I respect HMS resolution's point of view, but I disagree. Going toe to toe with the KB is exactly the decisive battle I would be looking for if I were the Empire. I believe your current tactic of staying out of his reach and interdicting the sea lanes is much more effective. This is because his supply line in tenuous and his bases weak relative to yours. Better use for the carriers would be another raid of sakhalin, or at any point in his supply chain up to Hilo.
I also suggest a major bombardment attack on the overstacked base at Hilo with as many cruisers as you think you can spare. A BB too if at PH. Hilo is 5 hexes from Pearl. Using waypoints, you can sprint out and back before KB can strike. You should be able to crater the overstacked airfield and decimate the air compliment in a single decisive blow. Follow it up with a massive air bombardment in the morning, and you will have gone a long ways to turning the campaign.
Anyway, from my backseat, you are doing pretty well in defense of PH.
Ocean of (Allied) Blood.
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
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topeverest
- Posts: 3380
- Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:47 am
- Location: Houston, TX - USA
RE: 27th and 28th March 1942
Andy M
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HMS Resolution
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:31 pm
RE: 27th and 28th March 1942
Respectfully, I must differ with my esteemed colleague. Where's the nearest base the IJN carriers can retire to for repairs? Any serious damage puts them in grave danger, and will likely force them to retire. The enemy must be overreaching himself, and if he loses control of the air over Pearl, he stands to suffer serious losses in men (and ships, if he tries to extricate his forces). Obviously, any battle involves a certain element of risk, but I think the potential benefits strongly outweigh the potential losses. Your carriers are fresh, his are not. I think striking instead of beginning the next upgrade cycle is a fine plan.
RE: 27th and 28th March 1942
Well, since he does know where the KB is (although is probably is still a powerful force & should have most, if not all of its torpedo loads available), it does raise an interesting question of whether or not he should seek battle.
I am a huge fan of attritional tactics - as PH is much closer to the production centers (and reinforcements) than the Japanese are at the moment. Also, if you can inflict major damage now, even with some losses on your part, you will only continue to get stronger.
Something to think about - fortune favors the brave.
I am a huge fan of attritional tactics - as PH is much closer to the production centers (and reinforcements) than the Japanese are at the moment. Also, if you can inflict major damage now, even with some losses on your part, you will only continue to get stronger.
Something to think about - fortune favors the brave.
Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...
29th and 30th March 1942
Interesting discussion gentlemen. I thought long and hard about the matter and eventually decided that I would try for a battle. Unfortunately on opening the turn, I found that it was impossible to move the Saratoga out of the shipyard, it is still yet to complete its March upgrade. With 11 days left to completion, the US fleet should be ready to sail by about the 10th April and hence to arrive at Hawaii by the 17th or so.
Strategy.
I view the game mainly about being able to keep the KB afloat as long as possible. As the allied player my goal is to sink the Japanese carriers for the lowest possible losses. I do not think that I will get a better chance to take on the KB until mid-1944, the improved Japan in this mod will receive three improved Shokakus instead of the Shinano and Taiho in 1943 and additionally, the A6M8, comparable in performance to the Hellcat becomes available in mid 1943. Nevertheless, Japan is now in a very difficult position; they need to keep the KB in position near Hawaii to stop Kona airfield being closed but by doing so they are removing their main offensive weapon and putting it at great risk. By apparently splitting up the carrier force to support an invasion of India he is putting it at even greater risk to support an attack that I believe will fail. The Indian army of May 1942 is many times more powerful than that which starts the game.
If I was playing Japan here then I would cancel the Indian Invasion and reunite the carrier fleet, but I don`t think that FatR will be able to stop attacking. There is another possibility that he has constructed this very situation to get the US fleet into battle at which point the mini KB suddenly appears, but I dont think that he is that sneaky.
Hawaii.
More Japanese destroyers enter Pearl Harbour sinking a PT boat. It is disappointing that none have yet hit a mine. A bomber attack on the 29th meets a CAP of 30 fighters mostly from the Japanese carriers. In heavy fighting, 6 B-17s are shot down (A2A and ops) for 2 Zeroes but a further 17 Zeroes are destroyed on the ground. I have collected nearly all of the B-17s available on the map, I should be able to get 50 into attack at the maximum, and they shall attack again on the 1st April, they should be able to close the airfield again.
I estimate that there are about 100 fighters left on the KB, if I could fight a carrier battle where 30 of them are providing LRCAP over Hilo, then there would be a chance to inflict a crushing blow; at this distance from port, any carrier taking three bomb hits would likely sink.
Additionally, there are two more cruiser fleets in the area. I want at least one of these to try to bombard Johnston Island with its valuable support ships in harbour.
On land, Hilo has built its forts back up to level 2, and I am trying to air transport in as many troops as possible. I was resigned to losing this base a few turns ago but it looks as though it has a chance of surviving.
DEI.
A Japanese submarine fires torpedoes at the BC Repulse and hits it, fortunately with a dud. He now has to know that the whole Royal Navy is at sea which I am not too unhappy about. Japanese units, presumably marching overland, take the first city on the overland railway route to Sabang. I think that I have just about enough troops to stop these units. The only sign of shipping at Singapore is a light cruiser fleet, according to my recon B-25s.
China.
A couple of corps are routed on the retreat from Pucheng but the main body of troops manages to flee. I should now be able to hold what I have left of China no matter how many IJA bombers are operating in theatre, most of the Chinese troops are now fortified in good defensive terrain.
