The russians could have try but doing so they would have lost their entrenchment value. I have not play the soviet enough but when I will, I will try to be agressive. Now here, I think that they would have not succeed. They are withdrawing...
About my tactical knowledge...nothing much to explain. Those three lines of defenders were weak. The only thing I try to apply is "concentrate your attack" and with the cards you can do great stuff.
Case Blue: Olivier(Axis) vs Keunert(soviets), no Keunert
Moderator: Vic
RE: Great
20 July.
The rest of the front is calm except on the way to Stalingrad
I just read an email from Keunert. He is about to be dismiss of his command. I won't be abble to see my troops in Rostov [:@]
But I have now the right to read Keunert's AAR. A great read for this evening. We will share after that our thoughts about this very first game. Keunert told me and I agree with him that he played the soviets like in DC1 or there seems to have a lot ot do to improve the soviet defense with the cards and the pps, even with the replacement system. Keunert discover that too late...For my part I have played "very quickly" and I know that the axis player can do much more to improve the first three weeks of offensive. But you need to be lucky like me, having the first 6 turns with a good weather.
The rest of the front is calm except on the way to Stalingrad
I just read an email from Keunert. He is about to be dismiss of his command. I won't be abble to see my troops in Rostov [:@]
But I have now the right to read Keunert's AAR. A great read for this evening. We will share after that our thoughts about this very first game. Keunert told me and I agree with him that he played the soviets like in DC1 or there seems to have a lot ot do to improve the soviet defense with the cards and the pps, even with the replacement system. Keunert discover that too late...For my part I have played "very quickly" and I know that the axis player can do much more to improve the first three weeks of offensive. But you need to be lucky like me, having the first 6 turns with a good weather.
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RE: Great
Olivier, great aar, very nice to read! i have to say you played brilliantly. very good use of cards, very concentrated attacks. opening your turns was always a nerve shattering experience. the turn replays were depressing to watch: your units cut through my lines with ease and once you pushed me out of my initial positions you rolled over russia without any noteworthy casualties.
i am not sure if the situation would look that much different if i had played better. after your very good first turn parts of my front had to pull back. in the center i did this as fast as possible. maybe playing a fortress card would have slowed you a little, but i guess not too much. the good use of the cards: i think you set a new standart here: the axis is strong enough as it is, but with the cards they are really frightening.
you were surprised not to see a second line at Voronezh: i will check this. but your forces felt that overwhelming that i never felt like i could spare a single unit. if you would have been able to do another pocket the soviets had been toast. i felt the need to have a defence deep enough so that a single infantry attack wasn't enough to open the line. this showed limited success at the cost of fast pulling back, low entrenchment and low readiness.
if you check my last post you will see that the last turns brought a lot of soviet reinforcements. that was the moment when i finally was able to set up a second line in some places. but with underwhelming aa, at and artillery support i am sceptical how long those would have hold. maybe one round of attacks.
thank you it was really great entertainment of the titanic sort, minus the hot babe of course. and i look not like Di Caprio.
i am not sure if the situation would look that much different if i had played better. after your very good first turn parts of my front had to pull back. in the center i did this as fast as possible. maybe playing a fortress card would have slowed you a little, but i guess not too much. the good use of the cards: i think you set a new standart here: the axis is strong enough as it is, but with the cards they are really frightening.
you were surprised not to see a second line at Voronezh: i will check this. but your forces felt that overwhelming that i never felt like i could spare a single unit. if you would have been able to do another pocket the soviets had been toast. i felt the need to have a defence deep enough so that a single infantry attack wasn't enough to open the line. this showed limited success at the cost of fast pulling back, low entrenchment and low readiness.
if you check my last post you will see that the last turns brought a lot of soviet reinforcements. that was the moment when i finally was able to set up a second line in some places. but with underwhelming aa, at and artillery support i am sceptical how long those would have hold. maybe one round of attacks.
thank you it was really great entertainment of the titanic sort, minus the hot babe of course. and i look not like Di Caprio.
RE: Great
I have got one more turn to play ![:)] Let's gamble a bit on the Rostov Front.
I have read Keunert AAR (Was fun [:D]) and I absolutly agree with him that he just went into this game without knowing all the new potentiel of this DC2 compare to DC1 to optimise the defensive side (Officer pool, cards, replacements...). I am sure that the first turns would be very different if we start over now.
For my part, I played the axis like I did in DC1 and discover those new cards and how powerful they are. And I think that there is much more to discover on the axis side as well.
In DC1 I had to check carefuly the supply of my troops and taking a bridge was often decisive. For the first three weeks, I had not such a problem and only a few bridges were destroy.(?). The only part of the map were it is hard to get enough supply is north east of Rostov. You can't turn the city without taking the rail line up north...but I have visited a small part of the map.
Regarding the dismissal rule, I like it but I never thought that Keunert could be dismiss just losing Voronezh. I really thought that he could be in danger only if he had lost Rostov too. (And I red that he used some prestige points to get pps...)
