Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests

[pjcoia]

A very minor annoyance: Australian classes "38 Perth" and "41 Brisbane" seem to be the only Australian classes missing the class component of their pennant, in this case "D".

[Broncepulido]

Thanks for your very interesting info and site, RyanCrierie !!! For years using (and citing as source) your site, mainly for Harpoon HCE/HUCE platforms (and probably in some little academic paper in the near future). Very useful data to demostrate bisonic jet fighters (and others) at maximum military power usually are not supersonic capable.

[hellfish6]

They USS Grayback and USS Growler SSGs (#46, #47, #48 and #50 in the DB) have 60-ton diesel fuel bunkers. Looking at the Tang-class SS boats that they're based on, they all have 60-ton bunkers too. This seems really small, and their in-game endurance is pretty low. I can't find any info on the actual size of the bunkers, but comparing it to GUPPY I and II boats, they seem pretty small. Just checking to make sure these are accurate.

[Broncepulido]

Grayback and Growler are, as per Conway's 1947-1995, more based on the Darter design, evolved and improved from Tang.
Grayback and Growler have roughly a 30% bigger displacement than Darter.
Darter surface range is stated as 13500 nm at 10 knots in "US Submarines from 1945" (Tang 11500@10), page 242, Norman Friedman, US Naval Institute 1994.

[RyanCrierie]

According to Norman Friedman's US Submarines Through 1945; the Gato, Balao and Tench classes had the following Diesel fuel capacities:

Gato:
175 long tons (normal)
324.25 long tons (maximum)

Balao
175.94 long tons (normal)
300.91 long tons (maximum)

Tench
193.87 long tons (normal)
361.46 long tons (maximum)

TUNNY (Gato) and BARBERO (Balao) had their two Regulus I missiles stowed in a huge pressure proof deck cylinder container originally made for the PERCH submersible troop carrier submarine project; so they'd have the same rough fuel characteristics as their WWII Fleet Boat versions.

GRAYBACK/GROWLER were conversions of already under construction submarines via by cutting them in half on the slip and inserting a new section containing the missile hangar. I'll contact the INTREPID air-sea-space museum (they have one of the remaining conversions) to find out what the fuel loading of the boat was.

[RyanCrierie]

Per the INTREPID museum, GROWLER held approximately 90,000 gallons of diesel when her bunkers were full.

[.Sirius]

Hi guys thanks for the fuel infomation on the Submarines you mentioned Ill update as required thanks again

[RyanCrierie]

I assume the maximum numbers for the WWII fleet boats were through filling ballast tanks or water tanks with diesel. I don't know if the usn continued that practice after ww2.

[.Sirius]

Hi Ryan noted gonna go for standard amount of fuel for this

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

I assume the maximum numbers for the WWII fleet boats were through filling ballast tanks or water tanks with diesel. I don't know if the usn continued that practice after ww2.

[RyanCrierie]

Just did the calculations for GROWLER's fuel bunkers: 90,000 gallons of diesel at 7.49 lb/gallon is about 300.9375 long tons.

I also found some more technical terms on the fuel bunkers -- the term is either

"Fuel Ballast Tanks" (WWII)
http://maritime.org/doc/fleetsub/chap4.htm

which gives the fuel capacity for USS Perch (SS-313) a Balao class submarine as:

Normal fuel oil tank group:
1. NFOT No. 1 11,401 gallons
2. NFOT No. 2 13,122 gallons
3. NFOT No. 6 15,201 gallons
4. NFOT No. 7 10,054 gallons
5. Collecting tank 2,993 gallons
6. Expansion tank 2,993 gallons

Clean fuel oil tank group:
1. CFOT No. 1 611 gallons
2. CFOT No. 2 618 gallons

Fuel Ballast Tanks
1. Fuel ballast tanks Nos. 3A and 3B 19,196 gallons
2. Fuel ballast tanks Nos. 4A and 4B 24,089 gallons
3. Fuel ballast tanks Nos. 5A and 5B 19,458 gallons

--------------

or

"Compensated fuel ballast tanks" (Modern).
http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/lawsguida ... nsated.pdf

The Navy is the only branch of the Armed Forces whose vessels utilize compensated fuel
ballast systems. Compensated fuel ballast systems are used only on CG 47 Class cruisers; DD
963 Class, DDG 993 Class, and DDG 51 Class destroyers; and all non-conventional submarine
classes

So it does look like the USN continued use of fuel ballast tanks post-war.