India.
A huge number of reinforcements arrive on the 30th March, including a full Indian division, a small British division and three British Brigades. All of the British brigades are set to plan for their target, they shall be the front line troops when I make my first invasion, hopefully in early July.
Strategy.
I view the game mainly about being able to keep the KB afloat as long as possible. As the allied player my goal is to sink the Japanese carriers for the lowest possible losses. I do not think that I will get a better chance to take on the KB until mid-1944, the improved Japan in this mod will receive three improved Shokakus instead of the Shinano and Taiho in 1943 and additionally, the A6M8, comparable in performance to the Hellcat becomes available in mid 1943. Nevertheless, Japan is now in a very difficult position; they need to keep the KB in position near Hawaii to stop Kona airfield being closed but by doing so they are removing their main offensive weapon and putting it at great risk. By apparently splitting up the carrier force to support an invasion of India he is putting it at even greater risk to support an attack that I believe will fail. The Indian army of May 1942 is many times more powerful than that which starts the game.
If I was playing Japan here then I would cancel the Indian Invasion and reunite the carrier fleet, but I don`t think that FatR will be able to stop attacking. There is another possibility that he has constructed this very situation to get the US fleet into battle at which point the mini KB suddenly appears, but I dont think that he is that sneaky.
Hawaii.
More Japanese destroyers enter Pearl Harbour sinking a PT boat. It is disappointing that none have yet hit a mine. A bomber attack on the 29th meets a CAP of 30 fighters mostly from the Japanese carriers. In heavy fighting, 6 B-17s are shot down (A2A and ops) for 2 Zeroes but a further 17 Zeroes are destroyed on the ground. I have collected nearly all of the B-17s available on the map, I should be able to get 50 into attack at the maximum, and they shall attack again on the 1st April, they should be able to close the airfield again.
I estimate that there are about 100 fighters left on the KB, if I could fight a carrier battle where 30 of them are providing LRCAP over Hilo, then there would be a chance to inflict a crushing blow; at this distance from port, any carrier taking three bomb hits would likely sink.
Additionally, there are two more cruiser fleets in the area. I want at least one of these to try to bombard Johnston Island with its valuable support ships in harbour.
On land, Hilo has built its forts back up to level 2, and I am trying to air transport in as many troops as possible. I was resigned to losing this base a few turns ago but it looks as though it has a chance of surviving.
DEI.
A Japanese submarine fires torpedoes at the BC Repulse and hits it, fortunately with a dud. He now has to know that the whole Royal Navy is at sea which I am not too unhappy about. Japanese units, presumably marching overland, take the first city on the overland railway route to Sabang. I think that I have just about enough troops to stop these units. The only sign of shipping at Singapore is a light cruiser fleet, according to my recon B-25s.
China.
A couple of corps are routed on the retreat from Pucheng but the main body of troops manages to flee. I should now be able to hold what I have left of China no matter how many IJA bombers are operating in theatre, most of the Chinese troops are now fortified in good defensive terrain.
India.
A huge number of reinforcements arrive on the 30th March, including a full Indian division, a small British division and three British Brigades. All of the British brigades are set to plan for their target, they shall be the front line troops when I make my first invasion, hopefully in early July.
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topeverest
- Posts: 3380
- Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:47 am
- Location: Houston, TX - USA
31st March to 2nd April 1942
That sounds about right[:D]
Hawaii.
Three more action packed turns.
The Ise and Yamashiro bombard Hilo on the 31st and Japan tries a shock attack which takes the forts back down to level 1 but causes the Japanese 5 times the number of casualties, just over 3000. Before the attack, the Japanese have 990AV compared to the 277 of the allies. A Japanese attack on the 1st April suffers badly as well, getting to 1 to 2 odds, suffering more than four times the casualties and seeing over 100 Japanese squads destroyed.
In retaliation, the US launches a full scale aerial bombardment against the airfield at Kona and it is a complete disaster. Sweeping allied fighters meet a huge Zero CAP and are absolutely murdered, 37 allied planes are shot down for 1 (!) Zero. The following on bombers also suffer and 5 B-17s are shot down as well as a number of mediums.
On the 2nd April, I send the B-17s in at night and they perform fairly well, destroying around 8 fighters (including Oscars) and getting around 30 hits on the airfield. However, the Japanese manage to build the airfield up to level 3 on the same turn. As the airfield was completely flattened at size one just five turns ago, it is evident that the Japanes have a huge number of engineers there.
Also on the 2nd, 2 allied cruisers reach Johnston Island and bombard, putting shells into an AS and an AG, getting about 120 hits on the airfield and destroying 4 planes on the ground including 2 Emilys (arriving in early 1942 in this mod). I am not certain why these float planes were not able to detect my approaching task force.
Interestingly, it looks like the Japanese carriers are heading away from Hawaii, moving 8 hexes towards Johnston Island on the 2nd. Are they (and can they?) heading to Johnston for new planes or will they be heading towards India for the expected invasion? Finally, an engineer units is spotted by sigint to be preparing for Pearl Harbour.
China.
All of the Chinese units which had been retreating from Pucheng manage to make it safety, most of these units will move towards Changhsa. The Japanese are still launching large scale attacks on Chinese units but I don`t think they will be able to achieve much.
India.
