Wild Sheep Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

[PaxMondo]

Enjoy OZ!!!

[obvert]

Sitting now in the airport at Brunei. Very odd little place transitioning from the 60s into the new millenium. Amazing to think I'm sitting for a few hours in Borneo, so near these amazing jungles and wildlife here. Maybe one day I'll stop off and stay a few days.

So far I've already been on two flights. Managed to sleep and see a few films. Captain Phillips was pretty good. The Phantom wasn't so great. A bit stiff. Also finished off The East, which I'd started a few weeks ago on a flight back from Christmas in the States. Thought that was quite good.

Thought I might do an update but we'll see if this posts. The internet is not the quickest. Here we go.

[obvert]

Well, here in OZ. About to fix the TV aerial on the roof of the family house here in Melbourne but of course a shower rolled in, one of the first in months after a strong of hot weather I hear. Feels great to have the heat broken by the winds blowing in rain across a dusty street, the sound of drops building to a crescendo on the tin roof. It's sheets now, everything soaked. Nice.

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]9 June 1945[/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thought I might as well do the update for the 9th at last.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]KOREA: [/font] The troops are just about to Gunzan, and will settle in for a long defense. Most air groups are out and back to the Home Islands. Just a good CAP left at Fusan so I can keep using the port. Got most of the air support back as well to Shimoneseki.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]STRAT BOMBING:[/font] The destruction of the Shinden factory is a disappointment, but not unexpected. The Sams ask got hit, and even just a few bombs on target can destroy up to 10-15 points of the factory. So for those Allied players out there having trouble with Japanese production numbers, just get in range and start hitting the factories. It's not too tough to wipe out the Japanese economy relatively quickly, even if the cost is high in airframes. If the Allies used their 2Es on airfields now we'd be in trouble, but that hasn't happened so far.

Looks like maybe 10-12 B-29s destroyed on the day, but for around 30 NF. Not a good ratio at all. Also got to a good few A-26 even though the first ones were escorted. The Privateers take the biggest hit, with around 30-35 downed on the day. Hopefully these days will take their toll and the day bombing will have to come sporadically. I have seen a move to include the Brits and other 4Es that were recently in China at Saisho To, so hopefully that means other groups are low on planes.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]HOME ISLANDS: [/font] Supply is still the issue, and it's nearly impossible to get big bases into the range to use torps, even when the HQs have plenty of them. I still don't understand that rule much. There are enough torps, but we can't use them? Hmmmm.

The CAP was hit a bit today, but over most bases is still strong. Everything to from Oita East uses mutually supporting CAP over 2-3 hexes, but for Nagasaki, Kumamoto and Kagoshima I can't do this as it'll end up getting swept around the edges no the offshore islands, piece by piece.

One Dave kami flying hit an AP at Amami-Oshima, which was fun. [:)]

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]CHINA: [/font] The slow fade continues here. It's all pretty meaningless in China at this point.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 9, 45 - NIGHT
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TF 77 encounters mine field at Shimonoseki (104,57)

Japanese Ships
AMc Ma 4

36 mines cleared

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Night Air attack on Tsu , at 110,60

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 12
J1N1-Sa Irving x 11
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah x 43

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 3
B-29-25 Superfort x 54
B-29B Superfort x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 1 damaged

J7W1 Shinden factory hits 8

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 8000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Tsu , at 110,60

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 32 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 7
J1N1-Sa Irving x 11
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah x 32

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 8000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Tsu , at 110,60

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 3
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah x 6

Allied aircraft
B-29B Superfort x 5

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29B Superfort: 2 damaged

J7W1 Shinden factory hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 8000 feet *
City Attack: 18 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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TF 77 encounters mine field at Shimonoseki (104,57)

Japanese Ships
AMc Ma 4, Mine hits 1, heavy damage

36 mines cleared

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 9, 45 - MORNING
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Okayama , at 108,58

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 49 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 15
A6M5b Zero x 27
A7M2 Sam x 7
J2M3 Jack x 22
N1K1 Rex x 6
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 20
Ki-100-I Tony x 53
Ki-102b Randy x 14

Allied aircraft
P-47N Thunderbolt x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed
A6M5b Zero: 2 destroyed
J2M3 Jack: 2 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 2 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47N Thunderbolt: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x P-47N Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Okayama , at 108,58

