Pelton (GHC) vs chaos45 T-131 Russian Victory

[Huw Jones]

Same here very good AAR.

[chaos45]

Turn 13 away, I captured a bunch of screen shots but want to get some turns ahead before I post due to intel

I got zoom outs of each section of the front and some of the big battles as well as my all star fighter group, cause for 1941 they are the most butt kicking pilots the red army has every put in the air.

Heavy fighting continues south of leningrad stalin names one of the divisions in the 22nd army Guards due to their achievements in stopping the fascists advance. Thousands of casualties on both sides however the brave Soldiers of the red army are killing more fascists than we are a losing so its a great week for the red army in the north. Also we teach German security troops that the frontline is no place for them [8D]

In the Center the Germans prepare for another huge panzer ball lunge im guessing.

In the south, well its the south in 1941 more soviets die lol.

[Peltonx]

Turn 9 GHC Armaments: 92,000 Manpower: 24,000 VP: 181

HQBUs used: 1 AGN/ 1 AGC/ 1 AGS
Armament Pts. Destroyed = 12
Heavy Industry Destroyed = 9
Factories:
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Stavka KIA: 1,281,000
Stavka OOB: 4,626,000
AGN pushes a few hexes closer and LW starts closing down the port. Again why all the units to defend a dead city? Stavka seems to be all forward with no defense in depth. All north and south with next to nothing in center.

[Peltonx]

AGC drives 110 miles east 30 miles wide, this should give me the hills. The 3 Panzer Corp HQs are all withen 100 miles of the railhead.

[Peltonx]

AGS pockets 14 units and drives east 80 miles, I am hoping Stavka stays close and I can simply pac man the next 3 or 4 turns then roll up whatever is left.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Turn 13 away, I captured a bunch of screen shots but want to get some turns ahead before I post due to intel

I got zoom outs of each section of the front and some of the big battles as well as my all star fighter group, cause for 1941 they are the most butt kicking pilots the red army has every put in the air.

Heavy fighting continues south of leningrad stalin names one of the divisions in the 22nd army Guards due to their achievements in stopping the fascists advance. Thousands of casualties on both sides however the brave Soldiers of the red army are killing more fascists than we are a losing so its a great week for the red army in the north. Also we teach German security troops that the frontline is no place for them [8D]

In the Center the Germans prepare for another huge panzer ball lunge im guessing.

In the south, well its the south in 1941 more soviets die lol.

Very hard grind in the north.

My only counter is turning off refit to all the infantry divisions south of the Oka, nothing down their for high CV Russian units so I don't need high CV also.

Good guess on the center and hmm the south is the south.

Very fun game to date your skilled a commander so far.

I am doing my best to keep your OOB below 5 million.

[chaos45]

Turn 14 down was a grim day for soviet high command 30+ divisions pockets by the new german push....man I gotta say HQ buildup is just a tad OP...just my opinion.

Soviet forces continue the bitter struggle south of leningrad the Germans are slowly gaining ground but we are making them pay in blood and bitterly coutnerattacking their successes. Also smashing screening regiments each turn should be some annoyance and continue to work on guards.

In the center well 25 divisions approx pocketed as his HQ buidup allows him to cush thru two hexes of defenders and sweep the rear echelon screening forces away from the MLR along along a 100 miles stretch of the frontline. Grim, grim day...the only consolation I have is already had 10 divisions sitting on the next river line.

In the south kharkov is encircled...guess German tanks just never run out of gas as its been a steady drum of attacks every turn down in the south for awhile now. SHC retreats all along the front except for Moscow/Leningrad at this rate German logistics will enable to threaten Stalingrad in the summer of 41 wouldnt that have been Hitlers wet dream lol.

SHC isnt defeated yet but was a grim day was hoping for 5M OOB by winter all these pockets will probably knock me back down to 4.5M. THe only good news is...well no good news this week....Oh yes we pushed back the fascists with local counterattacks 4 times and 1 massive counterattack to once more clear the clear hex right outside leningrad.

Im kinda hoping the damn German tanks are out of gas for a week or so now lol.

Seriously I think the next patch reducing German logistics is a must for it to be abit more balanced, but im enjoying the challenge and so far I think Im holding you closer to historical than anyone else in awhile [8D]

Not bad for my first PBEM going this far, my other game is only up to like turn 8-9.

More pics in a couple turns As I got some of my disasters this turn lol.

