Is this really working as designed??

[suprass81]

Maybe I've found a fast cure for situation. I'm playing one game- standard rules except we decided that I will declar war on US after Russia surrender and now situation is DIFFERENT- US enter war and there is still hope to defend France, Romania and Portugal still cloesing to entry (thay don't "sleep"). Actually I was thinking that there is no threat from Romenia and I've got them at my back...

[warspite1]

Nice one. If you fancy testing more of this scenario suprass81 then I am happy to do so.

[suprass81]

For me the dream is about rules- US entry after Russia surrnder, 1916 National Morale drop for Russia but a liitle smaller (I mean to let the chance to defeat Russia in 1916 if there will be some succeses for Germans but if CP take only couple of cities Russia should stay in war). No more changes for now.
Is there someone who can mood scripts as above? (Kirk I'm thinking about you )

In my oppinion changes for game should be made step by step...

[Hellfirejet]

Do you all think that the USA should join the Allies, round about 6th April 1917 historical entry time, irrespective off what the U Boat are doing at the time, I mean to say the Game has the entry dates, and turns pre programmed to occur, for the likes of Britain, Russia & Turkey to name a few, I will have to take a closer look at the scripts, to see what is setup for USA entry.

[suprass81]

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Do you all think that the USA should join the Allies, round about 2 April 1917 historical entry time, irrespective off what the U Boat are doing at the time, I mean to say the Game has the entry dates, and turns pre programmed to occur, for the likes of Britain, Russia & Turkey to name a few, I will have to take a closer look at the scripts, to see what is setup for USA entry.

Yes. I think US should has it's own entry date in 1917. And if there is no chance to delaying Russians surrender in 1916 I think that US should go to war right after Russia colapse. This should keep balance a liitle. After US enter war in 1916 (in my other game) minor nations still have thair entry date active.

[Hellfirejet]

I have had a quick look at the number of convoy losses required, before USA enters the war, and its a very high number off 500 losses at least. The way I read it, the loss of 500 convoy points, has the effect of an alliance swing to the allies off -15% from being neutral.

USA ENTRY GAME EVENTS SCRIPT.

-- USA relationship drops several times when a certain number of convoys have been killed
function ConvoyAttacks(attacker, defender)
if defender.prototype ~= nil and defender.prototype.name == "convoy" then
if attacker.faction.alliance.id == 2 then
if GetEvent("ConvoyAttacks1") == 0 then
local convoyLosses = 0
for faction in game:GetAllianceById(1).factions do
convoyLosses = convoyLosses + faction.luaData.statsCasualties["convoy"]
end
if convoyLosses > 500 then
SetEvent("ConvoyAttacks1", game.turn)
local usa = game:GetFactionById(10)
ChangeFactionAlignment(usa, attacker.faction.alliance, -15)
end
end

if GetEvent("ConvoyAttacks2") == 0 then
local convoyLosses = 0
for faction in game:GetAllianceById(1).factions do
convoyLosses = convoyLosses + faction.luaData.statsCasualties["convoy"]
end
if convoyLosses > 1000 then
SetEvent("ConvoyAttacks2", game.turn)
local usa = game:GetFactionById(10)
ChangeFactionAlignment(usa, attacker.faction.alliance, -15)
end
end

[operating]

Not sure how convoy losses are interpeted, English and French convoys, have a rating of 10 each, meaning a one hundred PPs each. By sinking 5 comlete convoys, is that enough to gain America's entry into the war? On the Diplomatic side; it is hard to assess what % the Americans are at accurately. Could the Americans enter on behalf of the CP, due to convoy losses? Also, do CP convoy losses offset Entente convoy losses, as far as America's +/- % go? For America traded with CP prior to entry into the war, how much I do not know at present.