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 23 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 10
A6M5b Zero x 19
A7M2 Sam x 6
J2M3 Jack x 14
N1K1 Rex x 3
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 17
Ki-100-I Tony x 44
Ki-102b Randy x 8

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 4 destroyed, 12 damaged
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 1 destroyed by flak


Aircraft Attacking:
8 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 12000 feet
City Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Banzai! - Inokuchi V. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a PB4Y-2 Privateer for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Okayama , at 108,58

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 8
A6M5b Zero x 17
A7M2 Sam x 4
J2M3 Jack x 9
N1K1 Rex x 3
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 12
Ki-100-I Tony x 36
Ki-102b Randy x 6

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 12000 feet
City Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Banzai! - Gyuba U. in a Ki-43-IV Oscar rams a PB4Y-2 Privateer for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 108th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 99,55 (Saishu To)

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 3
B-17E Fortress x 5
B-17F Fortress x 10
B-24D Liberator x 5
B-24D1 Liberator x 15
B-24J Liberator x 146
B-25J11 Mitchell x 5
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 9

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
908 casualties reported
Squads: 69 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 68 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 25 (18 destroyed, 7 disabled) Seriously. Why land? Just bomb until the troops are gone and let the rowboat corps take it! [8|]

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Okayama , at 108,58

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 9 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 8
A6M5b Zero x 11
A7M2 Sam x 1
J2M3 Jack x 6
N1K1 Rex x 3
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 7
Ki-100-I Tony x 33
Ki-102b Randy x 4

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 8

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 5 damaged

A7M2 Sam factory hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 12000 feet
City Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Okayama , at 108,58

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 32 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 5
A6M5b Zero x 9
J2M3 Jack x 6
N1K1 Rex x 3
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 6
Ki-100-I Tony x 32
Ki-102b Randy x 4

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 8

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 2 destroyed, 5 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 12000 feet
City Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Okayama , at 108,58

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 4
A6M5b Zero x 6
J2M3 Jack x 5
N1K1 Rex x 2
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 3
Ki-100-I Tony x 25
Ki-102b Randy x 3

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 8 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 12000 feet
City Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Banzai! - Hirata T. in a A6M5 Zero rams a PB4Y-2 Privateer for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Okayama , at 108,58

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 3
A6M5b Zero x 3
J2M3 Jack x 3
N1K1 Rex x 2
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 3
Ki-100-I Tony x 15
Ki-102b Randy x 1

Allied aircraft
A-26B Invader x 43
P-51D Mustang x 50

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
N1K1 Rex: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
A-26B Invader: 2 destroyed, 11 damaged

A7M2 Sam factory hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x A-26B Invader bombing from 12000 feet *
City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kumamoto , at 102,59

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 8
A7M2 Sam x 3
J2M5 Jack x 25
N1K2-J George x 24
Ki-84r Frank x 13

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 46
Liberator GR.VI x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 3 destroyed, 13 damaged
Liberator B.VI: 1 destroyed by flak
Liberator GR.VI: 4 destroyed, 9 damaged

Light Industry hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Liberator B.VI bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kumamoto , at 102,59

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 5
A7M2 Sam x 2
J2M5 Jack x 15
N1K2-J George x 10
Ki-84r Frank x 8

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 1 destroyed, 8 damaged
Liberator B.VI: 1 destroyed by flak

Light Industry hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Liberator B.VI bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Morning Air attack on Kumamoto , at 102,59

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 2
A7M2 Sam x 1
J2M5 Jack x 8
N1K2-J George x 6
Ki-84r Frank x 7

Allied aircraft
P-38L Lightning x 10
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38L Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Okayama , at 108,58

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 21 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 2
A6M5b Zero x 2
J2M3 Jack x 3
N1K1 Rex x 1
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 3
Ki-100-I Tony x 10

Allied aircraft
A-26B Invader x 23
P-38L Lightning x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
A-26B Invader: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged

A7M2 Sam factory hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x A-26B Invader bombing from 12000 feet *
City Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Okayama , at 108,58

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 23 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 2
A6M5b Zero x 1
J2M3 Jack x 1
N1K1 Rex x 1
Ki-100-I Tony x 3

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 88 Glad these didn't come in first!!

