possible bug/error

[btd64]

Hum. The game works the way I expected it to[:D]....GP

[witpqs]

Good show, Alfred.

I read his first post of a possible bug about false sighting reports and I thought it was a post from a new player because the deliberate mis-direction of false sighting reports is so common it doesn't take terribly long for a player to experience it.

[decourcy2]

Alfred, I did not work on AE, I thought I made that quite clear, I am sorry it was not clear enough. I left before it started as a firm project. I was co-founder of CHS with Don. I am sorry it upsets you that I know Don & Joe, but I know Joe less well. Don and I talked about what we would do if we had the source code, and how we could change the game. Much of what went into CHS also went into AE. Not all, we had barely started talking about pilot skills being a bunch of separate skills.

As far as I know Don is the only person who knows the AE air code, I am not sure what you were saying there.

'Decourcy' on the forum was not me, I wondered why I had to take Decourcy2. I was Lemurs.
Elf helped me test air systems in CHS, and was one of our biggest supporters, maybe things changed but I think you misunderstand what
'Program' means. Don, as far as I know, was the programmer as that was his skill and his job for many years in real life. I am not, and I don't think Elf is. When I left Elf took over for AE air team leader.

Joe was not part of CHS at start, that was Don, Ron and I. Joe was the one in touch with Erik at first we ran into each other when Erik put us in touch as we wanted the same thing; to have the source code. Our original idea was to do three stages, 1st being to continue CHS and learn as much as possible over why things worked the way they did, and about the situation through the war in more detail than any of us did.
The second stage was AE as an extension of what we had learned making CHS and Don working with the source code code to fix the fun bugs and what not, the third step was WitP2 which I have no idea if it was ever started, or if it is still being worked on. Joe and I play games by email still occasionally, but Don I haven't talked to since, maybe 2012? Nothing happened, just real life commitments on both of our parts.

I did not know MichaelM, Nikademus and talked some, we disagreed with each other often, but we worked together some on air questions.

I do not understand this 'name drop' that has your panties in a twist, again I am sorry it offends you that I worked on CHS and knew them. Also, saying that AE was born in 2005 is pushing things a bit, Erik was very hesitant to hand the code over to anyone and we plugged along on CHS for quite a bit. After a while Don got the code (and maybe Joe as well, I do not know) and Don and I started testing changes, he programmed, I checked to see how it affected things. But not really 2005.. I don't remember exactly.

Obvert, I do not have an axe to grind, I was just surprised that some of the air work we did in CHS did not make it into AE with ELf at the head. If i am 'whinging' in this thread I am also sorry, I thought it was a legitimate question.
I have forgotten so much of how WitP plays over the years and AE changed more than i had anticipated back in the day (for the good!) so I am trying to learn what I am screwing up as fast as possible to give Wargmr as good of a game as possible.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: decourcy2

Obvert, I do not have an axe to grind, I was just surprised that some of the air work we did in CHS did not make it into AE with ELf at the head. If i am 'whinging' in this thread I am also sorry, I thought it was a legitimate question.
I have forgotten so much of how WitP plays over the years and AE changed more than i had anticipated back in the day (for the good!) so I am trying to learn what I am screwing up as fast as possible to give Wargmr as good of a game as possible.

When you say "One of my chief beefs with the game as it stands" and stuff about how you wonder why your work didn't make it into the game, it sure feels like a dull axe to me!! [;)]

The Original topic is interesting. Maybe post some combat reports and pics if you really want the best results with feedback, and just kind of tone down the history lessons.

[decourcy2]

Obvert, who put you in charge, man? I will 'history lesson' if I feel like it, and they are legitimate (to me) concerns.
I feel like I am breaking into a girl's clique at a junior high school.

I actually received some excellent advice from a number of posters on my question already, I do not even remember if spotting your own TFs was a thing in WitP, but if it was I have totally forgotten. My 65ish nav search guys really like finding my Tfs.
I am glad that this is common I was legitimately afraid I had screwed Wargmrs game and work by my bone-headed forgetting to put the beta in before I started.

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: decourcy2

We did the best we could (oil excepted) to limit the growth of the Japanese economy to historical proportions. I am sorry it was not good enough for you, but Don and Joe did their best.

In my mod the jets are removed as they were not developed in Japanese r&d facilities, but developed from German data. Other aircraft, such as the Ki44, could have been built in great numbers, like the Ki43 and A6M were, that was a real choice the Japanese made that we felt the player should have.

Economy growth is limited at the starting end by resources; there are more resources in the game than Japan used during WW2 but not much more, and a limiter is getting the resources to Japan for production. I have seen AARs where the allied player did not put much work into sinking merchants and the Japanese had a great economy, and games where the Japanese were unable to get their resources home and their economy tanked at the beginning of '45.

