunned unless a successful maskirovka were used to draw Steve into the South China Sea.
3. Consolidate in the eastern DEI and hit the Celebes: The risk of ambush will be low due to a strong network of airbases; I think the Allies can successfully spring the carriers and amphibious ships into the region before Steve is aware of what's happening. The establishment of good garrisons at multiple bases in the Celebes, joined with the Allied move on Sampit (and probably Banjermasin) in the west and the various island in the east gives the Allies very broad shoulders, isolates Java and Timor, and puts Balikpapan in close proximity of major bases.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
- ny59giants
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RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
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RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
I tend to agree with ChickenBoy. Taking the eastern DEI should serve as well as taking Celebes to: 1) interrupt the SLoC back to Japan; and 2) build bases in 4E range of Balikpapan, Samarinda and Tarakan. I see no problem over time widening the shoulder of your eastern DEI thrust (especially if you rule out a move on the PI, a ruling out I might re-consider) to include Celebes to obtain bases within fighter escort range of the oil bases, but I wouldn't dissipate your eastern move to do so now.

RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
CR, since you are just starting 1943, I really think that the eastern DEI/Celebes might be a good play. It is akin to "developing your pieces" in the early part of a chess game. As successful as you have been, ther emight be a tendency to rush things. Is there really any reason to rush your opponent to increase the tempi? I really don't think so. That just adds more risk.
Another thought on continuing the eastern DEI base development and preparing to invade the Celebes is that success in that endeavor really isolates Java and all the Little Yellow Bastards occupying it. That might be a sizable hoard that will likely end up staying as unwanted visitors for the duration of the war...or sunk to the bottom of the Java Sea trying to redeploy.
But, I agree with those that remind you that oil is the objective. As such, building a couple of nice, large bomber bases in the morass of bases you will soon own within easy range to Balikpapan, Ambon and Tarakan will further dent his oil reserves. In fact, Ambon could easily just be absorbed without a lot of trouble once you have totally isolated it. Nice place to practice on with your new bombers:).
From a risk reward point of view, I tend to favor the eastern DEI/Celebes approach. It is much less likely to be as risky as a direct assault on Balikpapan. You'd probably take it on the direct approach, but if you can by pass it while sinking tankers trying to remove the oil, that is better than fighting for a heavily defended objective. When you are ready, bring all those new bases in the easstern DEI to life, build some of them ASAP to larger bases and move on the Celebese in as close to a simultaneous manner as you can.
Good luck. Whatever you decide, you're probably going to spend the next 4-6 months executing it, so choose wisely.
Another thought on continuing the eastern DEI base development and preparing to invade the Celebes is that success in that endeavor really isolates Java and all the Little Yellow Bastards occupying it. That might be a sizable hoard that will likely end up staying as unwanted visitors for the duration of the war...or sunk to the bottom of the Java Sea trying to redeploy.
But, I agree with those that remind you that oil is the objective. As such, building a couple of nice, large bomber bases in the morass of bases you will soon own within easy range to Balikpapan, Ambon and Tarakan will further dent his oil reserves. In fact, Ambon could easily just be absorbed without a lot of trouble once you have totally isolated it. Nice place to practice on with your new bombers:).
From a risk reward point of view, I tend to favor the eastern DEI/Celebes approach. It is much less likely to be as risky as a direct assault on Balikpapan. You'd probably take it on the direct approach, but if you can by pass it while sinking tankers trying to remove the oil, that is better than fighting for a heavily defended objective. When you are ready, bring all those new bases in the easstern DEI to life, build some of them ASAP to larger bases and move on the Celebese in as close to a simultaneous manner as you can.
Good luck. Whatever you decide, you're probably going to spend the next 4-6 months executing it, so choose wisely.
RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
The decision about where I'm going is a pretty complicated one, but I won't be going into the Philippines in the near future, that's for sure (unless Steve did something crazy like commit the KB to the Bay of Bengal or the Aleutians).
