Drums of War - No BigBaba

[Bozo_the_Clown]

Hit a new low in my affection for wite atm.

The combat system is a little bit like Civilization 1 where a spearman could defeat a tank. I experience the same feeling of dismay when one of my stacks get defeated by single Russian units. [:@]

Seriously, you should test run the first turn until it's perfect. For example you should always take Riga on T1 and maybe do the extended Lvov pocket by routing two Panzer Corps South. And of course you must use bombers for fuel supply and frequent HQ buildups. You might also need to change the way you build your railroads. I send three RR repair units up north now. Just a couple of ideas. Test it out and then kick Bigbaba's big butt. [:D]

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

Hit a new low in my affection for wite atm.

I feel for you Terje.....there is no margin for error as the axis right now. If you don't have a great opening turn and know how to keep your panzers full of gas (which I haven't figured out yet) you'll be fighting west of the historical lines at the start of the blizzard. And then you have to deal with the blizzard!

I doubt we will see any changes now but I'd personally like to see the 1:1 rule go away at the start of the blizzard. The Soviets are strong enough where they don't need it.

Actually my main issue now is that the numbers are too powerful. Placing one Pz.Div alone = guaranteed retreat after the USSR is done. This again = less surrounded USSR units.
Just too tired of how this game works now. Actually to the extent that I am not sure I will jump Witw at release tbh [:(]


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

Hit a new low in my affection for wite atm.

The combat system is a little bit like Civilization 1 where a spearman could defeat a tank. I experience the same feeling of dismay when one of my stacks get defeated by single Russian units. [:@]

Seriously, you should test run the first turn until it's perfect. For example you should always take Riga on T1 and maybe do the extended Lvov pocket by routing two Panzer Corps South. And of course you must use bombers for fuel supply and frequent HQ buildups. You might also need to change the way you build your railroads. I send three RR repair units up north now. Just a couple of ideas. Test it out and then kick Bigbaba's big butt. [:D]

I estimate I've run some 20 T1s against the AI, I've read about the same amount of AARs.
Yet, I never take Riga on T1, and if I do, I am told I have routed too many units. And then ofc I always get that crucial held result outside Lvov which means that the pocket will not hold.
Nah, if I need to make a perfect T1 to have any chance, imo the game is severly flawed.

My RR is actually not too bad [:)]
I have reached the front in a lot of places, so that is not the main problem.
And ofc, my bombers to carry fuel every turn [;)]

Terje

[Bozo_the_Clown]

Nah, if I need to make a perfect T1 to have any chance, imo the game is severly flawed.

It's true that T1 is really annoying. I don't like testing but in this case I'm willing to make an exception because after T1 the game is totally open. I'm willing to pay that price.

Taking Riga on T1 is not difficult at all. I end up with 2 Pz divisions east of the city with 4 MPs. That gives me 4 hasty attacks. However, I've never had a single Held attacking the city.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

Nah, if I need to make a perfect T1 to have any chance, imo the game is severly flawed.

It's true that T1 is really annoying. I don't like testing but in this case I'm willing to make an exception because after T1 the game is totally open. I'm willing to pay that price.

Taking Riga on T1 is not difficult at all.
1. I end up with 2 Pz divisions east of the city with 4 MPs. That gives me 4 hasty attacks.
2. However, I've never had a single Held attacking the city.

1. No problem
2. That for me = 4xHeld [:(]


Terje

[SigUp]

As you complain about the game being redesigned to contain those super-guys, making it harder for us normal people, I thought I take a look at your opening turns from a "normal" perspective. I by no means am a good player (Gabriel B can testify [:D]), but I think you could reconsider parts of your opening and see how it will develop from there on, as not making it past the Dnepr in the centre by September is tough for having a fun game.

First in the North I think it is advisable to go out there and pocket the Soviet units in front of 18th Army. The pocket can easily be cleared (aside perhaps from a couple of stragglers) on turn 2, giving 18th Army a free lane to push north. Second, speed, either towards Pskov or Velikie Luki is important, so crossing the Dvina with a panzer corps of 4th Panzer Group is in my opinion essential.

In the Centre I think it is questionable to send 2nd Panzer Group northwards, especially if you send one of its corps South. It wastes fuel and MPs for the drive towards the Berezina and Dnepr the following turn. Rather try to position at least one corps at Baranovichi. Then, in my eyes a corps of 3rd Panzer Group either at Daugavpils or between Daugavpils and Vilnius makes it easier to open up the landbridge. Also, try to capture Brest-Litovsk, otherwise your rail repair starts with a one turn delay.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: SigUp

As you complain about the game being redesigned to contain those super-guys, making it harder for us normal people, I thought I take a look at your opening turns from a "normal" perspective. I by no means am a good player (Gabriel B can testify [:D]), but I think you could reconsider parts of your opening and see how it will develop from there on, as not making it past the Dnepr in the centre by September is tough for having a fun game.

First in the North I think it is advisable to go out there and pocket the Soviet units in front of 18th Army. The pocket can easily be cleared (aside perhaps from a couple of stragglers) on turn 2, giving 18th Army a free lane to push north. Second, speed, either towards Pskov or Velikie Luki is important, so crossing the Dvina with a panzer corps of 4th Panzer Group is in my opinion essential.

In the Centre I think it is questionable to send 2nd Panzer Group northwards, especially if you send one of its corps South. It wastes fuel and MPs for the drive towards the Berezina and Dnepr the following turn. Rather try to position at least one corps at Baranovichi. Then, in my eyes a corps of 3rd Panzer Group either at Daugavpils or between Daugavpils and Vilnius makes it easier to open up the landbridge. Also, try to capture Brest-Litovsk, otherwise your rail repair starts with a one turn delay.