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
N1K1 Rex: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x P-51D Mustang sweeping at 32000 feet
24 x P-51D Mustang sweeping at 32000 feet
19 x P-51D Mustang sweeping at 32000 feet
19 x P-51D Mustang sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Okayama , at 108,58

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 40

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x P-51D Mustang sweeping at 32000 feet
20 x P-51D Mustang sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kumamoto , at 102,59

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 1
J2M5 Jack x 3
N1K2-J George x 1
Ki-84r Frank x 2

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 35

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 2 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet
11 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet
6 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet
6 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet
2 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 9, 45 - AFTERNOON
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Amami Oshima at 98,64

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 22 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
E8N2 Dave x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
E8N2 Dave: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
AP Gen. R.L.Howze, Kamikaze hits 1[:D]

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x E8N2 Dave flying as kamikaze *
Kamikaze: 2 x 30 kg GP Bomb

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 9, 45 - GROUND
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Tsuyung (68,46)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 42705 troops, 870 guns, 538 vehicles, Assault Value = 836

Defending force 22917 troops, 307 guns, 78 vehicles, Assault Value = 506

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Allied adjusted assault: 962

Japanese adjusted defense: 607

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1402 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 68 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 21 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 22 disabled
Guns lost 20 (3 destroyed, 17 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
787 casualties reported
Squads: 23 destroyed, 49 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 32 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 23 disabled

Assaulting units:
7th Indian Division
23rd Indian Division
25th Indian Division
8th New Chinese Corps
23rd AA Bde
3rd West African AA Regiment
2nd West African AA Regiment
1st Burma Auxiliary AA Regiment
56th Heavy Regiment
88th Medium Regiment
117th RAF Base Force
104th RAF Base Force
4th West African AA Regiment
2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment

Defending units:
104th Division
40th Division
37th Division
9th Ind.Mixed Brigade
23rd JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/font]

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[font="Trebuchet MS"]The Gen RL Howze. I'm sure one Dave float plane hit didn't do much, but it's still [/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[Gaspote]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 9, 45 - AFTERNOON
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Amami Oshima at 98,64

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 22 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
E8N2 Dave x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
E8N2 Dave: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
AP Gen. R.L.Howze, Kamikaze hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x E8N2 Dave flying as kamikaze *
Kamikaze: 2 x 30 kg GP Bomb

100% success rate [&o]

[spence]

This ship means business! I haven't looked recently, but I wonder what the experience levels are for the BBS and other surface ships that have been around since the beginning?

No doubt grossly overrated. IRL the performance of the IJN BBs was pretty close to abysmal in all their engagements. Not one of them had ever fired a shot in anger on 12/07/1941 and such practice engagements as any of them fought subsequently do nothing whatever to justify any especially high experience level. ISE and HYUGA both suffered significant non-combat materiel casualties in early 42. Mutsu blew up spontaneously in 43. Yamashiro and Fuso's only engagement does little to inspire anything positive. KIRISHIMA and HIEI beat a USN cruiser TF but failed to complete their mission (not mention that HIEI subsequently became "a source of infinite pride for the Emperor"). Of course the KIRISHIMA did the same a few nights later in its second engagement. And then there is the Battle off Samar" wherein 4 IJN BBs had their ultimate chance for glory and failed miserably (unless ont thinks that trading 3 of their screening cruisers for a CVE, a DE and a couple of DDs was worth it).

IRL the practice that the IJN CAs/CLs/DDs had in night combat exercises pre-war does seemingly justify a higher experience level for those IJN ship types vs corresponding American types. It should be noted however that no significant proportion of the IJN crews and captains of any type had actually "seen the elephant" when they went to war. IJN doctrine caused the IJN light ships to take a more aggressive role against the "enemy" (US) battleline in night combat as exemplified in the Solomons while US doctrine emphasized screening said battleline in those same engagements.

(The Brits and their Commonwealth Allies' ships had for the most part seen real (not exercise) combat. With England stretched thin strategically those ships had mostly "seen the elephant" in multiple ways and on multiple occasions.)

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: spence

This ship means business! I haven't looked recently, but I wonder what the experience levels are for the BBS and other surface ships that have been around since the beginning?