[chaos45]

Also as to your comments about nothing in center, my recon detected your buildup back before that first big push into center, so I dropped alot of my defenses back so they wouldnt get crushed/encricled then shifted them back into place after u burned the first huge push of Gas as Im sure you noticed the next turn.

Ive learned unless massively dug-in with back up lines you cant stop an HQ buildup push by GHC period. Turn 14 only reinforced that as I thought that double line in the woods with a river would hold or delay you enough, and nope. I was figuring I should have just run for it as I did on turn 9 and now Im paying for trying to stand in front of an HQ BU.

Also Stavka doesnt feel leningrad is doomed and sides you still havent cut it off yet and im tying up 23 or so German divisions some of them motorized that otherwise would be assisting in the devastation your already causing in the center south and southern sectors lol. An Im bleeding you badly up thereon average 4-5K a week I think in casualties and im only suffering about the same.

When I start doing screen shots on here will just start my own Soviet side thread otherwise between your screen shots and mine will be alot for ppl to sort through. Turn 15-16 I can prolly throw up turn 13 I think as you have killed most the stuff in those screen except for leningrad/moscow fronts lol.

[Peltonx]

The problem is not the logistics, as can be seen in this screen sht. The rail head was then 40 miles from the front and my panzers were sitting on the tracks

No HQBU was even required. In the south also I have been cutting northwest cutting with 20 mps of railheads, which means the next patch cutting logistics would have no effect.

As you stated I am close to historical advance. I simply am taking what your giving me.

Some areas are very strong there nothing to take I grind morale, but others your making it to easy and I can farm morale which gives me more MP's to move after I break the front.
Also your tactics are back woulds, you got uber units in front with junk in the back. Once
I get through your front line I can easly form 10-20 divisions pockets and still have gas left over for next turn not even using HQBUs.


Your thinking politics and simply not figuring out how close the railheads are to the front.

The real question for you is if I do a HQBU turn 15 how far will my panzer go next turn. Moscow, Tula, south or Ilmen?

[Peltonx]

Morale is not logistics.

all but 3 of my mech units are below 85 morale even the one u pocketed is back to 87.

My toe% is good as 75% are above 80 with some being at 100% before last turns offensive so I have 4-6 panzers with 25-30 CV.
or 75 to 90 CV in a single stack.

I simply do 1 D attack to break your checker board front, then I can hasty attack the rest of your front and weak 2nd line screen. Magic I have a 25 division pocket not even using all my MPs.

Morale is by far the most important stat and I can farm it as good or better then anyone.

[Peltonx]

My tanks drove 100 miles from the northern side and 50 from the southern side.

Logistics is not an problem, you simply gave me a gift.

I am not a history teacher, but I can read and the Germans advancing a 100 miles happened allot over a 1 week period.

Before whining about HQBU and broken logistic simply look at the data.

That was a classic historical Russian mistake, which the game modeled perfectly.

[chaos45]

Oh I admit I made a mistake and should have ran for it.

As to historical advance marks I could go into details but you play the game and you do it very well. As to how close to the actual capabilities of the army the game is modelling I think there are some decided issues for both sides.

An yes despite your protest the German logistics are overall performing way better than they could ever have hoped in real life. Mayhaps the next patch will reign them into to something more representative of the real life situation.

You were far ahead in the early game which forced me to fight abit more forward than I would like, thus your ability to do several small pockets/grind morale as you say. As the cost of railing out industry is very high and it was lose industry or sacrifice armies. Not a big deal with no Lvov, with Lvov the Soviets really dont have the Armies to sacrifice.

Anyway Im not out of the game yet. I managed to get alot of industry far to the rear so far and my army even after these big pockets is still about standard size for towards the end of the summer 1941. The T34/vehicle factories were unfortuntate but only so much rail and so much time so decisions had to be made. Esp since I didnt want to lose everything at leningrad because I knew I only had so much time before the rails were cut there as well.

Despite my complaints Im enjoying the game just trying to make suggestions as I see them from my foxhole. I have played the Germans in alot of games and even in this game vs AI quite abit. So far I do feel the HQBU is the broken part of the game as againts even enhanced AI the germans can reach historical advance marks with no HQBU so that would only lead me to believe that it allows ahistorical results with its use.