The reason for not pushing harder at the LG sector was taken at the start simply because I never take LG no matter if I send the entire Wehrmacht up there [:D]
But I think you do not see the real problem, if T1 is not perfect you end up spending time and MP resealing pockets, and you end up without RR-repair capabilities which slows you down even further. Which means you WILL face a USSR wall at the Dnepr, as by then all useless USSR commanders have been changed out. Add in my friggin die-throw luck (I am serious), and you are stopped.

But look at what you say, (and I mean no offence here [:)]), you point out you MUST do this and this to get an ok opening. That is exactly the problem I have with the game now. If you mess up the smallest thing, you have more or less lost the game. That is not how things should work imo [:)]


Terje

[SigUp]

By the way you talk it sounds like you blame your struggles on your imperfect handling of the tools. Something I can understand, because my handling of the tools is also flawed. However, no offense either, I see the main reason of your troubles in questionable operational decisions. Because in the centre as far as I saw it your pockets on the first turn largely held, but still you were stopped cold at the Dnepr. In the South you indeed encountered troubles sealing the pocket. But this can be corrected by more practice, perhaps going the Pelton road and making notes.

As far as Leningrad, even if you don't go for Pskov, driving towards Velikie Luki can force the Soviet to extend forces to his flanks. You are making it slightly easier if you help him in shrinking the frontage.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: SigUp

By the way you talk it sounds like you blame your struggles on your imperfect handling of the tools. Something I can understand, because my handling of the tools is also flawed. However, no offense either, I see the main reason of your troubles in questionable operational decisions. Because in the centre as far as I saw it your pockets on the first turn largely held, but still you were stopped cold at the Dnepr. In the South you indeed encountered troubles sealing the pocket. But this can be corrected by more practice, perhaps going the Pelton road and making notes.

As far as Leningrad, even if you don't go for Pskov, driving towards Velikie Luki can force the Soviet to extend forces to his flanks. You are making it slightly easier if you help him in shrinking the frontage.

All you say is true, but once more the REAL issue is that unless you play near perfection as the Axis, you lose the game in the first 4-5 turns [;)]

Terje

[Bozo_the_Clown]

I just noticed that you are playing this game with 1.07.08. You guys should have used the new beta patch 1.07.10. It makes a huge difference. Soviet replacement units only get to a moral of 45.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

I just noticed that you are playing this game with 1.07.08. You guys should have used the new beta patch 1.07.10. It makes a huge difference. Soviet replacement units only get to a moral of 45.

Not anymore I think [:D]


Terje

[terje439]

Turn 14

Overall
As expected, my stacks were displaced by USSR attacks, so no pocketed units. We reform the pockets and form a few new ones, yet I do not expect them to hold. In total we took some 10-12 hexes this turn...Another partisan hunted down this turn.
3 USSR attacks = 3 retreats.
24 Axis attacks resulted in 4 helds, 16 retreats, 3 routs and 1 shatter.

Casualties
USSR : 66.000 troops, 794 guns, 234 AFVs, 302 AC.
Axis : 45.000 troops, 400 guns, 229 AFVs, 97 AC.

USSR units in pockets at the start of the turn
0.

USSR units in pockets at the end of the turn
12.

USSR units destroyed
1 Army Artillery Regiment.

German Pools
Manpower : 39.992
Vehicles : 163.784
Armaments : 87.345
Hiwi : 62.775

[2ndACR]

Just about anytime the Russian can get 6 div or more against the German he will force a retreat. Not always, but most of the time. I have never been a fan of the 1v1 rule that favors the Russian. That is one rule I would love to see go to the wayside.

Once the new patch is out I might have to come back for another try.

[terje439]

Yeah, well with the new patch, this becomes my last game, so guess some come and so go [:)]
 
 
Terje

[SigUp]

I still don't understand your problems with the patch. If anything it improves your prospects. With the way you play the restrictions on aerial resupply is not affecting you much and the SU fix increases the strength of German units and in addition the blizzard fix eases up the pressure to have a flawless opening month.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: SigUp

I still don't understand your problems with the patch. If anything it improves your prospects. With the way you play the restrictions on aerial resupply is not affecting you much and the SU fix increases the strength of German units and in addition the blizzard fix eases up the pressure to have a flawless opening month.

Yeah, I get that people do not get it [:)]
The bombers keep 4 PzDivs with fuel per turn, which in a bog down slugging match (and especially in those cases were you do not have room to fit the HQs across major rivers), might be the only way to get enough MP to those panzers to actually use them for deliberate attacks which is a necessity.
But, most people like what they see, I do not, so call me an oddball [:)]
And before I see actual proof, I am not sure the blizzard fix is that big a fix [;)]
I'll probably be proven wrong, but I am really not having fun with the game anymore, and the last 4-5 patches have made it a little less fun, so I might be overly pessimistic I suppose.

Terje

[Bozo_the_Clown]

Yeah, I get that people do not get it

No I get it. These combat results are a joke! Not sure what's going on anymore. I'm hoping that the new patch will improve things.

[SigUp]

Well, the first one is a 2:1 due to the 1:1 --> 2:1 rule. I do agree that the combat system needs some kind of cap on the range of the CV modification. And perhaps the +1 rule should be reconsidered, even in the Summer months.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

Well, the first one is a 2:1 due to the 1:1 --> 2:1 rule.

I understand that but the results are a complete joke. How can 90000 poorly equipped Soviets with no tanks win a battle against 40000 Germans with 170+ tanks and air support. It's just poor game design.

Where are the SHC fan club realism guys and why aren't they commenting on this? [:D]

[Flaviusx]

Bozo, the guy you need to convince is Gary. This is his pet rule. Nobody else really believes in it. It has no basis in reality whatsoever. If you think this rule is a product of the Soviet mafia, you're barking up the wrong tree.