Poll: First DW2 expansion?

[Miletkir]

ORIGINAL: Whiskiz

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Jump gates are a problem on two fronts:
1. They are largely unessesary, given the wide access to hyperdrives
2. They are a pathfinding nightmare. Every gateway is connected to all other gateways, meaning the number of paths to take from any gateway increaes exponentially with the number of gateways.
Even real life pathfinding does not have to deal with Teleporters in every major city. And that one at least can calculate a few seconds to a minute for any pathing question.

You think jump gates would be a pathfinding nightmare try orbital planets in a 3D world

"And after eight years of hard work, Distant Worlds 2 finally gets its first expansion: Orbiting Jump Gates!"

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Miletkir
"And after eight years of hard work, Distant Worlds 2 finally gets its first expansion: Orbiting Jump Gates!"

Ooh, now we're talking. [8D]

[Whiskiz]

ORIGINAL: Miletkir

ORIGINAL: Whiskiz

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Jump gates are a problem on two fronts:
1. They are largely unessesary, given the wide access to hyperdrives
2. They are a pathfinding nightmare. Every gateway is connected to all other gateways, meaning the number of paths to take from any gateway increaes exponentially with the number of gateways.
Even real life pathfinding does not have to deal with Teleporters in every major city. And that one at least can calculate a few seconds to a minute for any pathing question.

You think jump gates would be a pathfinding nightmare try orbital planets in a 3D world

"And after eight years of hard work, Distant Worlds 2 finally gets its first expansion: Orbiting Jump Gates!"

[SirHoraceHarkness]

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

Jump gates are a problem on two fronts:
1. They are largely unessesary, given the wide access to hyperdrives
2. They are a pathfinding nightmare. Every gateway is connected to all other gateways, meaning the number of paths to take from any gateway increaes exponentially with the number of gateways.
Even real life pathfinding does not have to deal with Teleporters in every major city. And that one at least can calculate a few seconds to a minute for any pathing question.

My asking for at least a mod function for wormholes/jump gates isn't for this game its for the other sci fi universe mods that use such a mechanic. As to the implementation there isn't any requirement they link to all gates just one other gate. Most of the games that feature this do it that way like in sins of a solar empire. Any ship crossing a certain boundary leaves that wormhole and appears in its paired wormhole. Same with jump gates. This isn't an overly complicated mechanic to code in but it is an extra mechanic the game as designed doesn't use so as Erik has said it will be for some future expansion so they can focus on getting the core game out and us happily playing and forging our new empires.

As to the orbiting planets? Eh. It made for some interesting defensive situations when you would get three planets all aligned and their defenses overlapping but it rarely lasted long enough to ever matter. Doing it this way will allow for some interesting system configurations and possibly the introduction of 'terrain' inside a system that blocks or slows direct travel.

[ASHBERY76]

So happy most have good taste.The best and unique part of this game is the economy so making more of it is the choice.

Playing pirates zzzzzz.To be honest it was a weak expansion in DW1.

[Miletkir]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Miletkir
"And after eight years of hard work, Distant Worlds 2 finally gets its first expansion: Orbiting Jump Gates!"

Ooh, now we're talking. [8D]

Ladies and gentlemen, Erik Rutins officially takes on the challenge.

[geforth]

Sorry, but non orbiting planets means that the game is static like Stellaris and I dont understand, why it should be more cpu intensive than in the previous one? Is there a y axix or a simulation of the gravitation like in Universe Sandbox? Why don't you give the user the choice? The dynamic of the universe was unique in Distant Worlds and that is one point, why I love this game. I hope that distant worlds 2 won't go too far away from its predecessor. [:)]

[Erik Rutins]

I can assure you it still feels like Distant Worlds and the galaxy is dynamic and active. It is not a static game. I realize many folks loved the orbiting planets, but I explained earlier and I believe it's quoted above or in the FAQ thread why planets now rotate but do not orbit.

[geforth]

Thank you for your answer. [:)] And please don't get me wrong, I'm still looking forward to the game [:)]

[UsF]

I would love the pre-warp phase be expanded. Sending out colonist ships at slower than light speed obviously would require a much larger time scale to adapt for that, but the effects and challenges that would come with such alterations would be very interesting. Probably a different kind of game though, as it would need to model the lack of instant information and it traveling at the speed of light, too.

[Miletkir]

ORIGINAL: UsF

I would love the pre-warp phase be expanded. Sending out colonist ships at slower than light speed obviously would require a much larger time scale to adapt for that, but the effects and challenges that would come with such alterations would be very interesting. Probably a different kind of game though, as it would need to model the lack of instant information and it traveling at the speed of light, too.

Have you tried Aurora 4X? The interface is daunting, but it offers pretty much what you describe.

[Erik Rutins]

I'd also like to do that in the future. We'll see if we get to it, I imagine it's a somewhat niche interest as there is an element of watching paint dry to sublight play.

[UsF]

ORIGINAL: Miletkir
Have you tried Aurora 4X? The interface is daunting, but it offers pretty much what you describe.

I have. The turn based nature and lack of automation makes it more difficult to get into. Plus before the C version it was very hard to run.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I'd also like to do that in the future. We'll see if we get to it, I imagine it's a somewhat niche interest as there is an element of watching paint dry to sublight play.

True it might need a conversion of the whole advancement of time, to set it at an about similar pace, but that would throw the interactions in your own solar system off.

