My first go at this game, very enjoyable!

[RangerJoe]

Alfred put out a nice ship repair guide - somewhere!

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Alfred put out a nice ship repair guide - somewhere!

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... age=1&key=

[Psaeko]

A ship disbanded in port is usually safe from sinking, unless it continues to receive damage.

If only that were the case in real life.
Somewhere off the coast of hashira-jima lie the remains of the worlds most expensive warning against playing with fire [:D]
And that one wasn't even damaged in the first place when it was anchored.

[cblattmann]

It is great to read others getting into the game. I am playing "Coral Sea' as my first scenario. I love the battle reports from first sightings, smoke hinderance and so forth. The details ae amazing and very engrossing.

What surprised me was the the carriers TF engaged enemy TFs on their own and I was wondering why? What are the commands of naval attack and so forth for if the carrier group does it on their own. I went to the manual and I think I got a bit of an answer. Not sure if I drew the right conclusions.

When you create a new TF you specify what kind of TF it will be. So when I create a "air combat" TF it will handle the air combat automatically. But if I want to attack land based ground targets with that "air combat" TF then I have to issue an order to the airplanes to do the attack? So what a "sub patrol" TF will always attack ships (so to attack a certain TF I would have to issue orders to move into the same hex) but I would have to issue orders to the sub TF if I want to deploy mines in a certain hex, right?

Is that it?

[Randy Stead]

BBfanboy, all that you have said satisfies my question about how fire can sink a ship. I had never considered all those tiny openings in a vessel, such as prop shaft glands, which in totality of leakage, combined with popped hull plates and such can allow in sufficient water to sink a vessel, especially when considering that system and personnel losses can thwart pumping and damage control. It all makes more perfect sense.

I also realized I made a rookie mistake... I ordered my damaged carriers and other units to head to Australia at full speed. I had not considered speed as a factor in damage control; my only focus was on getting them out of Dodge as quickly as possible. As well, I did not add a large ship to the escort of the lone destroyer automatically assigned to escort. Should I have put the Lexington in with Yorktown, or will a cruiser or two suffice? I had the Lexington speed off on her own as she was much faster than the more heavily damaged Yorktown.

Looking back on it, I am wondering if I could have saved Yorktown if I had not ordered full speed all the way to Oz.

[RangerJoe]

I think that it is better to use the DDs and other small ships as escorts in the escort TF.

[Randy Stead]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I think that it is better to use the DDs and other small ships as escorts in the escort TF.

That would seem to make more sense to me, but BBfanboy suggests, if possible, to put a ship of similar size in the escort convoy to assist with damage control on the way to sanctuary. Does this help much in the game?

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: cblattmann

It is great to read others getting into the game. I am playing "Coral Sea' as my first scenario. I love the battle reports from first sightings, smoke hinderance and so forth. The details ae amazing and very engrossing.

What surprised me was the the carriers TF engaged enemy TFs on their own and I was wondering why? What are the commands of naval attack and so forth for if the carrier group does it on their own. I went to the manual and I think I got a bit of an answer. Not sure if I drew the right conclusions.

When you create a new TF you specify what kind of TF it will be. So when I create a "air combat" TF it will handle the air combat automatically. But if I want to attack land based ground targets with that "air combat" TF then I have to issue an order to the airplanes to do the attack? So what a "sub patrol" TF will always attack ships (so to attack a certain TF I would have to issue orders to move into the same hex) but I would have to issue orders to the sub TF if I want to deploy mines in a certain hex, right?

Is that it?

Not quite.

Nothing is "automatic" in the sense of independent active operations occurring without initial player input, unless you set task forces to computer control which you should never, under any circumstances do.

You must always set the parameters of what you want your assets to do (be they land, air or sea). The game will continue carrying out those parameters until you change them. Hence if an air unit is set to perform naval attacks, it won't do anything else until your change the orders.

Land targets can be selected by the player (or left up to the computer). If the player chooses Base A as the target for an air unit, the air unit will not attack any other bases other than Base A, and then only the specified type of attack against Base A. If you want the unit to attack Base B, or perform a different type of attack against Base A, it won't happen until you change the unit's orders.

A naval task force can never be selected as a target by a human player.

You should carefully read the manual regarding task forces which are given an area to patrol and those not given an area to patrol. Again the former will continue carrying out those orders until you either change them or one of the conditions to automatically terminate the patrol arise.

When you get more experienced with the game engine, you will find there are several "safety triggers which cause assets to automatically cease carrying out their orders. When this occurs, the assets do nothing (air/land) or return to the home port (naval).

Alfred

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: cblattmann

It is great to read others getting into the game. I am playing "Coral Sea' as my first scenario. I love the battle reports from first sightings, smoke hinderance and so forth. The details ae amazing and very engrossing.

What surprised me was the the carriers TF engaged enemy TFs on their own and I was wondering why? What are the commands of naval attack and so forth for if the carrier group does it on their own. I went to the manual and I think I got a bit of an answer. Not sure if I drew the right conclusions.