No doubt grossly overrated. IRL the performance of the IJN BBs was pretty close to abysmal in all their engagements. Not one of them had ever fired a shot in anger on 12/07/1941 and such practice engagements as any of them fought subsequently do nothing whatever to justify any especially high experience level. ISE and HYUGA both suffered significant non-combat materiel casualties in early 42. Mutsu blew up spontaneously in 43. Yamashiro and Fuso's only engagement does little to inspire anything positive. KIRISHIMA and HIEI beat a USN cruiser TF but failed to complete their mission (not mention that HIEI subsequently became "a source of infinite pride for the Emperor"). Of course the KIRISHIMA did the same a few nights later in its second engagement. And then there is the Battle off Samar" wherein 4 IJN BBs had their ultimate chance for glory and failed miserably (unless ont thinks that trading 3 of their screening cruisers for a CVE, a DE and a couple of DDs was worth it).

IRL the practice that the IJN CAs/CLs/DDs had in night combat exercises pre-war does seemingly justify a higher experience level for those IJN ship types vs corresponding American types. It should be noted however that no significant proportion of the IJN crews and captains of any type had actually "seen the elephant" when they went to war. IJN doctrine caused the IJN light ships to take a more aggressive role against the "enemy" (US) battleline in night combat as exemplified in the Solomons while US doctrine emphasized screening said battleline in those same engagements.

(The Brits and their Commonwealth Allies' ships had for the most part seen real (not exercise) combat. With England stretched thin strategically those ships had mostly "seen the elephant" in multiple ways and on multiple occasions.)

It is worth noting that the IJN had been on a war-footing since 1938 with the invasion of China. While they didn't exactly see much action against the Chinese Navy, the demands of a genuine war would probably drive experince up above their peacetime USN counter-parts, and both would be outshadowed by the British and Commonwealth ships (which had seen a real war with action).

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: spence

This ship means business! I haven't looked recently, but I wonder what the experience levels are for the BBS and other surface ships that have been around since the beginning?

No doubt grossly overrated. IRL the performance of the IJN BBs was pretty close to abysmal in all their engagements. Not one of them had ever fired a shot in anger on 12/07/1941 and such practice engagements as any of them fought subsequently do nothing whatever to justify any especially high experience level. ISE and HYUGA both suffered significant non-combat materiel casualties in early 42. Mutsu blew up spontaneously in 43. Yamashiro and Fuso's only engagement does little to inspire anything positive. KIRISHIMA and HIEI beat a USN cruiser TF but failed to complete their mission (not mention that HIEI subsequently became "a source of infinite pride for the Emperor"). Of course the KIRISHIMA did the same a few nights later in its second engagement. And then there is the Battle off Samar" wherein 4 IJN BBs had their ultimate chance for glory and failed miserably (unless ont thinks that trading 3 of their screening cruisers for a CVE, a DE and a couple of DDs was worth it).

IRL the practice that the IJN CAs/CLs/DDs had in night combat exercises pre-war does seemingly justify a higher experience level for those IJN ship types vs corresponding American types. It should be noted however that no significant proportion of the IJN crews and captains of any type had actually "seen the elephant" when they went to war. IJN doctrine caused the IJN light ships to take a more aggressive role against the "enemy" (US) battleline in night combat as exemplified in the Solomons while US doctrine emphasized screening said battleline in those same engagements.

(The Brits and their Commonwealth Allies' ships had for the most part seen real (not exercise) combat. With England stretched thin strategically those ships had mostly "seen the elephant" in multiple ways and on multiple occasions.)

It is worth noting that the IJN had been on a war-footing since 1938 with the invasion of China. While they didn't exactly see much action against the Chinese Navy, the demands of a genuine war would probably drive experince up above their peacetime USN counter-parts, and both would be outshadowed by the British and Commonwealth ships (which had seen a real war with action).

This, plus the older IJN crew (who would be on the BBs...) saw action against Russia in 1905. That's where Yamamoto lost his fingers. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that there were still over IJN careerists who were veterans of that battle.