The KB is at maximum power now while the Aliled carrier fleet is still at July 1942 levels - outnumbered and outgunned. I'm not going to stick my nose into a hornet's nest. It is unlikely that the Allies will be able to move into the Philippines prior to mid 1943.
I think the Allies have the choice of three vectors of attack in the western reaches of map right now:
1. South China Sea - the epicenter of Japanese air and sea power. Only one target makes sense - Kuching. That would be a relatively safe undertaking due to proximity, but it is stoutly defended meaning a large Allied army must be committed there. That doesn't make sense if the Allies could better use those troops to make deeper inroads elsewhere.
2. Makassar Straits and Balikpapan: I like this idea, but Steve should see it coming. It is far enough in advance of the closest Allied airfield that the Allies would be outgunned unless a successful maskirovka were used to draw Steve into the South China Sea.
3. Consolidate in the eastern DEI and hit the Celebes: The risk of ambush will be low due to a strong network of airbases; I think the Allies can successfully spring the carriers and amphibious ships into the region before Steve is aware of what's happening. The establishment of good garrisons at multiple bases in the Celebes, joined with the Allied move on Sampit (and probably Banjermasin) in the west and the various island in the east gives the Allies very broad shoulders, isolates Java and Timor, and puts Balikpapan in close proximity of major bases.
I would suggest that you keep pushing until you hit something solid, dont overcommit and get stung. Celebes is a good target, but concentrate on the main bases rather than spread out. It then provides another line of approach to Borneo.
You may even see an evacuation from Java??
Dont write off the PI, Chez may only have a token force there as well.
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- Canoerebel
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RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
1/1/43
DEI: A Japanese TF is on a SW heading and closing on SW Borneo. Avengers damaged two of the ships today. I can't figure out what this might be. Steve has no prayer of accomplishing anything against the Aliled bases towards which the TF is coming unless he brings everything including the kitchen sink, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Over on Sumatra at Sibolga, the little Allied army tried a probing attack that came off at 1:1. A big armored unit will arrive tomorrow, so we'll try again the day after. This looks promising. The Allied carriers are retiring in the Bay of Bengal in preparation for moving east to support the operating against Celebes. D-Day is probably 15 to 20 days away. The Aliles will move on Banjermasin in the meantime (as soon as Sampit airfield reaches level two - probably five days or so).
Elsewhere: Quiet as the Allies continue behind the scense activity or, in the case of the eastern DEI, in front of the scenes activity.
DEI: A Japanese TF is on a SW heading and closing on SW Borneo. Avengers damaged two of the ships today. I can't figure out what this might be. Steve has no prayer of accomplishing anything against the Aliled bases towards which the TF is coming unless he brings everything including the kitchen sink, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Over on Sumatra at Sibolga, the little Allied army tried a probing attack that came off at 1:1. A big armored unit will arrive tomorrow, so we'll try again the day after. This looks promising. The Allied carriers are retiring in the Bay of Bengal in preparation for moving east to support the operating against Celebes. D-Day is probably 15 to 20 days away. The Aliles will move on Banjermasin in the meantime (as soon as Sampit airfield reaches level two - probably five days or so).
Elsewhere: Quiet as the Allies continue behind the scense activity or, in the case of the eastern DEI, in front of the scenes activity.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
- Canoerebel
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RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
1/2/43
Burma: The Allied attack against the dying IJ army at Magwe comes off at 18:1, but does surprisingly little damage. Later, I discover that I only had one unit attack. So we'll have everybody join in tomorrow to see if we can drive a stake through the heart of this beast. Still no IJ attack at Pegu. Lots of SigInt of enemy units bound for Tavoy and Georgetown.
Bay of Bengal: A Glen got a good sighting on an American carrier TF NE (true) of Ceylon. So Steve has had a bead on thee guys for several days now. Three CVEs will be moving up from Capetown in a few days. That will help me create a second mobile air platform to provide cover in more than one place.
Eastern DEI: Still no detection of nefarious Allied activity. A TF begins loading an Aussie battalion at Perth to carry to Waingapu, an island west of Timor. Sampit airfield is 77% to level two and should make that in three days. So I'm thinking the invasion of Bamjermais will get under at about that time.