The idea is that as the ship or submarine leaves port; they run exclusively off the fuel ballast tanks; to empty them first (and deal with any possible water contamination of fuel by having it at the beginning of the voyage); in order to have them full of sea water when in the combat zone (or patrol zone).

[e2204588]

SC-1 Seahawk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_SC_Seahawk

[Primarchx]

US HH-3 Jolly Green Giant ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-61R

Soviet Big Bar B Radar ... https://books.google.com/books?id=HoxycYhoKZkC&pg=PA279&lpg=PA279&dq=%22big+bar+b%22+radar&source=bl&ots=9nC3XhaFbL&sig=yVyGzPxTP-jIRdC3UkAaSrLCjI0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Imq0VIq6JcmgNr3BgpgL&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22big%20bar%20b%22%20radar&f=false

[KenPrescott]

Lockheed proposed a strike-capable variant of the SR-71 that could carry four SRAMs and lob them five hundred NM downrange and about two hundred NM cross-range. It could've dropped four B57s as an alternative loadout. It never came to fruition, but what if it had?

[.Sirius]

Noted

ORIGINAL: KenPrescott

Lockheed proposed a strike-capable variant of the SR-71 that could carry four SRAMs and lob them five hundred NM downrange and about two hundred NM cross-range. It could've dropped four B57s as an alternative loadout. It never came to fruition, but what if it had?

[.Sirius]

Noted

ORIGINAL: Primarchx

US HH-3 Jolly Green Giant ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-61R

Soviet Big Bar B Radar ... https://books.google.com/books?id=HoxycYhoKZkC&pg=PA279&lpg=PA279&dq=%22big+bar+b%22+radar&source=bl&ots=9nC3XhaFbL&sig=yVyGzPxTP-jIRdC3UkAaSrLCjI0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Imq0VIq6JcmgNr3BgpgL&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22big%20bar%20b%22%20radar&f=false

[PN79]

Hello,
this is my request for Czechoslovak AAA and SAMs in 1960s:


1) heavy AAA

AAA Bty (85mm KS-12 x 6) -- Czechoslovakia [-1992] --- NEW UNIT based on # 1635 - AAA Bty (85mm KS-12 x 4)
differences from # 1635:
SENZORS / EW
1x Fire Can [SON-9] --- radar squad
1x Generic Optical Sight --- squad with optical sight working for whole battery (for all guns)
1x Mk1 Eyeball
1x Generic Binoculars --- visual search squad
MOUNTS / STORES / WEAPONS
6x 85mm M1944 --- Czechoslovakia used later variant of KS-12
1x Vehicle (Fire Can [SON-9])
1x 30mm M53/59 Praga --- one squad for close defense (czechoslovak designation: 30mm PLDvK vz. 53/59), actually its predecessor - towed version 30mm M53 (30mm PLDvK vz. 53) would be more suitable but effect is same
// 1x Binoculars (visual) --- I do not know if this has to be here or not

NOTE: 85mm KS-12 (M1944 and in Czechoslovakia also known as 85mm PLK vz. 44S) were originally deployed in rings to protect important cities in State Air Defense but later were transferred to Army which used them to early 1980s. Usually there were six guns in batteries especially later in Army organization.

AAA Bty (130mm KS-30 x 8) -- Czechoslovakia [-1992], 1x bty --- MODIFIED UNIT # 1430 - AAA Bty (130mm KS-30 x 4, Fire Wheel FCR)
differences from original:
MOUNTS / STORES / WEAPONS
8x 130mm KS-30
1x Vehicle (Fire Wheel [SON-30])
1x 30mm M53/59 Praga
// 1x Binoculars (visual) --- I do not know if this has to be here or not

NOTE: Czechoslovakia used just this one 130mm battery with eight guns. After State Air Defense got enough SAMs the battery was transferred to Army which used it to the end of 1960s/early 1970s.