Does anybody have a source for how intense IJN training was? I know how intense their pilot training was. I wouldn't be surprised if they trained up their other branches in a similar fashion.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: spence



No doubt grossly overrated. IRL the performance of the IJN BBs was pretty close to abysmal in all their engagements. Not one of them had ever fired a shot in anger on 12/07/1941 and such practice engagements as any of them fought subsequently do nothing whatever to justify any especially high experience level. ISE and HYUGA both suffered significant non-combat materiel casualties in early 42. Mutsu blew up spontaneously in 43. Yamashiro and Fuso's only engagement does little to inspire anything positive. KIRISHIMA and HIEI beat a USN cruiser TF but failed to complete their mission (not mention that HIEI subsequently became "a source of infinite pride for the Emperor"). Of course the KIRISHIMA did the same a few nights later in its second engagement. And then there is the Battle off Samar" wherein 4 IJN BBs had their ultimate chance for glory and failed miserably (unless ont thinks that trading 3 of their screening cruisers for a CVE, a DE and a couple of DDs was worth it).

IRL the practice that the IJN CAs/CLs/DDs had in night combat exercises pre-war does seemingly justify a higher experience level for those IJN ship types vs corresponding American types. It should be noted however that no significant proportion of the IJN crews and captains of any type had actually "seen the elephant" when they went to war. IJN doctrine caused the IJN light ships to take a more aggressive role against the "enemy" (US) battleline in night combat as exemplified in the Solomons while US doctrine emphasized screening said battleline in those same engagements.

(The Brits and their Commonwealth Allies' ships had for the most part seen real (not exercise) combat. With England stretched thin strategically those ships had mostly "seen the elephant" in multiple ways and on multiple occasions.)

It is worth noting that the IJN had been on a war-footing since 1938 with the invasion of China. While they didn't exactly see much action against the Chinese Navy, the demands of a genuine war would probably drive experince up above their peacetime USN counter-parts, and both would be outshadowed by the British and Commonwealth ships (which had seen a real war with action).

This, plus the older IJN crew (who would be on the BBs...) saw action against Russia in 1905. That's where Yamamoto lost his fingers. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that there were still over IJN careerists who were veterans of that battle.

To be fair, Yamamoto was in his twenties at Tsushima, and well in his fities by Pearl Harbour.

While this would be a nice age bracket for the more senior officers (in game terms, ship captains and TF commanders) it's not an ideal bracket for the ships crews themselves.

Sure, there would be some old-salts scattered amongst the IJN, but they wouldn't be as prolific as combat veterans from the RN or Commonwealth ships.

[spence]

This, plus the older IJN crew (who would be on the BBs...) saw action against Russia in 1905. That's where Yamamoto lost his fingers. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that there were still over IJN careerists who were veterans of that battle.

36 years is quite a reach for any but the most senior officers like Yamamoto. It is also perhaps notable that after Tsushima both naval armament and tactics had undergone a revolution with the advent of the dreadnaught type battleship Excepting the Kongo Class IJN BBs practiced daylight long range engagements a la Jutland. Such limited gunnery practice as they may have had in unfavorable weather did little to make itself apparent in their single daylight action (Samar).

(Gunnery practice was most assuredly limited too since each and every round fired through large caliber weapon changes the diameter of the bore and hence changes the ballistics of each subsequent round. Not exactly the same thing as plinking with a .22. It is expensive to change out the barrel liner of a 14/16/18" gun and it means taking the ship out of the OOB for a goodly while.)

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: spence

(Gunnery practice was most assuredly limited too since each and every round fired through large caliber weapon changes the diameter of the bore and hence changes the ballistics of each subsequent round. Not exactly the same thing as plinking with a .22. It is expensive to change out the barrel liner of a 14/16/18" gun and it means taking the ship out of the OOB for a goodly while.)

This inability to continually use these big guns day after day for months while bombarding and fighting major sea battles is not really modeled into the game. It would be really interesting if it were. It would slow the pace for both sides in naval engagements, and keep some ships heading back to the Home Islands or the West coast instead of being able to be fixed locally in many areas. That would be more fun for me, as then after some major battles you'd know certain ships might not be around for a while for either side, and would increase strategic planning to keep some big guns available in hard fought areas.

[spence]

The idea of "THE Decisive Battle" which was a feature of the thinking of the "Battleship Admirals" of all navies might then be a bit of doctrine that players would tend to think about and more importantly act on. Bombardments just for the fun of it would certainly go by the wayside.

I might add that it is curious that pilots gain skills in everything from dropping bombs to brushing their teeth but ships' crews have a universal experience level no matter what they practice, train for, engage in or survive.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: spence

... I might add that it is curious that pilots gain skills in everything from dropping bombs to brushing their teeth but ships' crews have a universal experience level no matter what they practice, train for, engage in or survive.

