Random weather not random???

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: morvael

As a compromise I can propose no mud in June and July 1941, rest as normal.

looks sensible + fair to me

[charlie0311]

Morveal, the "Magnificent"

ps. Running low on admin points in my butt-kissing account, just as well:)

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: loki100



this is becoming a bit of a mess - laying aside the suspicion that many have about the south and guarenteed mud in the south on T3.

Basically we are talking about 13 turns (T3-T15) as if I understand the manual then T16+ is not 'protected' ~ ie mud may happen even if it has already occured in that zone.

It's the 1st 17 turns that are protected by the max. 1 mud rule.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

ORIGINAL: loki100



this is becoming a bit of a mess - laying aside the suspicion that many have about the south and guarenteed mud in the south on T3.

Basically we are talking about 13 turns (T3-T15) as if I understand the manual then T16+ is not 'protected' ~ ie mud may happen even if it has already occured in that zone.

It's the 1st 17 turns that are protected by the max. 1 mud rule.

quite prepared to admit I've misunderstood the manual (or missed a patch change) but I was basing my comment on this part of rule 22.2.2:

There will be at most one mud turn per weather zone during turns from 19 June to 30 September

my reading was that from 1 October that limit is lifted, so you can have a second (or implausibly, a third) instance in a zone in the turns covered that start after 1 October and before 10 October (at which stage the Oct-early November table kicks in).

Given the way week start dates interacts with the fixed calender points, in effect there will be 2 weeks in October still using the September table, but the chance of random mud is not squashed by whatever happened in the main summer period?

[morvael]

In the current implementation 1-9 October counts as September, so limit is not lifted.
The same for other dates (1-19 June counts as May, 1-7 November counts as October).

[Rodimstev]

Hi all,

i give just my opinion :

i am not a expert in WITE but i have a robust knowlegde about the military operation more specialy about the germano-soviet's war.

as Pelton said :

he has not Hitler but he commands the Wermacht in 1941 with his strongs and weekness and he is not the

we are not Stalin but we command the Red army with his strong and weekness and we are not master of the Weather.

It is for this that playing with fixed table weather is like playing to chess, but no to a wargame.

each combat represents a lot of parameters but you have always a incertitude.

It is not mathematical.

It is really important to have this incertitude and the weather sorry for players that play with fixed table is a parameter like others.

May be that the main issue is to reflect the real consequence to have mud or clear or snow weather about the mouvement/combat/supply.

I think it is the good way to study this but no change the random table weather.

for my part, i would prefer more random in weather. don't forget that we play a week in each turn and if you know the weather in russia in june, july, august or september, you have very often un july for example one or two days raining per week in Ukraine or bielorussia.

Don't hesitate to read the meteorologic archivals russia beetween june and december 1941


Rodimstev

[Mehring]

ORIGINAL: Rodimstev

Hi all,

i give just my opinion :

i am not a expert in WITE but i have a robust knowlegde about the military operation more specialy about the germano-soviet's war.

as Pelton said :

he has not Hitler but he commands the Wermacht in 1941 with his strongs and weekness and he is not the

we are not Stalin but we command the Red army with his strong and weekness and we are not master of the Weather.

It is for this that playing with fixed table weather is like playing to chess, but no to a wargame.

each combat represents a lot of parameters but you have always a incertitude.

It is not mathematical.

It is really important to have this incertitude and the weather sorry for players that play with fixed table is a parameter like others.

May be that the main issue is to reflect the real consequence to have mud or clear or snow weather about the mouvement/combat/supply.

I think it is the good way to study this but no change the random table weather.

for my part, i would prefer more random in weather. don't forget that we play a week in each turn and if you know the weather in russia in june, july, august or september, you have very often un july for example one or two days raining per week in Ukraine or bielorussia.

Don't hesitate to read the meteorologic archivals russia beetween june and december 1941


Rodimstev

I believe WiTE2 will have granular weather and more types, too- like light/heavy mud so effects will often be more local and nuanced. Nice! I've ever played a game with fixed, absolutely predictable weather and never will, the idea is abhorrent.

[morvael]

With just 4 types of weather and just 4 zones one can't represent bad weather during summer. Mud in this game is a total game changer if it happens during summer 41 so it must be limited. It's only working well for what it was designed - the period of rasputitsa. You have to imagine clear weather being less clear with local rain, storms, light to medium mud. But it can't be THE mud.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: morvael

With just 4 types of weather and just 4 zones one can't represent bad weather during summer. Mud in this game is a total game changer if it happens during summer 41 so it must be limited. It's only working well for what it was designed - the period of rasputitsa. You have to imagine clear weather being less clear with local rain, storms, light to medium mud. But it can't be THE mud.

fair point, in WiTW I have come to regard light mud/limited rain as the normal (at least for NW Europe), so clear and no mud becomes a bonus. But a combination of the different game engine and the better road nets means that light mud is not much of a block on movement/combat.

[sillyflower]

Being a saddo (no Wite turns to do today), I played some test GC41 games to check the weather patterns, doing only the 1st 6 turns each time. I did not move any counters, but just a lot of F12ing.

I did 3 using vanilla GC. Games 1 and 2 were all clear. Game 3 had mud in south on T6. I was starting to wonder if the lack of mud was because the germans had failed to advance.

I then did 3 using GC alt VC260.
game 4 mud in south T3, europe on T5 and centre on T6
game 5 mud south T3 (looking familiar to anyone?) and europe T4
game 6 only mud was T6 but guess where - the south of course.

6 games is a very small sample and I haven't done the maths to see whether the difference between GC and alt VC are significant (not least because I have forgotten how to do the chi squared test [:(]) but the difference between the 2 starting scenarios was stark. Also was the fact that 4/7 instances of mud were in the south and none in the north even after 24 chances of it. Only a 1% chance of any zone having clear every turn as the probability of clear each turn between was only 80% if no previous mud if I have done my maths right.

[Manstein63]

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

Being a saddo (no Wite turns to do today)

You have one now, so you can stop being sad
Manstein63