[suprass81]

Here are my another propositions of changes. I don't know if they are possible to make at a modder level.
There are 14 cities in range for CP if they are playing good war against Russia- line Pskov- Smolensk, Kiev, Odessa. So I propose a solution like that:
takeing 8 to 14 cities force Revolution to start as in history. less than 8 cities enable to stay Russia in war untill the bitter end, 15 or more cities captured force Russia to surrender at once.
Hitting hard and makeing Russia bleed from unit lost is allways good for CP (you can't enable them to grow in number) but there can be set a limit of casulties for them that cause manpower to drop to red and change of effectivnes of egsisting units to 8- this could represent low morale of army, mass desertion ect. I don't know how to set of limit of casulties.

[operating]

ORIGINAL: suprass81

Here are my another propositions of changes. I don't know if they are possible to make at a modder level.
There are 14 cities in range for CP if they are playing good war against Russia- line Pskov- Smolensk, Kiev, Odessa. So I propose a solution like that:
takeing 8 to 14 cities force Revolution to start as in history. less than 8 cities enable to stay Russia in war untill the bitter end, 15 or more cities captured force Russia to surrender at once.
Hitting hard and makeing Russia bleed from unit lost is allways good for CP (you can't enable them to grow in number) but there can be set a limit of casulties for them that cause manpower to drop to red and change of effectivnes of egsisting units to 8- this could represent low morale of army, mass desertion ect. I don't know how to set of limit of casulties.

Noticed in a balanced game, that Russia surrenders, at or, around after losing 20 cities, including Petrograd. In a privileged game, Helsinki plus one other Finland city and Petrograd, also Turks taking 6 cities is enough to force surrender, January 1916. Add Warsaw to mix.

[operating]

Goggled this:

2. Economics: Britain, with the world’s most powerful navy, blockaded German ports once the war began, so U.S. trade with the Central Powers fell from $170 million in 1914 to virtually nothing in 1916. On the other hand, the Allies needed U.S. manufactured goods, and because Britain controlled the seas, could get them. U.S. trade with the Allies rose from $825 million in 1914 to $3.2 billion in 1916. Thus, the health of the U.S. economy came more and more to rest on continued trade with the Allies. At the same time, and against the wishes of some Americans who genuinely believed in neutrality, the U.S. loaned huge amounts of money to the Allies so they could continue to purchase American goods. By April 1917, the U.S. had loaned more than $2 billion to the Allies. This gave the U.S. a tremendous stake in the war; if the Allies lost, the U.S. might never recover its loans.

If the North Sea Blockade, was broken, American trade should have resumed.

[suprass81]

Hmm. Takeing Petrograd in multiplayer game is allmoust miracle... And if ther is no error there is allmoust no possibility to lost a city for Ottoman Empire- at last if Ottomans focus on Russia they will be punished by British.
If I'm correct a patch before 1.30 (if I'm correct 1.14) enable Russia to fight untill 1916 unless big errors. maybe a Russian surrender conditions before 1.30 should stay untill now. The changes from 1.30 affects- Country entering war now have first move, some naval changes and speedeng nations surrender (with Russia surrender as well)... so maybe returning only Russians surrender conditions from 1.14? That's my another proposition. In my AAR at Slitherine forum you can see that after sucesess in Rusia thay still fight in 1916 untill 1.30 was installed.

[operating]

OK, you have convinced me to go multiplayer! Lord forbid! Into the "Den of Wolves", it'll be my ruin. For I will have to experience what others are facing on the Russian side, outside the AI games. The 1916 NM drop, does not seem normal to me in the 1.30 either. Although, I must point out that it should not happen if the Russians stay well above the 80% NM threshold.

[suprass81]

ORIGINAL: operating

The 1916 NM drop, does not seem normal to me in the 1.30 either. Although, I must point out that it should not happen if the Russians stay well above the 80% NM threshold.

You mean that you didn't noticed in AI games the NM drop for Russians at the start of 1916?... That's strange. All multiplayer game are now about takeing some of the Russians cities in 1915 and wait until 1916 begun. For sure you have to destroy Russians fleet in Riga (-10 to NM and that's it)... that's all you need to do against Russia.