The Japanese launch another sweep against Calcutta and the Oscars perform very well, 15 Hurricanes, 4 Fulmars and 3 Buffaloes are shot down for 12 Oscars. It is somewhat depressing to see some of the best allied planes still losing despite being over their own base, being fairly well trained, and despite the Oscars flying at extended range. The P-40s of the AVG are brought in to support the Hurricanes in the fight. If the Oscars can beat these units, then I shall be forced to retreat from Calcutta, the Hurricane pool is close to running out.
DEI.
The Japanese are landing at Bandjermarsin, Dutch bombers are ordered to attack With only 20 AV against the defending 40 Dutch AV, a deliberate attack fails on the 1st
On Sumatra, Dutch B-25s launch a ground attack against the advancing Japanese troops. I also have a P-40 squadron in theatre. The Japanese retaliate launching a bombing attack on Medan and nearly close the airfield. The Royal Navy is waiting just west of Sabang to attack any invasion forces.
North Pacific.
This theatre has been very quiet for the past 6 weeks but I am still bringing in the occasional new unit, mostly construction units. However, a Japanese unit was spotted to be preparing for Adak Island last turn. Being divided into fragments, it looks like it is already on a ship. I send a task force of 2 cruisers to try to attack it but it will likely arrive too late to get involved.
Scores
The end of the month and so let us take a look at the score board so far. Note the large number of points for Allied casualties, a lot of which are Chinese troops and the huge number of Japanese plane losses, more than half of those which start the game.
Hawaii.
Three more action packed turns.
The Ise and Yamashiro bombard Hilo on the 31st and Japan tries a shock attack which takes the forts back down to level 1 but causes the Japanese 5 times the number of casualties, just over 3000. Before the attack, the Japanese have 990AV compared to the 277 of the allies. A Japanese attack on the 1st April suffers badly as well, getting to 1 to 2 odds, suffering more than four times the casualties and seeing over 100 Japanese squads destroyed.
In retaliation, the US launches a full scale aerial bombardment against the airfield at Kona and it is a complete disaster. Sweeping allied fighters meet a huge Zero CAP and are absolutely murdered, 37 allied planes are shot down for 1 (!) Zero. The following on bombers also suffer and 5 B-17s are shot down as well as a number of mediums.
On the 2nd April, I send the B-17s in at night and they perform fairly well, destroying around 8 fighters (including Oscars) and getting around 30 hits on the airfield. However, the Japanese manage to build the airfield up to level 3 on the same turn. As the airfield was completely flattened at size one just five turns ago, it is evident that the Japanes have a huge number of engineers there.
Also on the 2nd, 2 allied cruisers reach Johnston Island and bombard, putting shells into an AS and an AG, getting about 120 hits on the airfield and destroying 4 planes on the ground including 2 Emilys (arriving in early 1942 in this mod). I am not certain why these float planes were not able to detect my approaching task force.
Interestingly, it looks like the Japanese carriers are heading away from Hawaii, moving 8 hexes towards Johnston Island on the 2nd. Are they (and can they?) heading to Johnston for new planes or will they be heading towards India for the expected invasion? Finally, an engineer units is spotted by sigint to be preparing for Pearl Harbour.
China.
All of the Chinese units which had been retreating from Pucheng manage to make it safety, most of these units will move towards Changhsa. The Japanese are still launching large scale attacks on Chinese units but I don`t think they will be able to achieve much.
India.
The Japanese launch another sweep against Calcutta and the Oscars perform very well, 15 Hurricanes, 4 Fulmars and 3 Buffaloes are shot down for 12 Oscars. It is somewhat depressing to see some of the best allied planes still losing despite being over their own base, being fairly well trained, and despite the Oscars flying at extended range. The P-40s of the AVG are brought in to support the Hurricanes in the fight. If the Oscars can beat these units, then I shall be forced to retreat from Calcutta, the Hurricane pool is close to running out.
DEI.
The Japanese are landing at Bandjermarsin, Dutch bombers are ordered to attack With only 20 AV against the defending 40 Dutch AV, a deliberate attack fails on the 1st
On Sumatra, Dutch B-25s launch a ground attack against the advancing Japanese troops. I also have a P-40 squadron in theatre. The Japanese retaliate launching a bombing attack on Medan and nearly close the airfield. The Royal Navy is waiting just west of Sabang to attack any invasion forces.
North Pacific.
This theatre has been very quiet for the past 6 weeks but I am still bringing in the occasional new unit, mostly construction units. However, a Japanese unit was spotted to be preparing for Adak Island last turn. Being divided into fragments, it looks like it is already on a ship. I send a task force of 2 cruisers to try to attack it but it will likely arrive too late to get involved.
Scores
The end of the month and so let us take a look at the score board so far. Note the large number of points for Allied casualties, a lot of which are Chinese troops and the huge number of Japanese plane losses, more than half of those which start the game.
- Attachments
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topeverest
- Posts: 3380
- Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:47 am
- Location: Houston, TX - USA
RE: 31st March to 2nd April 1942
Roosevelt would be pleased. Perhaps he is leaving, but I wouldnt bet on it. He just made a maximum effort assault, and you went after his supply line again. He probably is hoping to catch your retreating forces.
I see no need to use aircraft to knock down Empire base in Hawaii. Because it is operational after all you have done, it is clear that he must have brought huge numbers of engineers. You will not succeed by throwing away your aircraft. My primary thoughts are as follows: get AA whereever he can attack by air, and up the ante with rapid succession BB and then CA bombardments from Pearl - bring DMS escorts if you think huge numbers of mines are present, which is not likely. Use your fighters in Defense of PH. It is worth a thought to offload three - five CV carrier loads and send them in one massive raid from PH without the risk to the ships. Pulse every fighter in at that moment when it looks good, and pulse bombardments too. PH is a lvl 10 base, you can launch up to 800? planes in a day. Why not do it?