Ship crew experience does go up and down depending on the activity the ship is engaged on.

Alfred

[FeurerKrieg]

In game ship crews lose experience when they suffer casualties. I have documented this in my AAR.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: spence

(Gunnery practice was most assuredly limited too since each and every round fired through large caliber weapon changes the diameter of the bore and hence changes the ballistics of each subsequent round. Not exactly the same thing as plinking with a .22. It is expensive to change out the barrel liner of a 14/16/18" gun and it means taking the ship out of the OOB for a goodly while.)

This inability to continually use these big guns day after day for months while bombarding and fighting major sea battles is not really modeled into the game. It would be really interesting if it were. It would slow the pace for both sides in naval engagements, and keep some ships heading back to the Home Islands or the West coast instead of being able to be fixed locally in many areas. That would be more fun for me, as then after some major battles you'd know certain ships might not be around for a while for either side, and would increase strategic planning to keep some big guns available in hard fought areas.

I whined a great deal about this in the early days of AE-just too many surface fights and bombardments in the game. But the reality is that AE players tend to love surface battles (me included) and to have the ships act historically would curtail many of those bloody night fights that we all seem to love. The other effect would to increase the importance of air power over that of surface ships which was more to the tune of historical reality as well. However, after five years I have grown to accept the trade off of more action at a cost of reality. Night naval battles are so much more fun than carrier battles.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: spence

(Gunnery practice was most assuredly limited too since each and every round fired through large caliber weapon changes the diameter of the bore and hence changes the ballistics of each subsequent round. Not exactly the same thing as plinking with a .22. It is expensive to change out the barrel liner of a 14/16/18" gun and it means taking the ship out of the OOB for a goodly while.)

This inability to continually use these big guns day after day for months while bombarding and fighting major sea battles is not really modeled into the game. It would be really interesting if it were. It would slow the pace for both sides in naval engagements, and keep some ships heading back to the Home Islands or the West coast instead of being able to be fixed locally in many areas. That would be more fun for me, as then after some major battles you'd know certain ships might not be around for a while for either side, and would increase strategic planning to keep some big guns available in hard fought areas.

I whined a great deal about this in the early days of AE-just too many surface fights and bombardments in the game. But the reality is that AE players tend to love surface battles (me included) and to have the ships act historically would curtail many of those bloody night fights that we all seem to love. The other effect would to increase the importance of air power over that of surface ships which was more to the tune of historical reality as well. However, after five years I have grown to accept the trade off of more action at a cost of reality. Night naval battles are so much more fun than carrier battles.

I love the battles, but I think I'd love the strategy of having to be concerned with overuse of the big gun tubes as well. Anything to slow the pace is good, and since naval bombardments (equally, for both sides) are a tad too strong limiting them seems like it would be a good thing. How often do you see players for either side use naval air power to hit airfields and ports, except the occasional surprise? Yet this was the most important weapon of the war against all targets for the Allies especially.

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]10 June 1945[/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Got back from OZ yesterday after a mammoth 35 hour journey. A delay hit us in Brunei and we spent 8 extra hours there between flights. Didn't get to see much unfortunately. Home now and a bit shattered, but the war resumes with a relatively quiet turn.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]KOREA: [/font] More troops heading in to Gunzan to shore the defenses up there. The Allies move to within one hex and should have their entire army in the hex in 3-4 days if they chose to.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]STRAT BOMBING:[/font] Nothing today.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]HOME ISLANDS: [/font] Big sweeps hit Kumamoto, but no bombers. i wonder if this was intentional or if they were rained out. The first Corsair sweep crushed the CAP, and still the small P-47 groups coming later didn't do well. On the day it looks like 40 of ours lost for 25 of theirs. Only 15 pilots KIA though, so a good day there.

