Command Ops: Battles From The Bulge takes the highly acclaimed Airborne Assault engine back to the West Front for the crucial engagements during the Ardennes Offensive. Test your command skills in the fiery crucible of Airborne Assault’s “pausable continuous time” uber-realistic game engine. It's up to you to develop the strategy, issue the orders, set the pace, and try to win the laurels of victory in the cold, shadowy Ardennes.
Command Ops: Highway to the Reich brings us to the setting of one of the most epic and controversial battles of World War II: Operation Market-Garden, covering every major engagement along Hell’s Highway, from the surprise capture of Joe’s Bridge by the Irish Guards a week before the offensive to the final battles on “The Island” south of Arnhem.
ORIGINAL: Perturabo
Anyway, GAHAHAHAHAHA![:D]
The amount of butthurt in this thread is hilarious.
So, basically, western people won't buy what is probably one of the best wargames ever made because they would have to flip burgers for 11hours to buy it instead of 7 hours. Oh God, it's 4 hours of burger-flipping more, it's unbearable!
Well, guess what? In real world...
Dunno in your "real world", but in mine there are students, elders, veterans with disabilities and living off a pension, people who are struggling or have just lost their job, and, yes, people for which burger-flipping (or coal mining) is hazardous for their health - but still it is their best option to make a living. And I don't find anything to laugh about this.
You know I did post some arguments against this price earlier in this thread but some of the comments coming through now seem to me to be quite removed from reality that I gave in a bought the game - and very nice it is too.
You or I have no divine right to the game at a particular price - the developer stated what he wanted to sell the game at and thats fair enough - if you dont like the price - dont buy the game. what I dont get is the general feeling that people feel they have somehow been stabbed in the back. Its a product - sold to make money - in what world does that mean it has to be sold at a level everyone can afford or even one everyone is prepared to pay ?
I dont sit on the ferarri forums - to use a now infamous analogy - and post about how its so unfair that their cars are too expensive for me ? Sorry but I just dont get the logic here - Matrix are a business - the price may indeed prove to be a bad move, but thats their decision and thier problem. I read in the merger press release that the two companies combined are looking at a turnover of around 12 million dollars. OK - so thats not exactly a merchant bank - but it aint exactly a garage sale industry either.
Perhaps instead of looking at matrix and what they sell as some kind of cosy club it would be easier if we all just realized they - like any other business have to make money to make it worthwhile - and not take the price of this game so freaking personally.
ORIGINAL: Perturabo
Anyway, GAHAHAHAHAHA![:D]
The amount of butthurt in this thread is hilarious.
So, basically, western people won't buy what is probably one of the best wargames ever made because they would have to flip burgers for 11hours to buy it instead of 7 hours. Oh God, it's 4 hours of burger-flipping more, it's unbearable!
Well, guess what? In real world...
Dunno in your "real world", but in mine there are students, elders, veterans with disabilities and living off a pension, people who are struggling or have just lost their job, and, yes, people for which burger-flipping (or coal mining) is hazardous for their health - but still it is their best option to make a living. And I don't find anything to laugh about this.
I also find that comment ignorant and immature and I agree its not funny.
Anyway, GAHAHAHAHAHA![:D]
The amount of butthurt in this thread is hilarious.
So, basically, western people won't buy what is probably one of the best wargames ever made because they would have to flip burgers for 11hours to buy it instead of 7 hours. Oh God, it's 4 hours of burger-flipping more, it's unbearable!
Who are these "western people" that you hold in such low regard? What "eastern" armpit did you crawl out of?
ORIGINAL: Perturabo
Anyway, GAHAHAHAHAHA![:D]
The amount of butthurt in this thread is hilarious.
So, basically, western people won't buy what is probably one of the best wargames ever made because they would have to flip burgers for 11hours to buy it instead of 7 hours. Oh God, it's 4 hours of burger-flipping more, it's unbearable!
Well, guess what? In real world...
Dunno in your "real world", but in mine there are students, elders, veterans with disabilities and living off a pension, people who are struggling or have just lost their job, and, yes, people for which burger-flipping (or coal mining) is hazardous for their health - but still it is their best option to make a living. And I don't find anything to laugh about this.