I wont start a fire by restating my reccommendation on toe-to toe CV combat.
I see no need to use aircraft to knock down Empire base in Hawaii. Because it is operational after all you have done, it is clear that he must have brought huge numbers of engineers. You will not succeed by throwing away your aircraft. My primary thoughts are as follows: get AA whereever he can attack by air, and up the ante with rapid succession BB and then CA bombardments from Pearl - bring DMS escorts if you think huge numbers of mines are present, which is not likely. Use your fighters in Defense of PH. It is worth a thought to offload three - five CV carrier loads and send them in one massive raid from PH without the risk to the ships. Pulse every fighter in at that moment when it looks good, and pulse bombardments too. PH is a lvl 10 base, you can launch up to 800? planes in a day. Why not do it?
I wont start a fire by restating my reccommendation on toe-to toe CV combat.
Andy M
RE: 31st March to 2nd April 1942
You know, that's not a bad idea - PH is an unsinkable aircraft carrier. It could make any further reinforcement or stay by the KB very, very expensive.
Now you just need to be able to bring in additional troops and supplies (plus don't lose out on any other opportunities to make pinprick raids on the other side of the map as well)./
Now you just need to be able to bring in additional troops and supplies (plus don't lose out on any other opportunities to make pinprick raids on the other side of the map as well)./
Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...
3rd April 1942
Exactly right, topeverest, I shall try to use the US navy in the Hawaii battle from now on with the majority of the Japanese navy out of the way.
I had someone try to use US navy planes from a land base against and they suffered from terrible co-ordination, like 50 SBDs attacking unescorted. It is something to think about anyway, certainly if I can do sufficient damage to Kona.
Hawaii.
The B-17s attack at night again and manage to shoot down 4 intercepting Zeroes for no loss. Bombing destroys a further 12 or so fighters on the ground. In the morning, a squadron of Oscars sweeps Pearl Harbour and comes off very much second best. 11 are reported to be shot down and a further 7 show up as ops losses compared to 9 allied fighters. That makes a total of more than 30 Japanese fighters destroyed today alone.
There is no sign of the KB at all, I guess that it is moving towards Johnston Island. The US cruiser group that attacked at Johnston Island manages to reach safety at Pearl Harbour. FatR hasn't tried an attack against the port at Pearl Harbour yet, possibly fearing the flak there. It appears that it will be safe to use it as a base to launch naval bombardments against Kona. The Japanese look to have 2 cruiser task forces based at Kona permanently.
In two turns time, 2 New Zealand cruisers will try to attack at Midway.
China.
Aside from hundreds of Japanese bombers attacking daily, this theatre has become quiet in the last week.
India.
Troops from Burma corps are beginning to arrive in India. The batallions will be sent to rear bases to guard against paratroop attacks and the larger units will train and prepare for their future targets.
DEI.
Japanese units are spotted heading along the Singapore strait. The Royal Navy is so far unspotted and is set to move just north of Sabang next turn to try to attack.
The Japanese 40th Brigade crosses the river at Balikpapan launching a shock attack that fails to take down the forts. No further attacks at Malang, level 3 forts will be built in 3 turns if there are no airfield attacks in the meantime.
Mistake.
60 turns ago, I set a P-40 unit on the Philippines to withdraw. Today it came back at San Francisco and replenished with 25 new P-40Es. Since it is a fixed command 撤・unit due to withdraw at the start of June, I cannot move the unit or withdraw the planes and hence I have just lost nearly a months production of P-40s. Note to self, never withdraw planes with reinforcements allowed.
I had someone try to use US navy planes from a land base against and they suffered from terrible co-ordination, like 50 SBDs attacking unescorted. It is something to think about anyway, certainly if I can do sufficient damage to Kona.
Hawaii.
The B-17s attack at night again and manage to shoot down 4 intercepting Zeroes for no loss. Bombing destroys a further 12 or so fighters on the ground. In the morning, a squadron of Oscars sweeps Pearl Harbour and comes off very much second best. 11 are reported to be shot down and a further 7 show up as ops losses compared to 9 allied fighters. That makes a total of more than 30 Japanese fighters destroyed today alone.
There is no sign of the KB at all, I guess that it is moving towards Johnston Island. The US cruiser group that attacked at Johnston Island manages to reach safety at Pearl Harbour. FatR hasn't tried an attack against the port at Pearl Harbour yet, possibly fearing the flak there. It appears that it will be safe to use it as a base to launch naval bombardments against Kona. The Japanese look to have 2 cruiser task forces based at Kona permanently.
In two turns time, 2 New Zealand cruisers will try to attack at Midway.
China.
Aside from hundreds of Japanese bombers attacking daily, this theatre has become quiet in the last week.
India.
Troops from Burma corps are beginning to arrive in India. The batallions will be sent to rear bases to guard against paratroop attacks and the larger units will train and prepare for their future targets.
DEI.
Japanese units are spotted heading along the Singapore strait. The Royal Navy is so far unspotted and is set to move just north of Sabang next turn to try to attack.
The Japanese 40th Brigade crosses the river at Balikpapan launching a shock attack that fails to take down the forts. No further attacks at Malang, level 3 forts will be built in 3 turns if there are no airfield attacks in the meantime.