In my last game with Warspit1 I took only odessa, Chisnau, Warsaw, Vinnytsia and Kiev. Desryed Russians fleet at Baltick SEA and was waiting untill 1916 begun. After that Russia Surrendered.

[operating]

Yes, in an AI game, it is imperitive to draw out the Russian BB to destroy it, I would not expect in a multiplay game that my opponent would put his BB on a platter, nor, would I, that remains to be seen. Again, I will probablly have a different opinion after getting my feet wet in multiplayer. Take note of the BOLD in my previous post, that info comes from Kirk's file quotes. No, I have not seen a Russian NM drop, in my previous Entente games against the AI, seldom do the games go far into 1916, pre Victory.

[suprass81]

Destroying russians fleet = attack it in port. They have no chance to defend. At last no one defended it in my MP games.
From that what the say about Russian moralle drop it all begun if they have 80% or less at the start of 1916 ( if I'm correct). Maybe in games against AI machine was unable to lower your Russian NM to that level... It is possible that live opponent will not be able to sucesfully attack Russia (everything is possible when playing against live opponent but from my experience if CP focus on Russia they will achive what thay want unless the are makeing some real errors.

[operating]

I should add; That I won those games sometimes without the Russian BB (sunk)!

[operating]

ORIGINAL: suprass81

Destroying russians fleet = attack it in port. They have no chance to defend. At last no one defended it in my MP games.

Can't agree with that, anytime that I have attacked a ship in port has been near fatal to my attacking navy. The most CP can bring to bare at Riga is 2 ships for an attack, if russian BB is at Petrograd, only one CP ship can attack. Yes, there is some damage (Rus BB), but usually not fatal.

[suprass81]

ORIGINAL: operating

ORIGINAL: suprass81

Destroying russians fleet = attack it in port. They have no chance to defend. At last no one defended it in my MP games.

Can't agree with that, anytime that I have attacked a ship in port has been near fatal to my attacking navy. The most CP can bring to bare at Riga is 2 ships for an attack, if russian BB is at Petrograd, only one CP ship can attack. Yes, there is some damage (Rus BB), but usually not fatal.

First attack will be inefective but second will sink BB. The losses will be at both sides but Russians will lost 10 NM. I've seen it about 6 times after 1.30. Always worked against my opponent and against me.
You can block way out from Riga port to Petrograd before Russia enter war. If they will try to flee the job is eaven easier...

[suprass81]

I have lost on BB and one DD but I need this - 10 for Russia.
Picture made just a few minutes ago in AI game.

[operating]

ORIGINAL: suprass81

ORIGINAL: operating

The 1916 NM drop, does not seem normal to me in the 1.30 either. Although, I must point out that it should not happen if the Russians stay well above the 80% NM threshold.

You mean that you didn't noticed in AI games the NM drop for Russians at the start of 1916?... That's strange. All multiplayer game are now about takeing some of the Russians cities in 1915 and wait until 1916 begun. For sure you have to destroy Russians fleet in Riga (-10 to NM and that's it)... that's all you need to do against Russia.

In my last game with Warspit1 I took only odessa, Chisnau, Warsaw, Vinnytsia and Kiev. Desryed Russians fleet at Baltick SEA and was waiting untill 1916 begun. After that Russia Surrendered.

Did you catch the Russian BB in open water? There is a lot of turns between Aug 1914 to Jan 1916. Warspite must of been keeping an eye on his NM to maintain above 80%, if he wasn't, I'd love to know why? The Russians start a game with 30pps, and would average roughly 30 pps a turn, minus, any new troops, that's not a bad # to have, prior to Turkey getting into the war. AH would have around 40 pps, but they have the Serbs at their back, if the Serbs are making a fuss, AH cannot ignore it. Plus, I feel as though the Russians at the start have better troops in Poland than AH has at the border, also, it would unlikely AH would have a gun ready to use against the Russians. Commanders, is another story. How you got into Vinnytsia, is the big question? I can see why Warsaw could be be an easy pickoff, but that should have been the only city lost.