Burma: The Allied attack against the dying IJ army at Magwe comes off at 18:1, but does surprisingly little damage. Later, I discover that I only had one unit attack. So we'll have everybody join in tomorrow to see if we can drive a stake through the heart of this beast. Still no IJ attack at Pegu. Lots of SigInt of enemy units bound for Tavoy and Georgetown.
Bay of Bengal: A Glen got a good sighting on an American carrier TF NE (true) of Ceylon. So Steve has had a bead on thee guys for several days now. Three CVEs will be moving up from Capetown in a few days. That will help me create a second mobile air platform to provide cover in more than one place.
Eastern DEI: Still no detection of nefarious Allied activity. A TF begins loading an Aussie battalion at Perth to carry to Waingapu, an island west of Timor. Sampit airfield is 77% to level two and should make that in three days. So I'm thinking the invasion of Bamjermais will get under at about that time.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
1/3/43 to 1/5/43
NoPac: The Allies are sending two Canadian battalions and a Marine CD unit to Onnekotan. This, at long last, is the beginning of the reinforcement efforts. I have two months to work with, so I had better get something done here. As usual, PP are the chokepoint. I need them in the DEI just as much.
Eastern DEI: A couple of Allied transport TFs are "retiring from enemy TF." I think they are just leary of a Japanese transport TF with embedded escorts at Manado. As best I can tell, none of my TFs has actually been detected yet. However, I just don't think that will last much longer. Today, a small troop transport TF arrived at Talaud Eilenden. It will begin unloading tonight. That's a few hexes south of Davao, for goodness sakes! An Aussie battalion bound for Waingapo (west of Timor) departed Perth; ETA a week.
The Challenge: The Allies have a huge front line right now - lots of territory with lots of bases requiring stout garrisons each. That's making it very difficult to find troops to commit to new operations. But, in order to free up troops in places like Sumatra, I need to move the front forward to create some depth. Anyhow, I have decided that Oosthaven is my best bet to draw down troops from. I may siphon off as much as 500 to 750 AV to commit to the Celebes operation. The American carriers are perhaps four days from being in position to allow that operation to commence.
Western DEI: Japanese shock attack at Singkep (island near Signapore) failed. It appears that the Allies are about to take Sibolga, which is a major step in the right direction. An IJ sub put a fish into BB Indiana, doing light damage. Sampit airfield goes to level two, so the Allies can invade Bamjermasin if I get an "all clear" (the troops transports are near Billiton Island at the moment).
SEAC: The Chicago TF has roughed up several IJ troop transport TFs making for Tavoy. The Allies were able to stabalize the situation at Pegu, so that I'm not concerned about imminent loss of that base or Moulmein. The Allies are having some difficulty in liquidating the isolated IJ army at Magwe, which is now fighting with an adjusted AV of about 15. However, most damage inflicted is still "disabled" rather than "destroyed." But I get the feeling that is about to change.
NoPac: The Allies are sending two Canadian battalions and a Marine CD unit to Onnekotan. This, at long last, is the beginning of the reinforcement efforts. I have two months to work with, so I had better get something done here. As usual, PP are the chokepoint. I need them in the DEI just as much.
Eastern DEI: A couple of Allied transport TFs are "retiring from enemy TF." I think they are just leary of a Japanese transport TF with embedded escorts at Manado. As best I can tell, none of my TFs has actually been detected yet. However, I just don't think that will last much longer. Today, a small troop transport TF arrived at Talaud Eilenden. It will begin unloading tonight. That's a few hexes south of Davao, for goodness sakes! An Aussie battalion bound for Waingapo (west of Timor) departed Perth; ETA a week.
The Challenge: The Allies have a huge front line right now - lots of territory with lots of bases requiring stout garrisons each. That's making it very difficult to find troops to commit to new operations. But, in order to free up troops in places like Sumatra, I need to move the front forward to create some depth. Anyhow, I have decided that Oosthaven is my best bet to draw down troops from. I may siphon off as much as 500 to 750 AV to commit to the Celebes operation. The American carriers are perhaps four days from being in position to allow that operation to commence.
