New project: Spanish Civil war

[Bombur]

I´m editing a 80x80 map to include some sea areas, the Balearic Islands and Spanish Morocco. Spain itself will have about 45x45 hexes. I´m copying a TOAW map edited for the Spanish civil war but some areas must be added.

[Bombur]

Making some progress with the map.
In the SF creation, I´m having a few troubles. I would like to see if some of the community members could help me.
1-I need more detailed data on Spanish Navy minor ships. I got only data on BB´s and cruisers
2-I need data on the OOB of Spanish air force before the war. They had some obsolete fighters, but I can find neither types nor numbers much less how units went to Republican and Nationalist sides

[Bombur]

New unit added:

SM 79

[Westheim]

I'm very interested in this one - how about a screenshot of the map or the units or something else to help uncreative people (like me) imaginate the things you do? [:)]

[Delyn Locksmiths]

I was a mastermind contestant on TV here in the UK with the spanish civil war as my subject. IF you need any help with historical aspects, or are looking for a playtest opponent, give me a shout.
 
dewi@delynlocks.com

[Fargo]

Bombur; about spanish air force at july 18th.
The force is under Ministry of War, and has no military chief. So, the mostly began war under republican command.
There are over 300 planes dispensed in 3 squads; Barcelona, Madrid and Sevilla, each one whith 3 or 4 groups. The main plane is the Niueport 52 figther and the Breguet XIX for recon.

OOB

Republican fleet. 207 planes.
Madrid squadron, group airfields in Cuatro Vientos, Alcalá and Getafe (Madrid)
Barcelona squadron, group airfields in El Prat (Barcelona), San Javier and Cartagena(Murcia)

Nationalist fleet. 96 planes.
Madrid squadron, group airfields in Marin (Pontevedra) and Leon (Leon)
Barcelona squadron, group airfield in Recajo (Logroño)
Sevilla squadron, groups airfields in Tablada (Sevilla), Armilla (Granada), Larache, Tetuan and Atalayon (Morocco)

There are also a naval fleet, whith almost 100 sea planes (hydroplanes). Thier bases are Atalayon (natianalist, 10 planes) and Cartagena, San Javier and Barcelona (republicans, 85 planes)

[Fargo]

About spanish navy, at 1936 there are over 50 warships. After sublevation, the issue is:

Republicans, naval bases in Cartagena (Murcia), and Mahon (Menorca Island)
1 Battleship
3 Cruisers
9 Destroyers
12 submarines
6 Torpedo boats
3 Coastguards

Nationalists, naval bases in El Ferrol (La Coruña), Cadiz and Ceuta (Morocco)
1 Battleship
1 cruiser (2 more in construction)
1 destroyer
5 torpedo boats
6 coastguards

PD: i'm sorry for my poor english.

[Bombur]

Fargo and Delyn: thanks a lot for information. I will add the planes as you suggest, Fargo. It would be possible to get some information on DD and other minor ships classes for the Spanish Navy? If it isn´t possible, I will use generic classes (and will create special units for torpedo boats and coastguards). Is there any way to get info on what hydroplanes were flown by the Spanish air force? I´m going to use squadron scale (one SF unit=20 planes)

[Delyn Locksmiths]

Bombur, if you message me your postal address, I'll send you my maps and all my English notes (most of them were in Welsh) which I used to swot up for the programme. Also, as it's a game, maybe it would be good to start at a point before the battle lines were properly drawn. In the places where workers acted on their own initiative, and throught heir own organisations the civil guard and assault guard were quickly either won to the republican side or overpowered. Where the government stayed the workers hand, indecisivness cost towns, cities and barracks to the nationalists, then workers organisations were liquidated.

The war could have been won in the first few days by the Republic if it weren't for this indecisivness.

It would be good to have a rush for the cities or a random roll (balanced heavily in the workers favour in Barcelona and Madrid, against in Cadiz and Galicia) so that different games have different assets falling into the various hands.

It would also be good to offer a Liberation of Morocco event card. Had the Republican government offered independance to Morocco, it would surely have undermined Franco's army, and weakened his flow of troops.

[Delyn Locksmiths]

Bombur - hope this helps http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/iberia/1936/vehicles.htm

[Bombur]

ORIGINAL: Delyn Locksmiths

Bombur, if you message me your postal address, I'll send you my maps and all my English notes (most of them were in Welsh) which I used to swot up for the programme. Also, as it's a game, maybe it would be good to start at a point before the battle lines were properly drawn. In the places where workers acted on their own initiative, and throught heir own organisations the civil guard and assault guard were quickly either won to the republican side or overpowered. Where the government stayed the workers hand, indecisivness cost towns, cities and barracks to the nationalists, then workers organisations were liquidated.

The war could have been won in the first few days by the Republic if it weren't for this indecisivness.

It would be good to have a rush for the cities or a random roll (balanced heavily in the workers favour in Barcelona and Madrid, against in Cadiz and Galicia) so that different games have different assets falling into the various hands.

It would also be good to offer a Liberation of Morocco event card. Had the Republican government offered independance to Morocco, it would surely have undermined Franco's army, and weakened his flow of troops.

-Thank you for offer, I will send you the e-mail. I think you made some very important points. The worker´s organizations had a very important role in the defeat of the coup in many sites, but given the scale I´m working it will be hard to simulate urban combat, so I will start after the battle for the main cities were decided (I will set the date of 07/20/36 to scenario start). I think we won´t have a good game if republicans are allowed to win in first days. On the liberation of Morocco, this is a thing we can consider to put in the game. Anthony Beevor, in his book, argues that this option was not exercised to fear of upsetting the French (which were also colonial masters in Morocco). My guess is that the republicans may pay a (political) price for offering independence to Morocco, but I don´t know how to simulate this event in the game. Your suggestions are welcomed, of course.