Groups are still recovering all over the HI, and it will be 3-4 days before the defenses are really at their best performance.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]CHINA: [/font] Changsha falls. Sucks. Without supply here it's tough to do much.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 10, 45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kumamoto , at 102,59

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 17 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 7
A6M8 Zero x 7
A7M2 Sam x 17
J2M5 Jack x 8
N1K2-J George x 10
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 5
Ki-84r Frank x 12
Ki-100-I Tony x 11

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 41

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 2 destroyed
A6M8 Zero: 3 destroyed
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kumamoto , at 102,59

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 15 NM, estimated altitude 32,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 2
A6M8 Zero x 3
A7M2 Sam x 14
J2M5 Jack x 6
N1K2-J George x 6
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 1
Ki-84r Frank x 9
Ki-100-I Tony x 6

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 4 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kumamoto , at 102,59

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 28 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 2
A7M2 Sam x 6
J2M5 Jack x 3
N1K2-J George x 4
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 1
Ki-84r Frank x 8
Ki-100-I Tony x 3

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kumamoto , at 102,59

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 48 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 1
A7M2 Sam x 3
J2M5 Jack x 1
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 1
Ki-84r Frank x 3

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Saishu To , at 99,55

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 35

No Japanese losses

Port hits 4
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
35 x P1Y2 Frances bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kumamoto , at 102,59

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 63 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Allied aircraft
F-6D Mustang x 25
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 70

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
21 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet
22 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet
25 x F-6D Mustang sweeping at 32000 feet *
23 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet
4 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 32000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Changsha (82,52)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 60859 troops, 1027 guns, 2246 vehicles, Assault Value = 2704

Defending force 28419 troops, 280 guns, 31 vehicles, Assault Value = 558

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Allied adjusted assault: 2083

Japanese adjusted defense: 285

Allied assault odds: 7 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied forces CAPTURE Changsha !!!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-46-III Dinah: 4 destroyed

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), disruption(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
9629 casualties reported
Squads: 254 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 465 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 70 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 127 (127 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 24 (24 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 10

Allied ground losses:
658 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 104 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 32 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled
Vehicles lost 33 (2 destroyed, 31 disabled)

Assaulting units:
Guides Cavalry Regiment
Provisionl Tank Brigade
50th Tank Brigade
254th Armoured Brigade
Gardner's Horse Regiment
3rd Cavalry Regiment
19th Motorised Division
6th Australian Division
18th Cavalry Regiment
17th Motorised Division
255th Indian Tank Brigade
11th PAVO Regiment
9th Australian Division
14th Army
2/9th Field Regiment
2/11th Field Regiment
2/13th Field Regiment

Defending units:
65th Brigade
63rd Division
32nd Division
5th Ind.Mixed Brigade
51st Division
58th Infantry Regiment
13th RGC Temp./B Division
35th Division
56th Const Co
8th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
54th JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Tsuyung (68,46)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 42222 troops, 870 guns, 538 vehicles, Assault Value = 792

Defending force 21839 troops, 303 guns, 78 vehicles, Assault Value = 412

Allied adjusted assault: 27

Japanese adjusted defense: 607

Allied assault odds: 1 to 22 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
254 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 24 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled

Allied ground losses:
126 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 29 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Assaulting units:
23rd Indian Division
7th Indian Division
25th Indian Division
8th New Chinese Corps
1st Burma Auxiliary AA Regiment
3rd West African AA Regiment
2nd West African AA Regiment
104th RAF Base Force
4th West African AA Regiment
117th RAF Base Force
23rd AA Bde
88th Medium Regiment
56th Heavy Regiment
2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment

Defending units:
104th Division
37th Division
40th Division
9th Ind.Mixed Brigade
23rd JAAF AF Bn


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/font]

Reinforcements:

[font="Trebuchet MS"]234th Shinbu-tai arrives at Osaka/Kyoto
273rd Shinbu-tai arrives at Tokyo
274th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tokyo
60th Field AA Battalion arrives at Tokyo[/font]

Losses: none.

Ships Sunk:

[font="Trebuchet MS"]DMS Hopkins is reported to have been sunk near Bataan on Jan 02, 1945[/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[font="Trebuchet MS"]Air losses. [/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[obvert]

The 11th and 12th both had more action in the air, and it went very well for the IJ. On the 11th Corsairs hit Kagoshima where I'd just moved two very good Frank groups. [:)]

[obvert]

It would have been a stellar day if not for the new Spits that turned up, making it in the end just a good day. These are some tough planes.

[obvert]

Still, pretty good, and only 5 pilots KIA, which I'm sure is a lot less than for the Allies. These sweeping groups should be some of the best Allied pilots, so every one lost is a huge success.