Western DEI: Japanese shock attack at Singkep (island near Signapore) failed. It appears that the Allies are about to take Sibolga, which is a major step in the right direction. An IJ sub put a fish into BB Indiana, doing light damage. Sampit airfield goes to level two, so the Allies can invade Bamjermasin if I get an "all clear" (the troops transports are near Billiton Island at the moment).
SEAC: The Chicago TF has roughed up several IJ troop transport TFs making for Tavoy. The Allies were able to stabalize the situation at Pegu, so that I'm not concerned about imminent loss of that base or Moulmein. The Allies are having some difficulty in liquidating the isolated IJ army at Magwe, which is now fighting with an adjusted AV of about 15. However, most damage inflicted is still "disabled" rather than "destroyed." But I get the feeling that is about to change.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
1/6/42
Battle of Singkep: See screen shot for detailed information about a sharp naval engagement in the South China Sea. The Allies lose CA San Francisco, but probabyl put a fair number of enemy ships in the yards for a few weeks or more. The engagemnent was a long one, starting with (1) the IJ TF demolishes an xAKL supply TF; (2) the IJ TF sinks a couple of PT boats; (3) the CA Hawkins TF comes in but then disengages without firing a shot; (4) the CA San Fran group mixes it up with the enemy (commander Ching Lee survives the fray); (5) the BB Valiant TF arrives to late to get in on the action 9but will pursue the depleted enemy TF tonight).
Sumatra: The Allies get another 2:1 at Sibolga, but still fail to claim the base. We'll try again tomorrow.
Eastern DEI: Still no signs of enemy detection of ongoing Allied operations. A small Aussie unit is at Talaud Eilenden. Troops to take part in the big Aliled incursion into the Celebes are reporting to Oosthaven, the port of embarkation. The bases to be occupied are still under Allied control, so I can't call this an invasion...but it has all the earmarkings of one. IN addition to occupying four or five bases in Celebes, the Allies will sniff out chances to move on Makassar and Kendari and will occupy a number of bases to the south, including Salajar and Waingapo.
Burma: This time the Allied deliberate attack results in enemy squads mainly destroyed rather than disabled. The end is drawing closer.

Battle of Singkep: See screen shot for detailed information about a sharp naval engagement in the South China Sea. The Allies lose CA San Francisco, but probabyl put a fair number of enemy ships in the yards for a few weeks or more. The engagemnent was a long one, starting with (1) the IJ TF demolishes an xAKL supply TF; (2) the IJ TF sinks a couple of PT boats; (3) the CA Hawkins TF comes in but then disengages without firing a shot; (4) the CA San Fran group mixes it up with the enemy (commander Ching Lee survives the fray); (5) the BB Valiant TF arrives to late to get in on the action 9but will pursue the depleted enemy TF tonight).
Sumatra: The Allies get another 2:1 at Sibolga, but still fail to claim the base. We'll try again tomorrow.
Eastern DEI: Still no signs of enemy detection of ongoing Allied operations. A small Aussie unit is at Talaud Eilenden. Troops to take part in the big Aliled incursion into the Celebes are reporting to Oosthaven, the port of embarkation. The bases to be occupied are still under Allied control, so I can't call this an invasion...but it has all the earmarkings of one. IN addition to occupying four or five bases in Celebes, the Allies will sniff out chances to move on Makassar and Kendari and will occupy a number of bases to the south, including Salajar and Waingapo.
Burma: This time the Allied deliberate attack results in enemy squads mainly destroyed rather than disabled. The end is drawing closer.

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RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
Yes, it is too large.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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RE: Das darf nicht wahr sein!
(5) the BB Valiant TF arrives to late to get in on the action 9but will pursue the depleted enemy TF tonight).
Valiant Vs. Musashi -- that should be interesting.

I have to wonder about including a CLAA in your force. (Granted, it has the speed, but not the armor or shell weight.) Let's hope most of the 33 hits on Musashi did *not* come from Juneau.
Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?
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