With no HQBU I bet you could still get historical results, the HQBU gives you that extra edge to push for the win in 1941 that the German logistics engine really didnt have. German operational halts were almost always due to logistics you dont need those halts in this game at current. You halt only in mud or to do an HQ BU so you can get a massive extra push, so logistics isnt a constraint really as it was in the real war.

I have been able to time each of your thrusts pretty well, there has been absolutely no operational pause. Its been 1 mud turn that caused a pause at turn 5 or 6 and other than that its only been a 1 turn to finish off the pocket you created. Then 1 turn to HQBU then 3rd turn you hit again for another pocket like clockwork.

[chaos45]

Well your base morale is 85 on motorized/panzer, and you should win 2/3 to 3/4 of your battles even on hasty attacks resulting in a gain almost all the time.

Thats just the game engine nothing special.

[Peltonx]

HQBU got a uber nerf 1.06 and the game was a complete joke with Russian holding Pskov, land bridge to Stalino with Russia going on offensive in 42.

Complete disaster coupled with 100+ swapping bugs ect ect the people playing before that were 10x what we have now.

1.08 has people coming back as playing SHC is not a cake walk.

.05 will help push things back towards SHC, but I fear coupled with extra loses we are looking at SHC going on offensive late 42 and games ending in late 44 as before.

I think .05 might be over reaching.

.03 vs good SHC players are not smoke shows - vs average or below average sure.

All things being = is what matters.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Well your base morale is 85 on motorized/panzer, and you should win 2/3 to 3/4 of your battles even on hasty attacks resulting in a gain almost all the time.

Thats just the game engine nothing special.

That's historical, Germans had yrs of training many of Russians 3 days. Here is a gun go to the front. USA vs Iraq

Flip the coin, there are 2 sides,

[chaos45]

Just sent you back turn 15, if the soviets are also taking higher losses should balance I would think as lots of losses would equal units need to halt and refit once in awhile instead of always pushing.

Not much for my 15 adjusted forces and in general fled from the mighty Germans. 18th Army cant quite run fast enough and is encircled at Kursk. So another think 10 divisions lost....glad summer is almost over lol.

He did a big push trying to right hook my defense of leningrad to which I put forces in front of him. So now going into october something like 3 panzer corps and 1-2 infantry armies are tied up trying to finish just cutting off leningrad. The situation isnt pretty for me, but If I can hold till mud....someday mud and rain and snow all the nice things in the world will begin......Got a couple screen shots for when i start up my thread.

Overall like Turn 14 nothing awesome to report for the Mother Russia other than a couple local attack successes to build morale/guards, lots of newly minted Guards units this turn I think 7 best turn so far for guards. I did see lots more German casualties trying to push me away from leningrad for only 1 hex gain. He needs either a fortified swamp hex to cut leningrad from only one hexside or keep pushing my line more east first. Hoping to keep making it bloody and painful.

German bombers no longer bomb the port of Leningrad and we have a new minted guards airbase there for shooting down hundreds of fascists bombers. Soviet fighter grps are reporting amazing morale as they tally up the kills. Which in turn makes them better and better pilots lol....Apparently based on kill totals the Mig 3 seems to be the best early war Soviet fighter because those groups are out killed the other types by huge margins even the Yak 1 which looks like a better aircraft.

As to training well many of my units are getting at least 2-3 weeks before gettin thrown into the front lines lol [8D]

[chaos45]

I do agree on balance Pelton completely. As I also like to play the Germans and dont want them to suck lol.

[MattFL]

I don't think HQBU is a problem. I think the ridiculous overuse of Air Supply is the problem. It's almost an unofficial HQBU....

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: mattp

I don't think HQBU is a problem. I think the ridiculous overuse of Air Supply is the problem. It's almost an unofficial HQBU....

Your thinking is 100% right why it will be nerfed out of the game basicly .05, Chaos has yet to play Germany vs a good human, he be cring a river when he loses Berlin in late 44/early 45.


He is good, but has allot to learn.

[Peltonx]

Turn 10 GHC Armaments: 92,000 Manpower: 24,000 VP: 181

HQBUs used: 1 AGN/ 1 AGC/ 1 AGS
Armament Pts. Destroyed = 12
Heavy Industry Destroyed = 9
Factories:
Manpower Pts over run during 1942 =
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
SU:
AP total:
Stavka KIA: 1,281,000 Stavka OOB: 4,626,000 ( 0,000 )
AGN pushes a few more miles closer to cutting off Leningrad and the LW damages port to 37%.