Mistake.
60 turns ago, I set a P-40 unit on the Philippines to withdraw. Today it came back at San Francisco and replenished with 25 new P-40Es. Since it is a fixed command 撤・unit due to withdraw at the start of June, I cannot move the unit or withdraw the planes and hence I have just lost nearly a months production of P-40s. Note to self, never withdraw planes with reinforcements allowed.
4th April 1942
Hawaii.
A really tremendous turn for the allies as SS Tuna manages to torpedo the Akagi! A second hit is also scored but this is unfortunately a dud. The replay shows belt armour penetration and an explosion but there is no damaged shown in the combat log, my guess is about 20 points of system damage and a few flooding points of damage have been done. The Tuna locates presumably the whole of the rest of the KB along with the Akagi, three hexes eastwards of Johnston Island.
The B-17s attack at night and destroy another 10 or so Zeroes on the ground but Kona airfield still manages to get to level 4. FatR seems unhappy with this amount of destruction, and it is impossible to stop, so I will limit the night bombing attacks to every three days from now on.
At Midway, the two New Zealand cruisers will attack tonight, recon has not spotted any ships there but I might be lucky. The USN battleline will be putting to sea tomorrow, I have four US battleships plus the Warspite. I will be looking to bombard Kona and possibly fight a carrier battle near Pearl Harbour in around two weeks time.
DEI.
The Royal Navy sails to one hex east of Sabang and is still unspotted, this is either an extremely cunning way to get me to sacrifice the Royal Navy or very poor recon on FatR`s part.
There is a large Japanese transport fleet at the southernmost Dutch railway base on the Straits of Malacca (I forget it`s name), apparently being guarded by a surface fleet including one battleship, possibly the Yamato. The Prince of Wales and the Repulse will attack tomorrow and the three British carriers will be 5 hexes away in the daytime.
I hope that this move catches FatR completely by surprise, if there are lots of Betties in the region then tomorrow could be a complete disaster. I have no sightings of the mini KB, my best guess is that it is around Badelbaob.
China.
It looks like Japan is now moving to clear out the Wuchow area. With 1500AV in Rough wooded terrain, I hope that they can hold out, at least against the small Japanese army that has been operating in the south.
India.
More British brigades are arriving in theatre at Karachi and fortifications are being built up along the coast, I think that India and Ceylon are safe by now.
Australia.
Australian troops are now approaching Cooktown and are a couple of weeks away from Coen. I want to build up these bases so I can start putting pressure on Horn Island and Port Moresby.
A really tremendous turn for the allies as SS Tuna manages to torpedo the Akagi! A second hit is also scored but this is unfortunately a dud. The replay shows belt armour penetration and an explosion but there is no damaged shown in the combat log, my guess is about 20 points of system damage and a few flooding points of damage have been done. The Tuna locates presumably the whole of the rest of the KB along with the Akagi, three hexes eastwards of Johnston Island.
The B-17s attack at night and destroy another 10 or so Zeroes on the ground but Kona airfield still manages to get to level 4. FatR seems unhappy with this amount of destruction, and it is impossible to stop, so I will limit the night bombing attacks to every three days from now on.
At Midway, the two New Zealand cruisers will attack tonight, recon has not spotted any ships there but I might be lucky. The USN battleline will be putting to sea tomorrow, I have four US battleships plus the Warspite. I will be looking to bombard Kona and possibly fight a carrier battle near Pearl Harbour in around two weeks time.
DEI.
The Royal Navy sails to one hex east of Sabang and is still unspotted, this is either an extremely cunning way to get me to sacrifice the Royal Navy or very poor recon on FatR`s part.
There is a large Japanese transport fleet at the southernmost Dutch railway base on the Straits of Malacca (I forget it`s name), apparently being guarded by a surface fleet including one battleship, possibly the Yamato. The Prince of Wales and the Repulse will attack tomorrow and the three British carriers will be 5 hexes away in the daytime.
I hope that this move catches FatR completely by surprise, if there are lots of Betties in the region then tomorrow could be a complete disaster. I have no sightings of the mini KB, my best guess is that it is around Badelbaob.
China.
It looks like Japan is now moving to clear out the Wuchow area. With 1500AV in Rough wooded terrain, I hope that they can hold out, at least against the small Japanese army that has been operating in the south.
India.
More British brigades are arriving in theatre at Karachi and fortifications are being built up along the coast, I think that India and Ceylon are safe by now.
Australia.
Australian troops are now approaching Cooktown and are a couple of weeks away from Coen. I want to build up these bases so I can start putting pressure on Horn Island and Port Moresby.
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RE: 4th April 1942
ORIGINAL: yubari
Hawaii.
The B-17s attack at night and destroy another 10 or so Zeroes on the ground but Kona airfield still manages to get to level 4. FatR seems unhappy with this amount of destruction, and it is impossible to stop, so I will limit the night bombing attacks to every three days from now on.
Why[&:]
- He can switch some fighters to night CAP
- It isn't your fault he mismanaged his invasion with the result your main airbase at Pearl was left largely untouched and thereby able to launch B-17s
- He should know how difficult it is to stop any B-17 raid directly - they are best stopped indirectly with flak, damaging airbase, interdicting supply lines, operational losses (and service rating impact)
RE: 4th April 1942
ORIGINAL: yubari
Hawaii.
