The Holy Grail of wargaming

[PyleDriver]

Don't get be wrong, I like alot of stuff, badly, and we have it. But you can go to far in micro managment (thus AI kick-in). Joel and Gary and our test group (very creative bunch) is doing outstanding testing on this game...Just wait...

[Rasputitsa]

I'll be happy if WitE is not a monster game, I think we all appreciate the detail that Gary puts into these titles, but it also needs to be playable in a reasonable time scale, that doesn't end in divorce. [:)]

[PyleDriver]

Oh this is a monster game, the question is how we make it easier to play and still allow a player to control all the bells and whisels if they choose...

[Lützow]

War in the Pacific has set a culmination point which no developer, not even 2by3, could top so far. WaW plainly sucked in my opinion, however WbtS was a good and well thought-out game again, albeit not that outstanding among competevily civil war titles as WitP for pacific theatre.

So with above in mind my hopes about another GG 'monster' game are high off course and I'm a bit concerned 2by3 could abstract too much details, cut micro-management or automate game aspects in favor for better accessibility, as they did with previous titles. The change for weekly turn are still acceptable for me (even I had prefer 3 days), but I'd like to have a similiar game experience as with WitP. Everything else would be disappointing and not match my expectations.

With that said, can you tell us a bit more about how logistics works in WitE ?

[Rasputitsa]

As most game designers will already know, it is impossible to please all customers all the time. When thinking of a monster game I was considering the amount of micro-mangement required. The East front is always going to be a monster subject, but at the level of command in the game, you would historically not control everything.

I know that there are many who wish to do so and I hope the game has enough control to satisfy them. I would only hope for enough optional automatic features to introduce some realistic uncertainty. Either way, by this stage, the die is cast and the word that recurs through these pages is, trust. Well I have bought just about everything that Gary has produced, so trust it is. [:)]

[elmo3]

I loved Battle of Britain but hardly played Bombing the Reich again after being an alpha and beta tester for it. It was just "too much of a good thing". Really liked Uncommon Valor but never bought WitP because the level of detail and scale made the campaign look like something I'd never finish in my lifetime. So FWIW I'm with the guys here who hope the game does abstract enough of the myriad of details that could be added to make it playable. The scale of divisions and weekly turns sounds perfect.

[siRkid]

ORIGINAL: Lützow



With that said, can you tell us a bit more about how logistics works in WitE ?

As with anything Gary it's complicated. There are others that can tell you more but here is my understanding in simplified terms. The HQ collects and distribute supplies. Range from a railhead or port is critical on how much supply you get. A unit will try to pull from parent HQ and failing that look for a railhead. Supply is calculated by the distanced from Unit to HQ from HQ to Railhead/Port in hexes and also in MPs. So you could be within the required number of hexes but out of range in MPs. Trucks from a motor pool are used to transport supplies and they can break down. The further they have to transport then more that will break down. You get to use captured trucks after they have been repaired. Fuel affect movement points, more so on armor units than infantry. Supply affects combat, repair, and refit.

[Lützow]

Thank your for your answer, Kid.

[Shupov]

ORIGINAL: Kid

ORIGINAL: Lützow



With that said, can you tell us a bit more about how logistics works in WitE ?

As with anything Gary it's complicated. There are others that can tell you more but here is my understanding in simplified terms. The HQ collects and distribute supplies. Range from a railhead or port is critical on how much supply you get. A unit will try to pull from parent HQ and failing that look for a railhead. Supply is calculated by the distanced from Unit to HQ from HQ to Railhead/Port in hexes and also in MPs. So you could be within the required number of hexes but out of range in MPs. Trucks from a motor pool are used to transport supplies and they can break down. The further they have to transport then more that will break down. You get to use captured trucks after they have been repaired. Fuel affect movement points, more so on armor units than infantry. Supply affects combat, repair, and refit.

Glad to see trucks in the game! Will they be included in each unit's structure and affect its MP's?

[PyleDriver]

Yes their in each unit. They effect MP's because of supply, or lack there of...The further from a railhead, well you do the math...We really have worked and tweaked supply and now after a year of testing, I'm very happy with it...Very historic as every truck is accounted for now in supply...I really wonder how Gary does all this...

[knilli]

we had this saying at work...."we do the impossible immediately, wonders will take a bit longer"....  it seems this qualifies for the category "wonder" 

thx guys! [&o] [&o] 

[hank]

ORIGINAL: elmo3

I loved Battle of Britain but hardly played Bombing the Reich again after being an alpha and beta tester for it. It was just "too much of a good thing". Really liked Uncommon Valor but never bought WitP because the level of detail and scale made the campaign look like something I'd never finish in my lifetime. So FWIW I'm with the guys here who hope the game does abstract enough of the myriad of details that could be added to make it playable. The scale of divisions and weekly turns sounds perfect.

I have Uncommon Valor also but I could not get into it so eventually gave up playing. I'm not in any way saying it is not a good game. I heard it was sort of a strpped down WitP. FWIW, the strategy/op games I've played most are PzC's, SSG (KP/BiN/BF/KDotD) and TOAW.

So the question is, to get ready for WitE, would it be helpful in preparation to fire up UV again?
I suspect the interfaces will be quite different but would there be any advantage in becoming familiar with UV again?

I've done this several times with games. I would buy a game and find it not what I thought it would be; put it away; then go back to it and find out it was actually better than I originally thought. ... which I've been thinking could be the situation with UV.

[Joel Billings]

No, WitE is not like UV at all. It will feel more like PzC or an SSG operational game than UV. UV/WitP are very unique because of their focus on naval/air interaction.

[hank]

Thanks Joel.  Your succinct answer has answered one of my big questions.  I went on and reloaded UV and have found it more enjoyable than when I first bought it a couple of years ago.  I guess I expected something different but this go around is quite fun.
 
I'm also playing through some of the division level TOAW games in anticipation of WitE.  I typically crank up a PzC game every few weeks so I'll be doing my Kursk, Smolensk or Kharkhov PzC games ... now that I've said the word "Smolensk", I'm feeling an urge to cross the Dnepr.
 
WitE has moved right up there with Battles from the Bulge (Panther Games) as the two I'm most likely going to get next.
 
Thanks again