Click on the TF, then click on the individual air craft carriers. Set the missions for each air unit. Fighters for CAP (Combat Air Patrol) and Escort mission. Set the bombers for the mission that you want with any secondary mission. The VS bomber units were the Scout Bombers that you may have read about. They would normally use 50% for scouting with the rest waiting to bomb a target. The VB was used at 100% for bombing. The Torpedo Bombers early would best be left for ASW even if not highly trained. Their range is too short and the torpedoes ineffective. But they can still be used for Naval Attack. Be sure not to set your bombers to attack past the range of your fighters.

Set the reaction range and threat level for the TF to what you want.

When you create a new TF you specify what kind of TF it will be. So when I create a "air combat" TF it will handle the air combat automatically. But if I want to attack land based ground targets with that "air combat" TF then I have to issue an order to the airplanes to do the attack? So what a "sub patrol" TF will always attack ships (so to attack a certain TF I would have to issue orders to move into the same hex) but I would have to issue orders to the sub TF if I want to deploy mines in a certain hex, right?

See above for the air units.

For subs, it is best to set them to patrol a specific hex or hexes. If you want to lay a minefield, there has to be mines available and the ability to load them in a large enough port or a port with support. That is not always the case. Then tell them to go to that specific hex and you have to make sure they they will "Lay Mines" as that is a selection that you must make.

Is that it?

I hope that helps.

[RangerJoe]

Alfred,

I did not see your post before I posted mine. I don't think that our answers conflict.

Joe

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I think that it is better to use the DDs and other small ships as escorts in the escort TF.

That would seem to make more sense to me, but BBfanboy suggests, if possible, to put a ship of similar size in the escort convoy to assist with damage control on the way to sanctuary. Does this help much in the game?

It appears to help with the smaller ships plus the smaller ships also help against submarines. The more ships, the merrier. [;)]

The USS Hammann was helping with the Yorktown when they were both torpedoed. For some reason, I try not to have both of them in the same TF in the game. I also try to keep both of them away from the I-168 for some reason. [8|]

[RangerJoe]

By the way, if you would rather make than buy the first item in that list of suggestions that I gave you, I can give you some simple but good recipes. [8D]

I did talk to someone about my suggestions and she thought that they were a good idea.[;)]

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: cblattmann

It is great to read others getting into the game. I am playing "Coral Sea' as my first scenario. I love the battle reports from first sightings, smoke hinderance and so forth. The details ae amazing and very engrossing.

What surprised me was the the carriers TF engaged enemy TFs on their own and I was wondering why? What are the commands of naval attack and so forth for if the carrier group does it on their own. I went to the manual and I think I got a bit of an answer. Not sure if I drew the right conclusions.

When you create a new TF you specify what kind of TF it will be. So when I create a "air combat" TF it will handle the air combat automatically. But if I want to attack land based ground targets with that "air combat" TF then I have to issue an order to the airplanes to do the attack? So what a "sub patrol" TF will always attack ships (so to attack a certain TF I would have to issue orders to move into the same hex) but I would have to issue orders to the sub TF if I want to deploy mines in a certain hex, right?

Is that it?

Air Combat TFs have a special react (not the one you can set in the TF screen, an AI driven one) that causes carriers to attack one another or flee the threat. The react may or may not include movement by a few hexes. That is just movement of the ships - you need to give the air units on the carriers orders for the type of mission they must fly. When enemy ships are expected you normally set bombers to Naval Attack with a % to Naval Search/ASW and fighters to Escort with a % assigned to CAP. With these settings your aircraft will attack enemy ships based on detection level and ship types. Be warned: if both enemy transports and carriers are present, you attacks by be split and less effective. You want your carriers to be undetected while have good detection on the enemy.

If your air units are assigned to attack a land target in both morning and afternoon (say a setting for Naval Attack/Airfield Attack) they will not be available for an attack on enemy shipping. In the Coral Sea scenario, the RL USN did not know how bloody carrier combat would be in aircraft losses and carrier vulnerability. Had they known, they would have had more fighters to protect their carriers even if that meant fewer bombers. They also would have implemented measures to purge aircraft refueling lines when enemy aircraft were approaching. That would have saved Lexington. So in that scenario you fighting the handicaps of too few fighters and carriers that burn up easily, but you have the advantage of foreknowledge of the general movements of the enemy.

Submarines set to Patrol will carry a full torpedo load to go and locate/attack enemy ships of any type. If they can get past the escorts they will attack the most valuable enemy ship, but die rolls and captains' skills determine if they get into position or not. If you set the sub to a Mining mission, they will load mostly mines but retain a few torpedoes. They will avoid attacking ships until they lay their mines and then will attack shipping if the opportunity presents itself. If something causes the sub to abort the mining mission, it will return to home port and, unless you change the order to "Do Not Lay Mines", it will lay its mines at the home port. I find it best to leave the minelaying sub with the "Do Not Lay Mines" order and send it to a waypoint or patrol point next to the target hex. Once it is there I give the order to lay mines and set the target hex. The sub is less likely to abort and RTB early with that set of orders but you need to monitor mission progress.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Alfred,

I did not see your post before I posted mine. I don't think that our answers conflict.