I won some prestige points and I could have use them to get extra pps...this is something that I don't like in this rule. If a side do very well, he will get stronger !
The map is huge and we had finish only the first act of this scenario. I think that the soviet can recover from a very bad situation like we have seen here. The axis has so much to do and I had lost a lot of tanks (Maybe I have use them to much in attack...)
I like a lot the implement of the stock piles for Artillery. I have fire my arty only when they were at full.
Oil : Not a problem but I had use half of my stock. My idea was to march toward Stalingrad, move maybe some panzers by train. The front of Rostov would have been the only one active. I would have wait to have my oil reserve at full before launching another operation. I hope in this game that the axis player will have to do that. You plan an operation but first you concentrate the troops, the arty. You wait until your reserve of oil is maximum and that your officers have plenty of command points (enough to play cards for three or four turns in a row)
I have read Keunert AAR (Was fun [:D]) and I absolutly agree with him that he just went into this game without knowing all the new potentiel of this DC2 compare to DC1 to optimise the defensive side (Officer pool, cards, replacements...). I am sure that the first turns would be very different if we start over now.
For my part, I played the axis like I did in DC1 and discover those new cards and how powerful they are. And I think that there is much more to discover on the axis side as well.
In DC1 I had to check carefuly the supply of my troops and taking a bridge was often decisive. For the first three weeks, I had not such a problem and only a few bridges were destroy.(?). The only part of the map were it is hard to get enough supply is north east of Rostov. You can't turn the city without taking the rail line up north...but I have visited a small part of the map.
Regarding the dismissal rule, I like it but I never thought that Keunert could be dismiss just losing Voronezh. I really thought that he could be in danger only if he had lost Rostov too. (And I red that he used some prestige points to get pps...)
I won some prestige points and I could have use them to get extra pps...this is something that I don't like in this rule. If a side do very well, he will get stronger !
The map is huge and we had finish only the first act of this scenario. I think that the soviet can recover from a very bad situation like we have seen here. The axis has so much to do and I had lost a lot of tanks (Maybe I have use them to much in attack...)
I like a lot the implement of the stock piles for Artillery. I have fire my arty only when they were at full.
Oil : Not a problem but I had use half of my stock. My idea was to march toward Stalingrad, move maybe some panzers by train. The front of Rostov would have been the only one active. I would have wait to have my oil reserve at full before launching another operation. I hope in this game that the axis player will have to do that. You plan an operation but first you concentrate the troops, the arty. You wait until your reserve of oil is maximum and that your officers have plenty of command points (enough to play cards for three or four turns in a row)
RE: Great
Having this scenario being decided by either side at Voronezh is anticlimactic to say the least.
As I noted in the other thread for this AAR, the Germans never intended to take the place and Hitler actually sacked von Bock for getting sucked into a battle for it -- the idea was to race down the Don ASAP and use it to secure their flank, not to cross it and chase Soviet forces in the area. So the incentives here are a bit perverse all around.
If you're going to have a dismissal rule, this objective ought to be removed for both sides so far as this scenario goes. Or at least the penalty/reward should be adjusted downward to not make it an instant loss or win.
As I noted in the other thread for this AAR, the Germans never intended to take the place and Hitler actually sacked von Bock for getting sucked into a battle for it -- the idea was to race down the Don ASAP and use it to secure their flank, not to cross it and chase Soviet forces in the area. So the incentives here are a bit perverse all around.
If you're going to have a dismissal rule, this objective ought to be removed for both sides so far as this scenario goes. Or at least the penalty/reward should be adjusted downward to not make it an instant loss or win.
WitE Alpha Tester
RE: Great
Right. But I think that for the soviets it has to be hold. they thought at first that the offensive in June could turn toward the north and threat Moscou and Voronezh is a key city if the axis wanted to do that. Am I wrong ? Am I not an expect of this war...if so, Voronezh has to be a "strategic position" for the soviets at least.
RE: Great
ORIGINAL: olivier34
Right. But I think that for the soviets it has to be hold. they thought at first that the offensive in June could turn toward the north and threat Moscou and Voronezh is a key city if the axis wanted to do that. Am I wrong ? Am I not an expect of this war...if so, Voronezh has to be a "strategic position" for the soviets at least.
Ya I think Soviets should have some order to hold Voronezh.
But I think for the dismissal rule it should be a softer effect. Maybe if you don't meet your demands you lose some PP, or some VP's or something like that. Then you are motivated to meet the demands but the game won't end since the war didn't end, and this isn't an RPG.
Anyway the good news is that it's an option so it doesn't have to be used. The bad news is that those of us who would like some political pressure (maybe resulting in VP loss if not met) have to choose between 2 very drastic extremes: Either NO political rule, or a gamebreaker-game-ending political rule that is not implemented well anyway and ends the game much too quickly even when historical results take place.
RE: Great
do you resume with the resumé or is this finished?
do you agree that the Axis underpowered?
do you agree that the Axis underpowered?
RE: Great
i am out, they killed me just when a light at the end of tunnel appeared 
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Blind Sniper
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