A really tremendous turn for the allies as SS Tuna manages to torpedo the Akagi! A second hit is also scored but this is unfortunately a dud. The replay shows belt armour penetration and an explosion but there is no damaged shown in the combat log, my guess is about 20 points of system damage and a few flooding points of damage have been done. The Tuna locates presumably the whole of the rest of the KB along with the Akagi, three hexes eastwards of Johnston Island.
The B-17s attack at night and destroy another 10 or so Zeroes on the ground but Kona airfield still manages to get to level 4. FatR seems unhappy with this amount of destruction, and it is impossible to stop, so I will limit the night bombing attacks to every three days from now on.
At Midway, the two New Zealand cruisers will attack tonight, recon has not spotted any ships there but I might be lucky. The USN battleline will be putting to sea tomorrow, I have four US battleships plus the Warspite. I will be looking to bombard Kona and possibly fight a carrier battle near Pearl Harbour in around two weeks time.
DEI.
The Royal Navy sails to one hex east of Sabang and is still unspotted, this is either an extremely cunning way to get me to sacrifice the Royal Navy or very poor recon on FatR`s part.
There is a large Japanese transport fleet at the southernmost Dutch railway base on the Straits of Malacca (I forget it`s name), apparently being guarded by a surface fleet including one battleship, possibly the Yamato. The Prince of Wales and the Repulse will attack tomorrow and the three British carriers will be 5 hexes away in the daytime.
I hope that this move catches FatR completely by surprise, if there are lots of Betties in the region then tomorrow could be a complete disaster. I have no sightings of the mini KB, my best guess is that it is around Badelbaob.
China.
It looks like Japan is now moving to clear out the Wuchow area. With 1500AV in Rough wooded terrain, I hope that they can hold out, at least against the small Japanese army that has been operating in the south.
India.
More British brigades are arriving in theatre at Karachi and fortifications are being built up along the coast, I think that India and Ceylon are safe by now.
Australia.
Australian troops are now approaching Cooktown and are a couple of weeks away from Coen. I want to build up these bases so I can start putting pressure on Horn Island and Port Moresby.
WHOA, WHOA, WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let me get this right. Your opponent makes the ridiculously aggressive move of trying to invade the HI and is now complaining that he is suffering from the massive air power based there?????
Personally I would tell him to stick it!. You are already playing a Enhanced Japan mod. He made his bed, make him lay in it. Seriously: if you cave here on this point, you are not only doing a disservice to yourself but to all Allied players. This game allows the Japan player to do incredible things that are beyond the scope of what Japan was truly capable of doing. I applaud Fat R for his aggressive play style but he needs to be shown that aggressive play has consequences. Don't just sit back and absorb this as if it is some how preordained that the Allied player has to take what is handed to him with a smile at this point in the war
"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry
RE: 4th April 1942
+1 what vettim89 just said.
Alfred
Alfred
RE: 4th April 1942
Although Vettim has a good argument, I can see the other side of the issue as well. It's not like FatR is asking to act like PH is a lvl 4 field. Night bombing does seem a little strong, so a consistent night bombing campaign might be a bit gamey.
The AE-Wiki, help fill it out
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krupp_88mm
- Posts: 406
- Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:01 am
RE: 4th April 1942
B-17's durability rating is to high, not by much just a little bit it should have 2-3 points shaved off, and yes night bombings are toooo accurate, the brits night bombing most bombs were 10 miles off target, it was so bad the only target they could attack was a large city.. an airfield? almost impossible, it mainly would just keep the pilots awake and add a little stress to them
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topeverest
- Posts: 3380
- Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:47 am
- Location: Houston, TX - USA
RE: 4th April 1942
I tend to agree that such complaints by the other side, if not pure psch warfare, are both a sign of impending empire doom or abandonment as well as a statement on his thoughts as to winnability. I also agree asking for such forbearance is inappropriate. What you are doing is working. keep it up. By backing off, you are giving the enemy a free chance to turn the tide and potentially deal a lethal blow to you.
Andy M
5th April 1942
Thankyou for the comments everyone. I have to agree with you topeverest, the sudden slowing down of turns and these complaints do suggest to me that this game might not continue too much longer. Hopefully that will not be the case. I have only seen the replay for the 5th April turn but here are the email comments.
Here are the words from FatR from the previous turn, I don't think it is fair to call it a complaint
"Also, I don't know what to do with your night bombing. Night interception seems to be worse than ineffective against 4Es at the point. If losses don't drop now, when I have no overstack, this is just a Win button for Allies."
Here is what came back with this replay.
"Thanks for your courtesy with night bombing. I'll withhold from sweeping undefended outlying bases to bag CAP leakers in return."
Here is what I sent back, I have yet to receive the turn file.
"I mentioned your comment on my AAR and I had a couple of replies, here is one from Vettim89 (I sent a screen of post 72 from Vettim). I am afraid that I cannot simply stop bombing at night just because you don't like it. That said I do agree that it is somewhat overpowered in the number of planes destroyed and so we could try to discuss house rules. We are already playing a mod which gives massive advantages to the Japanese.
Please feel free to continue sweeping trying to catch leaking CAP if you want to. If you continue to do it then I shall do it as well and it will make it very easy for my Thunderbolts to destroy your airforce later on. I view this to be a super gamey tactic and hope that this doesn't happen."
I have to admit that the comment that came with the last replay made me a bit angry.