Really? You don't find it amusing that people moan despite that something in which 50 man-years of work were put into costs just 11 hours of work in a least paid job?
ORIGINAL: vonRocko
Who are these "western people" that you hold in such low regard? What "eastern" armpit did you crawl out of?
Panther Games has already explained it - they can't get more sales because of the niche market, so they need to sell it for higher price to make the whole work and research put into the game worthwhile.
This statement is self-fulfilling. By raising the price, their market (i.e. people willing to pay $90) becomes smaller.
It is a shame that, for a game that appears to be one of the best wargames ever, the opportunity was not taken to try to expand the size of the market by reaching out to potential customers that may have tried it at a lower price point.
ORIGINAL: Perturabo
Anyway, GAHAHAHAHAHA![:D]
The amount of butthurt in this thread is hilarious.
So, basically, western people won't buy what is probably one of the best wargames ever made because they would have to flip burgers for 11hours to buy it instead of 7 hours. Oh God, it's 4 hours of burger-flipping more, it's unbearable!
Well, guess what? In real world...
Dunno in your "real world", but in mine there are students, elders, veterans with disabilities and living off a pension, people who are struggling or have just lost their job, and, yes, people for which burger-flipping (or coal mining) is hazardous for their health - but still it is their best option to make a living. And I don't find anything to laugh about this.
Really? You don't find it amusing that people moan despite that something in which 50 man-years of work were put into costs just 11 hours of work in a least paid job?
ORIGINAL: vonRocko
Who are these "western people" that you hold in such low regard? What "eastern" armpit did you crawl out of?
Butthurt detected.
Sounds like Perturdo has never worked a day in his life....
Panther Games has already explained it - they can't get more sales because of the niche market, so they need to sell it for higher price to make the whole work and research put into the game worthwhile.
This statement is self-fulfilling. By raising the price, their market (i.e. people willing to pay $90) becomes smaller.
It is a shame that, for a game that appears to be one of the best wargames ever, the opportunity was not taken to try to expand the size of the market by reaching out to potential customers that may have tried it at a lower price point.
Exactly. As I mentioned in this post, a group of innovative independent developers sold well over $1.2 Million dollars in new sales in just over one week simply by letting the consumer determine the price they were willing to pay - whether it be $0.01 to $100.00 or more - whatever the consumer felt the games were worth to them. Matrix and Panther however, by cranking the price to an atypical higher level out of the gate, has vastly reduced the potential market for Command Ops: Bulge and have opened the door for criticism and negative reviews based on price alone. It's a shame; bad advice and plumb crazy if you ask me. I'll take free marketing, goodwill and a virtually limitless market anytime if I'm trying to market my goods. Let the market demand determine the price, especially when your distribution costs are negligible via electronic download.
There's a simple answer to every complex question - and it's wrong.
-Umberto Eco
Ok everyone, please keep things civil. I see some personal attacks starting above and I am asking you to all to stop that. We can disagree without insulting each other.
I don't mean this to be a personal comment on anyone here either but I have to ask - do the people here complaining about the price of this new game, play wargames? Here's some current day prices in our hobby:
GMT Games - The Battle for Normandy - Release 2009 - Price 2010 $150 USD
Avalanche Press - Panzer Grenadier Cassino 44 - Release 2009 - Price 2010 $99 USD
Multiman Publishing - Beyond Valor (no rules) - Release 1985 - Price 2010 $105 USD
Now some prices at my local shop in Australia, when its current sale soon ends:
GMT Games - The Battle for Normandy $180 AUD
GMT - 1914 Twilight in the East - $110 AUD
GMT - Combat Commander Pacific - $99 AUD
GMT - Europe Engulfed - $130 AUD
GMT - Serpents of the Seas - $95AUD
Lock n' Load Publishing - Heroes of the Blitzkreig - $110 AUD
Multiman Publishing - ASL Rulebook - $120 AUD
Losing faith in Matrix? Never buying a Panther game again? If you're a wargamer, then paying just $79.99 USD for Battles From the Bulge, is a no brainer. A lot of years, research and art has gone into making this one. In the board gaming world, these prices for mere paper and cardboard (made in China by the way) are nothing new.