If you pay attention to games and tests, we found that the Japanese economy actually tends to implode several months earlier than historical, but I think that is players over producing and that is exactly what we went for.

So, no, Don & I did not feel that the Japanese favoritism that you allude to is very strong. I would maybe argue that Allied favoritism is just as strong, but you don't see what you do not want to.

Well, I for one think the game is fantastic, and applaud your efforts to tweak things to further improve on the accuracy of the OOB. Please continue, in spite of some negative reviews. If its in a mod those who wish may ignore the thing.

[rustysi]

Again, I can see the rationale. There are gameplay considerations, hindsight is huge and you cannot write it out of the game. If you make too many assets too vulnerable, you are more accurate, but there might not be as many players.

As I have said countless times: most times, the devs really got it right. Even in cases where I might have chosen another solution, I can see the merits of their decision and cannot argue too vehemently against them: the game in fact DOES work quite well. Proof: the longevity of the product.

+1

I'm a scenario 1 player and its obvious that a competent Allied player will beat Japan almost no matter what is given to the JFB. So if you wish to have no one play as Japan make the game truly historical. BTW, when I do get to PBEM I intend to stick around and take the beating that I know will come. The only reason I haven't tried PBEM yet is I wish to have enough knowledge to not wreak my economy and thus have to forfeit the game, as getting a beating after having broke the thing will be absolutely no fun at all. At least if I get the economy right I can take some pleasure from that.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: decourcy2

Obvert, who put you in charge, man? I will 'history lesson' if I feel like it, and they are legitimate (to me) concerns.
I feel like I am breaking into a girl's clique at a junior high school.

Not a clique, but yes, an almost nine-year-old group of men (and one lady) who have played this monster every day. It's not uncommon at this point for regulars to have finished 6-7 full grand campaigns, many folks on both sides. So forgive comments that yawn at a "missing" six Claudes in Week 1 of a game. You just don't have cred to have an opinion on whether it matters.

Most of us played WITP too. I certainly did, for years. And those of us here from the start knew Don, and JWE, and Joe, and the Elf, and most especially, Michael. He of all of them at this point knows more about the code than any living human. But nobody seems to know you.

But OK. This place has survived and prospered because newbies are welcome. Lots have come in over the years, guns blazing, opinions a'flyin', and left just as fast. Hundreds. That's all obvert is saying. At this point nobody cares about CHS. Really. But if you want to be a contributor, that's fine. Learn AE, and offer up.

And if you want to learn, read obvert's AARs. He's probably in the top-3-5 best players of this thing, both sides.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
And if you want to learn, read obvert's AARs. He's probably in the top-3-5 best players of this thing, both sides.

+1

[;)]

[RichardAckermann]

If decourcy2 has contributed to the database, I can understand him to be annoyed by little things he considers to be a mismatch. He is probably prone to seeing the product as being part of him (or vice versa), and does not want to see it go in a wrong direction.
I have a habit like that with all games I program.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: decourcy2

Yeah, I know Hans. The problem I am having is the 10 hex range most of recon Sqds have. This does not give them the range to recon what I need.
The Japs start with a number of 9 plane chutai Nell units that I have taken off line and am training in recon. And in between raids I am training the larger Nell/Betty units in nav search.

Just the total lack of available air units is what is killing me; it does not help that 25% of the Japanese air force is not on map at game start as it should be.
Part of the reason I left CHS, and did not work on AE was the influx of AFBs fighting us on giving Japan what they historically had.

I guess you are complaining because you are having a tough time against a very seasoned AFB. Well, I got news for you...Wargamr will ratchet this up and up and up...so in other words, you haven't seen anything yet.[X(]

It is a good thing you didn't work on AE, since Japan has plenty of tools in the box already to make this game tons of fun. It is a game, btw.[;)]

Edit: Just finished reading the rest of the thread. What a can of worms. I got so confused.[&:] Hard to see how listening to Obvert will steer you wrong...if your interest is to improve your play that is.

[InfiniteMonkey]

ORIGINAL: decourcy2
'Decourcy' on the forum was not me, I wondered why I had to take Decourcy2. I was Lemurs.

I remember the name Lemurs from my pre-IM days. He was a frequent enough poster that I remember him, but it's been so long I do not remember much. I took a very long hiatus from WitP because of real life... parents decline and passing away, new kid, new, much more stressful job situation, etc. I went from being able to play a couple turns a day to almost no time to play seemingly overnight.