[OnePercent]

Orbiting planets! Orbiting Planets! Orbiting Planets!

[Miskatonic81]

I would also love to see an expanded pre-warp phase at some point. While it's true there's an element of paint-drying, I also never play DW1 without starting in pre-warp. It's one of the more unique phases of the game, and the contrast makes the tech advances feel more meaningful.

[Whiskiz]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I'd also like to do that in the future. We'll see if we get to it, I imagine it's a somewhat niche interest as there is an element of watching paint dry to sublight play.

Maybe make sublight interesting by making it a mini version of the rest of the game - put a mini threat/faction that needs to be fought to expand in the starting system, maybe that sends small attacks with small ships towards your stuff - either a small pirate outpost or a little creature enclave.

That way there's early need for more military, more early combat than just a couple static creatures to clear, early expansion still requires consideration and strategy etc.

Maybe a ragtag pirate bunch in a rundown Spacestation with compromised shield/hull/weapons.

See what makes the rest of the game interesting and try to replicate it on a smaller scale.

[Miletkir]

Meh. I wouldn't want my "first contact" to be too early.
What could be good though would be a "unite your empire" early storyline where your starting empire would be made of different factions getting their hands on different assets of your system, and you would have to convince or force them to join. Though a bit tricky if you can only start with a single starport.

[Whiskiz]

Yeah you don't start off with any assets.

You build a couple then they take over/faction break?

What would that look like and what support would it need just for pre-warp - since it hasn't been made and supported in the rest of the game.

At least with downsizing the game to a sector level, everything's already there.

You say first contact would be too early but it was otherwise likened to watching paint dry, so sounds like there's some sort of room for it [:'(]

Especially if only pirates/creatures, not other actual empires - could even be a split part of your faction instead of pirates/creatures to keep the whole first contact novelty intact. Not that you don't meet pirates or creatures soon after, in the first sector anyway.

And not that that matters to people after like the first couple playthroughs.

[Miletkir]

I like the assumption that when your civilization starts, its people think they are alone in the galaxy, or at least that they don't know. If you have another species in the system or some close by or even space monsters within sensor range, that breaks it. Since you just met the requirements for sustained space travel, having established pirates somewhere in the system already doesn't make sense either - I suppose by a stretch of the imagination, they might have done it "secretly"...

In what is a contender for my favorite space strategy/rts game of all times, Haegemonia: Legions of Iron, the starting scenario has Mars breaking off from Earth's influence, and a war for Sol ensues (granted, it's a recurrent theme in games and TV shows...). But this provides tension early on and sets the stakes - when you finally manage to unite your people to conquer the stars as one, it feels great.

There could be several ways to make that happen. Since it's now 3D, you could allow concurrent spaceports at your starting planet, representing the different factions. Or you could queue assets to build at the spaceport but not actually own it at first. Or since you can apparently build anything on your planet without spaceport in DW2, you could pop faction ships from the planet directly.

[zgrssd]

ORIGINAL: Miskatonic81

I would also love to see an expanded pre-warp phase at some point. While it's true there's an element of paint-drying, I also never play DW1 without starting in pre-warp. It's one of the more unique phases of the game, and the contrast makes the tech advances feel more meaningful.

A big issues in DW1 was that you only could move STL in the pre-warp phase, so most of the places in your own system were not realy exploitable - or defendable. Especailly not against fully FTL capable pirates.
In DW2 we will have the "skip drive" as a very early FTL. Basically a Hyperdrive that only works within the System. This would be a requirement to make a extended interplanetary phase viable.

Maybe they could add the "Skip Drive Age" between Pre-FTL and Interstellar Civilisation?

ORIGINAL: Miletkir

Meh. I wouldn't want my "first contact" to be too early.
What could be good though would be a "unite your empire" early storyline where your starting empire would be made of different factions getting their hands on different assets of your system, and you would have to convince or force them to join. Though a bit tricky if you can only start with a single starport.

Pirates can build spaceports without needing a colony.

ORIGINAL: Miletkir

I like the assumption that when your civilization starts, its people think they are alone in the galaxy, or at least that they don't know. If you have another species in the system or some close by or even space monsters within sensor range, that breaks it. Since you just met the requirements for sustained space travel, having established pirates somewhere in the system already doesn't make sense either - I suppose by a stretch of the imagination, they might have done it "secretly"...

Most species in DW1 are fully aware there are other species. It is strongly indicated that civilisation follows a circle:
1. Planets aquire the space age roughly at the same time
2. Planets become interstellar empires
3. Galactic Civilsiation collapses, leaving only scattered colony worlds
4. Return to 1

In DW1 you usually have 3 habitable planets (just add technology) in your home System. And 1-2 derilict ships.

Stellaris actually cares quite a bit for "having encountered another species". It is a requirement for the Faction System to become enabeled, among other things. And the space fauna/sentient geology/sentient gasclouds do not count.
The early signs of intelligence (the mining drones) are just remanents. Not any more interesting then ruin to show "there is other life now".

Maybe this was a pirate station in hibernation, crew in stasis, on the far side of a gas giant. And scanners/early FTL activity activated it.
Maybe it was a "nest" of mining drones or cosmozeans, activated by your scanners.
Maybe this is a splinter faction, that had infiltrated your military and created a hidden spaceport and build some ships in secret.
There are many ways to probide a early challenge, without saying "there is alien life active right now!"