2) SAMs

SAM Bn (SA-2a Guideline [SA-75 Dvina] -- Czechoslovakia [-1992], 1959, 1x bn --- NEW UNIT based on # 708 - SAM Bn (SA-2a Guideline [S-75 Dvina]; note - correct native name is "SA-75" (S-75 is for later Desna - SA-2c)
differences from # 708:
SENZORS / EW
Fan Song A [RSNA-75]
Knife Rest B [P-10]
1x Mk1 Eyeball --- to represent ability to see of two 30mm M53/59 Praga
MOUNTS / STORES / WEAPONS
Mounts
6x SA-2a Guideline Single Rail
1x Vehicle (Fan Song A [SNR-75])
1x Vehicle (Knife Rest B [P-10]) --- NEW UNIT - not in a game as "mount"
2x 30mm M53/59 Praga --- two squads for close defense
Magazines
SA-2a Guideline Battalion --- Stores: 6x SA-2a Guideline [SA-75 Dvina, 1D / V-750] (max 12) --- Czechoslovak SA-2 battalions had only 12 missiles stored, so if 6 are on the rails there can be only another 6 in battalion storage.

NOTE: Czechoslovakia obtained one battery of original SA-2a with 1D missiles. This battery was originally placed near Prague but it was transferred to Bratislava during 1962 as the original unit got new SA-2b (SA-75M).

SAM Bn (SA-2b Guideline [SA-75M Dvina] -- Czechoslovakia [-1992], 1960, 15x bn --- MODIFIED UNIT # 755 - SAM Bn (SA-2b Guideline [S-75 Dvina]; note - correct native name is "SA-75M"
differences from original:
SENZORS / EW
Fan Song B [SNR-75]
Spoon Rest A [P-12]
1x Mk1 Eyeball --- to represent ability to see of two 30mm M53/59 Praga
MOUNTS / STORES / WEAPONS
Mounts
6x SA-2b Guideline Single Rail
1x Vehicle (Fan Song B [SNR-75])
1x Vehicle (Spoon Rest A [P-12])
2x 30mm M53/59 Praga --- two squads for close defense
Magazines
SA-2b Guideline Battalion --- Stores: 6x SA-2b Guideline [SA-75M Dvina, 11D / V-750V] (max 12) --- Czechoslovak SA-2 battalions had only 12 missiles stored, so if 6 are on the rails there can be only another 6 in battalion storage.

NOTE: The first three batteries of SA-2b were acquired in 1960 together with 1D missiles, newer 11D were imported just one year later and become main missile of czechoslovak Dvina (SA-2a,SA-2b). Czechoslovak SA-2b served to the end of 1980s/early 1990s.


If further information are necessary, please let me know.

Regards,
Pavel Novak

[MR_BURNS2]

#284 - Lancaster B.1

Minor, They were in service with the Navy/Aeronavale, not Air Force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Av ... _operators
http://www.lancaster-archive.com/lanc_p ... france.htm

[Broncepulido]

More details about the very interesting French ASW Lancaster WU B.VII (in French), 22 built:
http://www.ffaa.net/aircraft/lancaster/ ... tiques.htm
In short:
- Mk54 depth charges.
- 4000 Kg payload.
- APLAR and T1945 sonobuoys.
- ARR-3 sonobuoy tactical processor.
- APS-15 surface search radar.
- 2x7.7mm MG in front turret.
- 4x12.7mm MG in tail turret.

[Broncepulido]

Perhaps Egyptian Lancaster, Stirling and Halifax, but probably never employed in operations:
http://www.lancaster-archive.com/lanc_postwar-egypt.htm

Suez Crisis 1956:
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_256.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_257.shtml

Halifax in Egypt:
http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/b/560/198/0

Stirling in Egypt:
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_251.shtml

An interesting report about the Hastings (employed in the 1956 campaing):
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/1 ... e-Cold-War#

[.Sirius]

All the Lancaster Stuff noted and will update