Russo-German War 1941-45

[sPzAbt653]

Make sure that the following Formations have separate colours from the rest:

German 1.Kavallerie Div
German Axis Nachsch Kol

All Axis Minors, each country has it's own color scheme

Soviets Coastal Army

These Formations withdraw by Colour. Therefore, if they are not separate, you will have a problem.

[:)]

[Cpl GAC]

I didn't do it "in" the editor - I followed Bob Cross's fantastic tutorial. So the 1st Kavallerie is still "unit color code #13" (but their color combination is now historical yellow gold trim foreground on panzer grau background, and all the OKH is on Feldgrau main color (and the Luftwaffe field divisions too because they were given color code #12 and I'm not changing that). Soviet Coastal same - unit color code #92. I didn't re-color the Axis Minors.

Note - Gerry Supply actually uses unit code #71 here - which is the Finnish main color in this scenario.

Let me know if this part needs a different thread - I'm assuming it withdraws color code #13, not the decimal color combo gray/gray/black/black. Does anyone know if that's correct?

My thought is one would almost be better starting in the COL file and changing/adjusting 8 color codes (2 columns - example; not only #10-#14 for OKH but expand the main color to #10-#18). As there are 22 "columns" of main colors, use 3-4 sets as one main color - THEN you could color Armies and Fronts for shorter-term scenarios instead of putting the Luftwaffe Field Divisions in the OKH and the Supply "in with the Finns" - IF the program doesn't read color in blocks of 4.

[sPzAbt653]

The program goes by the Numbers as seen in the chart that you posted [not by the actual colors]. So those numbers correspond to the chart [which is what is seen in the Editor but that doesn't show the numbers] or to the COL File Line #'s.

[Cpl GAC]

Thank you for clarifying that - the 1st Kavallerie is still <COLOR ID="13" .

Really well-done scenario, very much appreciated.

[Curtis Lemay]

Think how trivially easy this is to do under TOAW IV, compared to TOAW III.

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Think how trivially easy this is to do under TOAW IV, compared to TOAW III.

Depends what you're trying to achieve. I masked different colour schemes as the same scheme by copying and renaming the existing files, allowing me to leverage the "Withdraw Army" event to save me entering in masses and masses of "withdraw unit" events.

I was at a loss as to how to replicate this in TOAW IV so I went ahead and made all the "Withdraw Unit" events. A real pain in the arse.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Think how trivially easy this is to do under TOAW IV, compared to TOAW III.

Depends what you're trying to achieve. I masked different colour schemes as the same scheme by copying and renaming the existing files, allowing me to leverage the "Withdraw Army" event to save me entering in masses and masses of "withdraw unit" events.

I was at a loss as to how to replicate this in TOAW IV so I went ahead and made all the "Withdraw Unit" events. A real pain in the arse.

I was referring to re-colorizing the counters.

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


I was referring to re-colorizing the counters.

That's exactly what I was doing. I was taking green counters and turning them into grey counters. I didn't want a new colour, I wanted to copy an existing colour.

[Cpl GAC]

I don't want to open a can of worms, but if this chart is true, then recolored COLOR ID="4" fights and cooperates like COLOR ID="25", but you can withdraw all COLOR ID="4", make 4 and 5 look like 25 then upgrade 5, etc. If it's not true then you have to grind it out as you have.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


I was referring to re-colorizing the counters.

That's exactly what I was doing. I was taking green counters and turning them into grey counters. I didn't want a new colour, I wanted to copy an existing colour.

Re-colorizing the counters has no effect on withdrawal events, Army or otherwise.

[Lobster]

§§ Withdraw an Army: All units with exactly
the same icon color scheme (foreground
and background) as a selected unit will be
withdrawn from the Theater. This includes
Reinforcements not yet on the Map.

§§ Withdraw Unit/Army and Disband Unit
Events: ... require a unit specification.

Only the original color applies. Shoulda been changed to the edited color long ago.

[Cpl GAC]

An example color code line is; <COLOR ID="10" MainBackground="5070163" Background="16777215" Foreground="7106155" Numbers="16777215"/>

I'm not a programmer, but I bet Withdraw an Army was most likely based on "all units <COLOR ID="10"" , not all units having "MainBackground="5070163" Background="16777215" Foreground="7106155" Numbers="16777215"/> .