I once argued about a decade ago that a game disc must be cheaper than a board game because, well, it's just a disc huh? But I soon learned what goes into a game like this new Panther release. Now I still haven't given up the insistence for a printed rule book to sweeten the cost - but given that most board games undergo many rule changes after printing - giving way to Living Rules via PDF, this argument may now be moot too.
I wasn't happy about the price $10 increase for COTA but still bought it.I felt that $59.99 was ok for the game. I have got my $59 out of it for sure. $79 is just too much for BFTB.
ORIGINAL: Dale H
... other than to say that if there was a short list of games worth $100 this Panther game/ battle sim would be high on that list (& has been).
Why?
ORIGINAL: Dale H
...
Is this the end of quality pc wargaming?
If the guys doing the games expect to get the same rates as they do for they gov work, then I think it might very well be.
Because of the experience playing. This is not a game, it is a battle simulator. For me as I was even just testing COTA I realized it was the ultimate wargaming experience & came as close as anything I had previously imagined the ideal wargame would be. I thought then it was way beyond anything else available in what it did. It was the wargame I would design if I ever had the chance. It had (almost all) the elements. Imagine how far it has come. That, for me, is worth way more than $100.
I gotta stick up for Erik and Matrix even though I think the price of this game is a mistake and the raising of the price of COTA and HTTR was a mistake (in retrospect). Would anybody be bitching about the price of COTA and HTTR being raised if BFTB was priced at 50-60 dollars? I doubt it. Now in retrospect it does add some stink to the pile made by BFTB pricing...but I do not believe for one instance that Matrix did this with anything but the good intentions of helping out a developer and getting a game to market that they thought we all had been waiting patiently for...for a long time, would buy and enjoy (everyone is happy). Matrix has not done anything I am aware of in the past other than support our hobby and bring to market a bunch of good (ok and a couple of stinkers) games from a diverse set of developers...at generally reasonable prices. Give them a break on this one.
I am another newcomer here, so I thought I'd chime in and give my perspective of a uni student.
I have been eyeing Matrix Games and (computer) wargaming for a number of years. COTA caught my interest some time ago, but Highway being the previous game on essentially the same engine (and with a strategy guide available), I went for Highway to ease myself into the series. I am by no means an expert on anything WW2-related and am a wargaming greenhorn, so this is why I bought the strategy guide as well, to familiarize myself with the setting, military structure and tactics.
I can honestly say I'm getting more than my money's worth of entertainment, and I'm still going through the tutorial. The game is golden. About the only thing I regret is not knowing that Bulge was coming out this week. Had I known that, I would have probably bought it first; especially in light of plans to remake HTTR and COTA in the Bulge engine.
I am still unsure how I feel about the price, but a day after release, I cancelled my pre-order of Elemental to use what little remains of my laughably small student budget along with the incoming stipend on Bulge. I got my first taste of pausable combat in Myth and Homeworld, both games being ones where proper tactics and good strategy were actually required to win the scenario. HTTR has the same quality, and if Bulge is at least as good as that, I know I'll be spending months, if not years, with the game. I am also looking forward to playing a multiplayer strategy game where the outcome is not determined by the number of mouse clicks and key presses in a minute.
I have absolutely no idea how I am going to save up for War in the East though, which is another must-have title for me. I only hope Matrix will price that one lower than this.
Welcome IDTS. I am just glad they didn't have these games available when I was in college. Also, you are certainly starting at the top of the wargaming ladder with your purchases. Have fun.
Thanks for the welcome. I had some other candidates as well, but the pausable realtime combat and the orders propagation did it for me. I also have to say that I find the 2D graphics of Bulge and WiTE beautiful.