Joe

Ditto to both of you!

[Randy Stead]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I think that it is better to use the DDs and other small ships as escorts in the escort TF.

That would seem to make more sense to me, but BBfanboy suggests, if possible, to put a ship of similar size in the escort convoy to assist with damage control on the way to sanctuary. Does this help much in the game?

It appears to help with the smaller ships plus the smaller ships also help against submarines. The more ships, the merrier. [;)]

The USS Hammann was helping with the Yorktown when they were both torpedoed. For some reason, I try not to have both of them in the same TF in the game. I also try to keep both of them away from the I-168 for some reason. [8|]

For similar reasons, do you split up the Sullivan brothers, or leave them all on the same ship?

I hear you. When I play a game, any game about war, I find I have special attachments to certain units. If I play Russia Besieged, for example, I always think of Guy Sajer when I see the Gross Deutschland unit on the board. I think of Doolittle when I see Hornet, etc.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead




That would seem to make more sense to me, but BBfanboy suggests, if possible, to put a ship of similar size in the escort convoy to assist with damage control on the way to sanctuary. Does this help much in the game?

It appears to help with the smaller ships plus the smaller ships also help against submarines. The more ships, the merrier. [;)]

The USS Hammann was helping with the Yorktown when they were both torpedoed. For some reason, I try not to have both of them in the same TF in the game. I also try to keep both of them away from the I-168 for some reason. [8|]

For similar reasons, do you split up the Sullivan brothers, or leave them all on the same ship?

I hear you. When I play a game, any game about war, I find I have special attachments to certain units. If I play Russia Besieged, for example, I always think of Guy Sajer when I see the Gross Deutschland unit on the board. I think of Doolittle when I see Hornet, etc.

Unfortunately, you can't assign individual crew members. One of the Sullivan brothers did survive the sinking and was on a life raft but was not rescued in time.

[Randy Stead]

I know that; I should've used emoticons to convey that it wasn't a serious post.

I wonder about policies with respect to splitting up close relations in combat units. In WWI the British deployed "pals" battalions, units of men drafted or volunteered from local areas. On one hand it facilitated very close bonds that boosted morale but at the same time made the effects of large casualties more demoralizing both at the front and at home as the casualty lists were published.

[Randy Stead]

In my eagerness to get going as IJN in Coral Sea scenario, I completely FUBARed my first turn. I completely forgot to set my subs to do anything. As well, I saw no use for the two TFs near Tulagi, so I set them no orders. What should I do with them? I did split the 27 Zeroes at Rabaul, sending 9 each to Zuikaku and Shokaku. I also sent the Kates on Shoho to one of the big carriers. None of my bombers from Rabaul did anything; I thought they would go and bomb PM, but they did not. Hmm, more to learn.

The Americans plastered ships from those two idle TFs near Tulagi and sank several ships for the loss of a scant few planes. The useless Wirraways even had the nerve to pull off an unescorted attack on Lae, but ineffectively. I had set the Zeroes there to sweep, thinking they would fly over PM and intercept any P-40s that might try to reinforce.

Back to the drawing board.

[RangerJoe]

I guess that you should call that turn very educational! [;)]

[Randy Stead]

Extremely so, Joe. I learned more in one turn as the IJN than the Allies in two full scenario plays!

So, some observations from simply loading the game as IJN turn 1, with no actions plotted, just snooping:

TF5 is at Tulagi, mission: amphibious. It has no troops or cargo loaded. The base is too small for much. Looking around the map I am wondering what is the purpose of this empty TF? Am I supposed to send it to Truk or Rabaul and load it up with supplies for Port Moresby? Send it back to home port? There are virtually no troops on the map I can find except for a few engineers and base forces. Am I to load the engineers and use them to take empty Allied bases? Seems pointless, but then again I am a cherry rookie fumbling with the buttons of his first date.

TF4 is in the Solomon Islands chain, near Rakata Bay. It is labelled as MO Close Cover Force. I did nothing with it but the arrogant American decadent running dog capitalist imperialists [just ran out of epithets] had the effrontery to attack it and sank a few of the Emperor's much needed ships. Lesson to rookies: Look at TF labels; the scenario designer is giving you a clue as to what it should be used for. Next replay I shall send it west to cover the MO landing forces, probably what they were intended to do.

Although it would be a nice reinforcement for the fighter groups of the carriers, the splitting of the 27 plane Zero unit at Rabaul seems to weaken Rabaul. I am not a wise man yet, but I would think leaving them there would make my strikes on PM more effective. The Zeros at Lae I will not set to sweep, at least not until I get better at assigning bombers. When I watch the AI I see Bettys [?] from Rabaul hitting PM with escort from Lae and Rabaul. I can do better in this area.

Lastly, is it really good advice to send the 6 Kates from Shoho over to the main fleet? Yes, it gives that fleet more punch, but then what is the point of Shoho's TF with only fighters aboard? I tried to set her Claude's to naval search but could not. Are they any good in air to air? Or, never mind and I shall learn the harder, but more memorable way.