The program should act like "withdraw <COLOR ID="10" BUT <COLOR ID="22" MainBackground="5070163" Background="16777215" Foreground="7106155" Numbers="16777215"/> would not withdraw even though visually to us it looks the same because it's COLOR ID=# is different.

Hence my chart/question above - if the gold columns are true, then I doubt COLOR #22 withdraws because the program is only looking for COLOR #10... BUT COLOR #10 AND COLOR #22 should fully cooperate on Force Support and Army Support because for cooperation it needs to look past <COLOR ID=# to the Mainbackground= color and then the Background= color unless it's told "Internal Support" first.

But I could be way wrong. Mainbackground= #s (what we see as the counter's base color) are in groups of 5 and it might have some step about that before going to Mainbackground=.

[Lobster]

When the word icon is used replace it with unit or counter. The phrase 'icon color scheme' is used in other places in the manual. I think it's fairly clear what is meant: (sarcasm intened[;)])

§§ Internal Support: Units assigned to the
Formation may only freely cooperate with others
in the same Formation. Limited cooperation is
possible with units using the same icon color
scheme; no cooperation is possible with units
using a different icon color scheme.

§§ Army Support: Units assigned to the
Formation may only freely cooperate with
others in the same Formation, or those using
the same icon color scheme (icon and symbol
color)...

§§ Withdraw an Army: All units with exactly
the same icon color scheme (foreground
and background) as a selected unit will be
withdrawn from the Theater. This includes
Reinforcements not yet on the Map.

Unit Standard Icon Colors
Icon colors are significant. Remember that each
degree of separation you select in your icon color
schemes will add a degree of separation in unit
cooperation. Maximum cooperation is possible
between units with identical icon color schemes.
Less cooperation is available between icons with
similar background colors and different foreground
(symbol) colors. Very little cooperation is possible
between units with different icon base colors.

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Re-colorizing the counters has no effect on withdrawal events, Army or otherwise.

Exactly. I wanted to use the different colours to make the units withdraw, and it was easy to then mask the different colours by swapping in a different graphics file.

Now... I'm sure it's possible, but I found it quicker to go build an extra 100 or so events than figure out how.

[Cpl GAC]

Here's what I think is going on in the database architecture and how to solve your problem, Golden. Lobster, I put icon color scheme in bold for you...

I've never built a scenario and I'm not planning on starting that learning curve, but it's easy enough to test if someone would try it. It just requires recoloring 10 lines of color code in this three Army example - trival.

[Lobster]

The program will only use the original colors. Ignores what you do to change them. All you are changing are the graphics that are seen in the game. The original colors are still used for things like cooperation. It's hard coded unless something has changed that I'm not aware of.

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

The program will only use the original colors. Ignores what you do to change them. All you are changing are the graphics that are seen in the game. The original colors are still used for things like cooperation. It's hard coded unless something has changed that I'm not aware of.

I'm perfectly clear on that. The change is purely for the benefit of the player- who doesn't want to see red, green and blue German infantry just because they're withdrawn by different "withdraw army" events

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

Now... I'm sure it's possible, but I found it quicker to go build an extra 100 or so events than figure out how.

It would have been easier to figure out how - practically trivial, in fact. And then you would have known how to do what almost every scenario designer is now going to be doing on almost every new design: getting the colors perfect!

[sPzAbt653]

I'm not a programmer, but I bet Withdraw an Army was most likely based on "all units <COLOR ID="10""

It's based on the Unit # as seen in the color charts posted here. This way the program can tell that 5 is similar to 6 thru 9, but different from 65 thru 69. The confusion is that because those numbers are not seen by the user, whoever typed up the explanation used 'color' as a definition instead of 'scheme #3' or 'Icon #5' or some such. In reality, the program has no idea what color units are.

DL the chart and keep it handy and you will have a heads up on sanity [;)]

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
Now... I'm sure it's possible, but I found it quicker to go build an extra 100 or so events than figure out how.

It would have been easier to figure out how - practically trivial, in fact. And then you would have known how to do what almost every scenario designer is now going to be doing on almost every new design: getting the colors perfect!

Only because we are forced to. It used to be MUCH easier by using 'copy color' in any graphics program. 'Color Swap' would require one program and three clicks-done. The new process for IV requires eight programs and is cumbersome and time consuming. Plus it restricted the game to using only one set of counters. Plus it ruined many scenarios that used custom icon sets. These are contributing factors to why so many designers have left to work on other games.