I don't mean this to be a personal comment on anyone here either but I have to ask - do the people here complaining about the price of this new game, play wargames? Here's some current day prices in our hobby:
GMT Games - The Battle for Normandy - Release 2009 - Price 2010 $150 USD
Avalanche Press - Panzer Grenadier Cassino 44 - Release 2009 - Price 2010 $99 USD
Multiman Publishing - Beyond Valor (no rules) - Release 1985 - Price 2010 $105 USD
Now some prices at my local shop in Australia, when its current sale soon ends:
GMT Games - The Battle for Normandy $180 AUD
GMT - 1914 Twilight in the East - $110 AUD
GMT - Combat Commander Pacific - $99 AUD
GMT - Europe Engulfed - $130 AUD
GMT - Serpents of the Seas - $95AUD
Lock n' Load Publishing - Heroes of the Blitzkreig - $110 AUD
Multiman Publishing - ASL Rulebook - $120 AUD
Losing faith in Matrix? Never buying a Panther game again? If you're a wargamer, then paying just $79.99 USD for Battles From the Bulge, is a no brainer. A lot of years, research and art has gone into making this one. In the board gaming world, these prices for mere paper and cardboard (made in China by the way) are nothing new.
I once argued about a decade ago that a game disc must be cheaper than a board game because, well, it's just a disc huh? But I soon learned what goes into a game like this new Panther release. Now I still haven't given up the insistence for a printed rule book to sweeten the cost - but given that most board games undergo many rule changes after printing - giving way to Living Rules via PDF, this argument may now be moot too.
Amazing board wargamers still pay these rates for cardboard and simplistic rule sets. Quality Computer wargaming is the way to go. Hands down. Well since the 90's anyways
My Top Matrix Games 1) CMO MP?? 2) WITP/AE 3) SOW 4) Combat Mission 5) Armor Brigade
I read some of the replies but not all of them. I think what I'm about to say has been said by someone. But I still think that I should voice my opinion - so that you know, at least, there is one more guy thinks this way.
First of all, to the developers, I'd say you have done a exceptionally good job! From what I read on the forum, you really listened to your players and addressed their concerns. Many new features are exactly what I had in mind after playing COTA.
I understand perfectly that whatever you put into this game you need to get back out in terms of revenue. It is business and we all admit that. But I should also point out that selling to us ordinary consumers is not the only way this game can bring revenue for your business. You can perhaps also get defense contract, or get asked by some education/research institution to customize it for specific purposes, or anything else that generates cash flow. So why put the burden on us, ones with least "purchasing power"? You can charge $20,000 for a site license, e.g., for some military academy or research institution. They may happily pay it. With millions of research funding at hand, they are the ones with purchasing power.
Another thing is that to fully enjoy what the game engine is capable of, one needs considerable knowledge. Admit it, not everyone can tell the difference between your game and some $15 game. I tried to introduce the game to my friend but most of them just try it for an hour and give up, telling me that they don't know what's so special about the game and all they see is "non-fancy graphics". I guess the wise thing to do is to set a low price to attract more players. Only with an increasing user-base can you keep develop and improve the game itself.
Anyway, I personally would not spend this much on a computer game. It is just too much given the current economic condition. I don't even spend this much for two weeks of food now. I know it must be a good game. And I really get disappointed when I see the price. But anyway, keep up the good work.
Two other things:
1. Can you release a version without all the editors, call it something like "basic version" and sell at a lower price, like $29.99 or something?
2. It would be nice if the game supports multi-monitor, i.e., allow player to "unlock" the elements of the UI so that, for example, I can have a full screen map on one monitor and all other data on another monitor.
Losing faith in Matrix? Never buying a Panther game again? If you're a wargamer, then paying just $79.99 USD for Battles From the Bulge, is a no brainer. A lot of years, research and art has gone into making this one.
This title caught my eye because one of the 1st wargames I purchased was Avalon Hill's: Battle of the Bulge.
I am quite impressed by what I've seen in the game concepts video, but when I saw the price I was surprised to say the least.
I don't know what it is that makes any of us decide that something is or is not too expensive.
Personally, I have leaped without looking many times but I am trying to learn from my mistakes (FINALLY!)
That is why I am going to wait and see if this game lives up to it's potential by keeping an eye on this forum.
I am hoping that it turns out to be as good as it seems and that maybe sometime down the road the price will be dropped or that it is put on sale.
JJMC
The next best thing to being clever is being able to quote someone who is.