Personally I think that the night bombing is too effective, or at least has been so far in this mini-campaign. As other posters have said, night bombers had trouble hitting the right city at this point in the war. When the Zeroes have tried to intercept at night, they have barely managed to get a shot in and have lost about 8 planes to the B-17s.
Personally I find this game far more interesting in trying to outwit your opponent than the actual winning of the game and the crushing of the opponents forces, I do not really want to use a tactic that seems overpowered or unfair. This has probably also shown itself in my somewhat moderated defence of Hawaii so far; rather than bring the sledgehammer in, I have tried to keep the Japanese in (or out) of position as long as possible.
Equally as Vettim has said, this game, and particularly this mod gives Japan greater strength than historically and FatR has admitted that the base was overstacked. I shall try another night attack tomorrow against the base when it is not overstacked and see what happens.
Instead of attacking at Kona, my bombers hit the troops at Hilo today. I have noticed that FatR very often waits 5 turns between launching ground attacks at the same target and so I wanted to try to hit the ground troops on the same day of his attack.
DEI.
The main action for the day happened along Sumatra. In an exceptionally violent surface combat at Loemadjang, the Prince of Wales and Repulse encountered a large Japanese task force unloading at Loemadjang and massacred it. 8 xAKs are sunk along with a PB and a DD, and a TB is left with heavy fires and heavy damage, another almost certain sinking. The one xAK that survives is then torpedoed three times by a Dutch submarine and sinks.
In the daytime, Albacores from the Royal Navy carriers find themselves just two hexes away from a Japanese cruiser task force and attack, 2 torpedoes are scored against CL Kuma and 3 against CL Yura, both of them should sink.
This marks a stunning victory for the Royal Navy. In anticipation of huge numbers of Bettys attacking tomorrow, I shall retreat at full speed. This was really poor recon by FatR; my ships weren't spotted at all until today, and even then, only one Nell saw them.
Hawaii.
The CLs Achilles and Leander with one destroyer escorting reach Midway and encounter a small task force. The two PBs and two xAKLs are very quickly sunk and the cruisers escape cleanly.
On Hawaii, my bombers attack the Japanese ground troops at Hilo, expecting the Japanese to try a deliberate attack. In the event there is no Japanese attack and US engineers manage to rebuild the fortifications to level 2, I think that Hilo should be safe from here on, unless FatR reunites the KB and brings in another couple of divisions.
Over Lihue, an Oscar squadron sweeps and manages to destroy a P-40B which leaks from Pearl Harbour. Finally, an Infantry Regiment is spotted planning for Pearl Harbour. This would surely be suicide, level 5 forts were reached last turn.
Here are the words from FatR from the previous turn, I don't think it is fair to call it a complaint
"Also, I don't know what to do with your night bombing. Night interception seems to be worse than ineffective against 4Es at the point. If losses don't drop now, when I have no overstack, this is just a Win button for Allies."
Here is what came back with this replay.
"Thanks for your courtesy with night bombing. I'll withhold from sweeping undefended outlying bases to bag CAP leakers in return."
Here is what I sent back, I have yet to receive the turn file.
"I mentioned your comment on my AAR and I had a couple of replies, here is one from Vettim89 (I sent a screen of post 72 from Vettim). I am afraid that I cannot simply stop bombing at night just because you don't like it. That said I do agree that it is somewhat overpowered in the number of planes destroyed and so we could try to discuss house rules. We are already playing a mod which gives massive advantages to the Japanese.
Please feel free to continue sweeping trying to catch leaking CAP if you want to. If you continue to do it then I shall do it as well and it will make it very easy for my Thunderbolts to destroy your airforce later on. I view this to be a super gamey tactic and hope that this doesn't happen."
I have to admit that the comment that came with the last replay made me a bit angry.
Personally I think that the night bombing is too effective, or at least has been so far in this mini-campaign. As other posters have said, night bombers had trouble hitting the right city at this point in the war. When the Zeroes have tried to intercept at night, they have barely managed to get a shot in and have lost about 8 planes to the B-17s.
Personally I find this game far more interesting in trying to outwit your opponent than the actual winning of the game and the crushing of the opponents forces, I do not really want to use a tactic that seems overpowered or unfair. This has probably also shown itself in my somewhat moderated defence of Hawaii so far; rather than bring the sledgehammer in, I have tried to keep the Japanese in (or out) of position as long as possible.
Equally as Vettim has said, this game, and particularly this mod gives Japan greater strength than historically and FatR has admitted that the base was overstacked. I shall try another night attack tomorrow against the base when it is not overstacked and see what happens.
Instead of attacking at Kona, my bombers hit the troops at Hilo today. I have noticed that FatR very often waits 5 turns between launching ground attacks at the same target and so I wanted to try to hit the ground troops on the same day of his attack.
DEI.
The main action for the day happened along Sumatra. In an exceptionally violent surface combat at Loemadjang, the Prince of Wales and Repulse encountered a large Japanese task force unloading at Loemadjang and massacred it. 8 xAKs are sunk along with a PB and a DD, and a TB is left with heavy fires and heavy damage, another almost certain sinking. The one xAK that survives is then torpedoed three times by a Dutch submarine and sinks.
In the daytime, Albacores from the Royal Navy carriers find themselves just two hexes away from a Japanese cruiser task force and attack, 2 torpedoes are scored against CL Kuma and 3 against CL Yura, both of them should sink.