[Bombur]

ORIGINAL: Delyn Locksmiths

Bombur - hope this helps http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/iberia/1936/vehicles.htm

-Thank you again, I took some of my unit graphics from this site

[Delyn Locksmiths]

ORIGINAL: Bombur


-Thank you for offer, I will send you the e-mail. I think you made some very important points. The worker´s organizations had a very important role in the defeat of the coup in many sites, but given the scale I´m working it will be hard to simulate urban combat, so I will start after the battle for the main cities were decided (I will set the date of 07/20/36 to scenario start). I think we won´t have a good game if republicans are allowed to win in first days.

I understand all your points here, and don't really know enough of the scenario editor to work out how to simulate them, and you're right, you can set the date to start after the Republic missed it's main chance. I just thought it would add some extra replay ability if the start position was different every time within certain variables. Perhaps some event cards to be played first turn, "defence" cards for the irregulars like "hold the alcazar" and "attack" cards for the republic like storming of the barracks in Madrid and Barcelona. Three cards each to be played and if both sides use a card for the same location "retreat to alcazar" and "storm the barracks" then it could revert to historical accuracy. But if the Republicans attacked barracks in Toledo, and instead of retreating to the alcazr the Nationalists chose "rising in Madrid" for example

Obviously - the republicans would be foolish not to use two of their cards to defend Madrid and Barcelona, but then with the nationalist player expecting that, perhaps the Republican would risk a bluff and greatly improve his position on the first day!

On the liberation of Morocco, this is a thing we can consider to put in the game. Anthony Beevor, in his book, argues that this option was not exercised to fear of upsetting the French (which were also colonial masters in Morocco). My guess is that the republicans may pay a (political) price for offering independence to Morocco, but I don´t know how to simulate this event in the game. Your suggestions are welcomed, of course.

Well historically the French government bottled it under pressure from British tories, but if you have a chance of French intervention then it could be lessened if a "Morroccan Liberation" card is played. But on the flip side, by losing the potential for extra european help they could guarantee less Moorish troops for Franco.

[Fargo]

The most of Destroyers was "Churruca" class, inspired in Royal Navy "Scott" class. Wiegth 1.600 tn; length 101 mts.; width 9.6 mts.; depth 3.3 mts.; speed 36 knots; crew 160 men; autonomy 4.500 miles (14 kn.); weaponry: 5 x 120mm/L.45; 1 x Flak (AA) 76,2 mm.; 6 torpedo tubes 530 mm.; 2 depth-charges launchers and 4 machine guns.

Regarding submarines, the main class was "C" class. Weigth 925 tn; length 73.3 mts.; width 6.3 mts.; depth 5.7 mts.; speed 16.5 knots in surface and 8.5 kn. undersea; maximum depth 90 mts.; crew 40 men; autonomy 6.800 miles (10 kn) or 3.200 miles (16 kn) in surface and 150 miles (4.5 kn) undersea.; weaponry: 6 torpedo tubes 530 mm. 4 at prow 2 at stern; 1 x flak (AA) 76mm./L.45 and 1 x gun 75 mm.

I'm very intersted in your job, Bombur. I'm looking for information about torpedo boats and coastguards.

[Bombur]

I will study how we could create a string of events involving the Moroccan option.
Units added:
Nieuport 52
Thanks to Fargo I found a great site (called memoria republicana) with an excellent equipment list. This will help a lot.

[Bombur]

-New unit added:
Breguet XIX
-Doubt: The Breguet XIX was built in the CASA factory, where was this factory located?
-The Nieuport 52 will be produced only in Guadalajara (Hispano Suiza factory)
-The map is about 25% ready...

[Bombur]

ORIGINAL: Fargo

The most of Destroyers was "Churruca" class, inspired in Royal Navy "Scott" class. Wiegth 1.600 tn; length 101 mts.; width 9.6 mts.; depth 3.3 mts.; speed 36 knots; crew 160 men; autonomy 4.500 miles (14 kn.); weaponry: 5 x 120mm/L.45; 1 x Flak (AA) 76,2 mm.; 6 torpedo tubes 530 mm.; 2 depth-charges launchers and 4 machine guns.

Regarding submarines, the main class was "C" class. Weigth 925 tn; length 73.3 mts.; width 6.3 mts.; depth 5.7 mts.; speed 16.5 knots in surface and 8.5 kn. undersea; maximum depth 90 mts.; crew 40 men; autonomy 6.800 miles (10 kn) or 3.200 miles (16 kn) in surface and 150 miles (4.5 kn) undersea.; weaponry: 6 torpedo tubes 530 mm. 4 at prow 2 at stern; 1 x flak (AA) 76mm./L.45 and 1 x gun 75 mm.

I'm very intersted in your job, Bombur. I'm looking for information about torpedo boats and coastguards.

-Thank you a lot, Fargo. I hope the final product won´t disappoint people who is helping me. If results aren´t that great, however, it still can be improved by other members of community. Drop me an e-mail if you are interrested in getting a copy of the file.

[Fargo]

C.A.S.A. (Construcciones Aeronauticas Sociedad Anonima) was established in 1923. It first factory was located at Getafe (Madrid). In 1928 the second factory was opened in Cadiz.
At the present, CASA is part of Airbus corporate and EADS.

[Bombur]

-Slow progress, didn´t add new units but added some extra map areas and improved my custom units graphics. Only trouble now is armored truck (whose graphic is simply horrendous). I tested the graphics and they look reasonable despite the fact I didn´t modify them in a photo editor.

[T_K]

If you're having big trouble with the pics send me what you have (the original images) and I'll see if I can prep them better.