ORIGINAL: decourcy2
Just the total lack of available air units is what is killing me; it does not help that 25% of the Japanese air force is not on map at game start as it should be.
Part of the reason I left CHS, and did not work on AE was the influx of AFBs fighting us on giving Japan what they historically had.

If your HR allows for resizing, there is no reason at all for you to have issues with IJN pilot training and you do not have to sacrifice much to do it. I can put every IJN replacement pool pilot into a training squadron within a few weeks of game start via resizing if I choose to.

[Zecke]

ORIGINAL: InfiniteMonkey

ORIGINAL: decourcy2
'Decourcy' on the forum was not me, I wondered why I had to take Decourcy2. I was Lemurs.

I remember the name Lemurs from my pre-IM days. He was a frequent enough poster that I remember him, but it's been so long I do not remember much. I took a very long hiatus from WitP because of real life... parents decline and passing away, new kid, new, much more stressful job situation, etc. I went from being able to play a couple turns a day to almost no time to play seemingly overnight.

ORIGINAL: decourcy2
Just the total lack of available air units is what is killing me; it does not help that 25% of the Japanese air force is not on map at game start as it should be.
Part of the reason I left CHS, and did not work on AE was the influx of AFBs fighting us on giving Japan what they historically had.

If your HR allows for resizing, there is no reason at all for you to have issues with IJN pilot training and you do not have to sacrifice much to do it. I can put every IJN replacement pool pilot into a training squadron within a few weeks of game start via resizing if I choose to.

No reason[:-]

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: decourcy2

Alfred, I did not work on AE, I thought I made that quite clear, I am sorry it was not clear enough. I left before it started as a firm project. I was co-founder of CHS with Don. I am sorry it upsets you that I know Don & Joe, but I know Joe less well. Don and I talked about what we would do if we had the source code, and how we could change the game. Much of what went into CHS also went into AE. Not all, we had barely started talking about pilot skills being a bunch of separate skills.

As far as I know Don is the only person who knows the AE air code, I am not sure what you were saying there.

'Decourcy' on the forum was not me, I wondered why I had to take Decourcy2. I was Lemurs.
Elf helped me test air systems in CHS, and was one of our biggest supporters, maybe things changed but I think you misunderstand what
'Program' means. Don, as far as I know, was the programmer as that was his skill and his job for many years in real life. I am not, and I don't think Elf is. When I left Elf took over for AE air team leader.

Joe was not part of CHS at start, that was Don, Ron and I. Joe was the one in touch with Erik at first we ran into each other when Erik put us in touch as we wanted the same thing; to have the source code. Our original idea was to do three stages, 1st being to continue CHS and learn as much as possible over why things worked the way they did, and about the situation through the war in more detail than any of us did.
The second stage was AE as an extension of what we had learned making CHS and Don working with the source code code to fix the fun bugs and what not, the third step was WitP2 which I have no idea if it was ever started, or if it is still being worked on. Joe and I play games by email still occasionally, but Don I haven't talked to since, maybe 2012? Nothing happened, just real life commitments on both of our parts.

I did not know MichaelM, Nikademus and talked some, we disagreed with each other often, but we worked together some on air questions.

I do not understand this 'name drop' that has your panties in a twist, again I am sorry it offends you that I worked on CHS and knew them. Also, saying that AE was born in 2005 is pushing things a bit, Erik was very hesitant to hand the code over to anyone and we plugged along on CHS for quite a bit. After a while Don got the code (and maybe Joe as well, I do not know) and Don and I started testing changes, he programmed, I checked to see how it affected things. But not really 2005.. I don't remember exactly.

Obvert, I do not have an axe to grind, I was just surprised that some of the air work we did in CHS did not make it into AE with ELf at the head. If i am 'whinging' in this thread I am also sorry, I thought it was a legitimate question.
I have forgotten so much of how WitP plays over the years and AE changed more than i had anticipated back in the day (for the good!) so I am trying to learn what I am screwing up as fast as possible to give Wargmr as good of a game as possible.

As far as I know Don never had anything to do with the AE air code. He worked a bit on the original WitP air code after he and Joe began doing bug fixes on that code.

We had 4 programmers on AE with Joe filling in once in a while. michaelm was the air team programmer, BigJ62 was originally land and AI, but at the end was focused exclusively on the AI, Don was the naval programmer, and I was the utility infielder. I was only there for the last two years. I worked on the naval code for a bit when Don had to drop out for a couple of months, I also did a lot of the things that didn't fall into any specific team's area, and at the end I was the land team programmer while BigJ62 focused on getting the AI whipped into shape.

I know some ideas were on the list, but when push came to shove the effort needed vs the pay off was considered too high and they fell off the bottom of the to do list.

Bill