This marks a stunning victory for the Royal Navy. In anticipation of huge numbers of Bettys attacking tomorrow, I shall retreat at full speed. This was really poor recon by FatR; my ships weren't spotted at all until today, and even then, only one Nell saw them.
Hawaii.
The CLs Achilles and Leander with one destroyer escorting reach Midway and encounter a small task force. The two PBs and two xAKLs are very quickly sunk and the cruisers escape cleanly.
On Hawaii, my bombers attack the Japanese ground troops at Hilo, expecting the Japanese to try a deliberate attack. In the event there is no Japanese attack and US engineers manage to rebuild the fortifications to level 2, I think that Hilo should be safe from here on, unless FatR reunites the KB and brings in another couple of divisions.
Over Lihue, an Oscar squadron sweeps and manages to destroy a P-40B which leaks from Pearl Harbour. Finally, an Infantry Regiment is spotted planning for Pearl Harbour. This would surely be suicide, level 5 forts were reached last turn.
RE: 5th April 1942
In a little more rational vein: while it may be true that night bombing is too effective, it is just one of many distortions the game has in it. If it is the position of your opponent that parts of the game that are distorted should be avoided then there should be no SCTF bombarding airfields, no shock attacks, no PDU, subs should be required to sit in port for a month after returning from patrol, the entire SWEEP mission should be illegal, etc. Point being that while AE is a great game, there are flaws. We play the game that was given us flaws and all.
As to the not being able to hit targets at night using Bomber Command as the yarstick: I bet they would have done a lot better if they were attacking the air base at Dover after a successful Sea Lion operation by the Germans. Hilo is what 250 NM from Oahu? The USAAC would A. be very familiar with the geography of the area, B. have excellant maps which was often a limiter in WWII, and C. be highly motivated.
As to the not being able to hit targets at night using Bomber Command as the yarstick: I bet they would have done a lot better if they were attacking the air base at Dover after a successful Sea Lion operation by the Germans. Hilo is what 250 NM from Oahu? The USAAC would A. be very familiar with the geography of the area, B. have excellant maps which was often a limiter in WWII, and C. be highly motivated.
"We have met the enemy and they are ours" - Commodore O.H. Perry
RE: 5th April 1942
Again +1 what vettim89 just said.
This game was started with the intention of minimal HRs. In that context, new HRs should only be introduced to cover those situations where there is no riposte available. The situation with (a) the difficulty of countering B-17s, and (b) night bombing operations being perhaps too powerful/difficult to intercept without dedicated night fighters, is well known. In both cases there are counter measures available, hence no new HR is warranted in a game which commenced with the express intention of having minimal HRs.
Whilst I don't think it is your opponent's intention, nonetheless the impression is of resorting to handicapping you to cover for his mistakes. There are countermeasures available to your opponent. Nothing stops him from launching night raids against Pearl if he feels it is too well guarded during daylight hours, to name just one counter measure.
Taken to its logical extent, will your opponent also object to the historical use of Wellingtons on night bombing missions? They have a decent payload and are so used by Andy Mac in his AAR. Will he not engage in using Japanese bombers on night bombing as they were used historically?
Also why did he conduct sweeps on undefended outlaying bases to catch leaking CAP and only after he sought to stop the night B-17s did he offer to desist? IMHO that would not be a fair swap anyway, heavily favouring the Japanese side (exchanging the odd downed Allied fighter in return for neutering the far greater damage inflicted by B-17s and allowing more focused use of Japanese fighters). He should be allowed to conduct such sweeps if he feels they are worthwhile, and you should be allowed to conduct night bombing.
Alfred
This game was started with the intention of minimal HRs. In that context, new HRs should only be introduced to cover those situations where there is no riposte available. The situation with (a) the difficulty of countering B-17s, and (b) night bombing operations being perhaps too powerful/difficult to intercept without dedicated night fighters, is well known. In both cases there are counter measures available, hence no new HR is warranted in a game which commenced with the express intention of having minimal HRs.
Whilst I don't think it is your opponent's intention, nonetheless the impression is of resorting to handicapping you to cover for his mistakes. There are countermeasures available to your opponent. Nothing stops him from launching night raids against Pearl if he feels it is too well guarded during daylight hours, to name just one counter measure.
Taken to its logical extent, will your opponent also object to the historical use of Wellingtons on night bombing missions? They have a decent payload and are so used by Andy Mac in his AAR. Will he not engage in using Japanese bombers on night bombing as they were used historically?
Also why did he conduct sweeps on undefended outlaying bases to catch leaking CAP and only after he sought to stop the night B-17s did he offer to desist? IMHO that would not be a fair swap anyway, heavily favouring the Japanese side (exchanging the odd downed Allied fighter in return for neutering the far greater damage inflicted by B-17s and allowing more focused use of Japanese fighters). He should be allowed to conduct such sweeps if he feels they are worthwhile, and you should be allowed to conduct night bombing.
Alfred
RE: 5th April 1942
Yes there are flaws in the game, but all not all flaws are created equal. Both sides can shock. Both sides can SCTF bombard. PDU is definately a Japanese advantage but can be shut off. However, B-17s can't be stopped by anyone or anything. The "counter-meausres" that you talk about is true, striking at the B-17 airbases, but that's barely a work around and in some cases, it's suicidal to the japanese, especially with the altitude rules slaughtering escorts. More importantly, its not something the allies are forced to do against the japanese. So this "flaw" completely alters japansese strategy without forcing the allies to do anything different. This "flaw" is a bug and should not be exploited.