Spanking of the Sheep! - Allied Surrender on T53

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JocMeister
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: loki100

re the VPs, I think the game design problem is with no representation of the naval war the designers need something to reflect the large diversion of effort that went into effectively beating the U-boats over 1943. So the WA either pay the price in the currency of VPs or of diverted effort?

Now it may well be that the game is yet to be balanced in VP terms, that I suspect will take quite a few completed games to come to a judgement over, but I think they are on the right lines with the mechanism. The problem with this type of routine, which is to some extent outside the games' core systems, is that is where imbalances more easily arise.

If Pelton is using AS directives, then things that occur to me are:

a) he takes some operational losses if you are there or not?
b) go in mob handed on just 1 or 2 days, so he flies the rest of time to no effect
c) annoy him by hitting something else most of the time, then do raids say 1 week in three over Hamburg et al.

All this 'advice' may well be, as in my local venacular, complete mince, its one problem when playing someone very able is they seem to have all the options closed off and seemingly more capacity than appears reasonable. I'm in a roughly similar situation in my current WiTE PBEM where all I seem to do is to play into my opponents hands - so face the choice of sticking to what may work in the long term, or coming up with something new (that may well in reality work no better)

good fun really [;)]

Pelton doesn´t seem to lose much in OP losses. But I bet FOV is pretty heavy in that area. But he is flying short distances with superior numbers (in terms of fighters). So naturally OP losses are lower then mine.

Regarding "C" that is quite interesting. I have been trying to hit a certain target for 1 day and then 3 days later hit another target. But for some reason I can´t get the 8th to switch to a second target? Don´t know if I lose/damage so many bombers during the 1st raid that the AI deems the raid will be too weak and never launches? Keep in mind the 8th is already down to about 70% strength.

Regarding opponents I have the same experience from AE. My first opponent was (and still am) extremely capable. He ran circles around me for 2 years before I started to get the hang of things. In the end I think I made me a much better player then if I had played another "newbie". So I don´t mind being outplayed by Pelton. Its a humbling experience but I´m learning 10 new things each day. [:)]

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JocMeister
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

If its out of p47 and spit range is what I mean by deep into Germany.
My last screenshot of bombing raid at U-boats I took the entire 8th air force to Hamburg 1 raid a day for 3 days.
300 plus p38 and p51's (for some reason only could get 144 escorts per raid)
600 plus b17 b24 (only would fly 330ish per raid)
I faced raid1 300 fighters
raid2 280
raid3 254
My losses from flak and a2a-- 44 fighters, 64 bombers, Germans 23 fighters
Bombed the U-boat factory from 27k and did 79 percent damage to 35 factories.
The next turn U-boat points went down to -1
I am actually happy that I didn't lose more planes on the first raid being outnumbered 2-1 in fighters.
Its hard for me to do really good aar with server game but I will try to put some air details into the next one vp charts etc.
One thing is for sure, my experience is that if you play Pelton, bring your a+game 8)

Here is a pretty typical raid from my AAR. Pretty good damage and a fairly good number of escorts. This is one of the better raids though. I usually lose about twice that numbers for about the same damage.

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Yeah, I hate playing a server game. It sucks not being able to access the game at will to write and update the AAR. [:(] I have found it becomes a little bit easier when you use Fraps though. As you can take multiple screenshots without leaving the game. But I still forget to do it about half the time. Most often I simply forget to start Fraps beforehand and I have had numerous crashes when ALT+TAB out to start Fraps. Oddly enough I never had problems like that when playing PBEM. I think it may be Fraps that messes with WitW in some way.
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marion61
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by marion61 »

Just fly low key for awhile and let your pools rebuild. You will get an infusion of aircraft around the end of 43, so just hang on. Once December hits, start taking out all the VWL sites before Jan 44. He will have to move his aircraft forward if he wants to protect his VWL sites. If it were me, I wouldn't bother, but I'm not sure what he's got planned for you ;).
JocMeister
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: meklore61

Just fly low key for awhile and let your pools rebuild. You will get an infusion of aircraft around the end of 43, so just hang on. Once December hits, start taking out all the VWL sites before Jan 44. He will have to move his aircraft forward if he wants to protect his VWL sites. If it were me, I wouldn't bother, but I'm not sure what he's got planned for you ;).

Probably something I won´t like very much! [:D]
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smokindave34
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by smokindave34 »

Those bomber losses you suffered in your last screenshot are pretty high. It's been said before but I would consider changing up your targets for a turn or two (go after HI or fuel) to keep Pelton off balance. See if he moves his fighters around to respond to your changing tactics. You will lose some VP from not hitting the U-boat pens but you may keep him off balance and not have to deal with a swarm of 300+ LW fighters.
JocMeister
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

Those bomber losses you suffered in your last screenshot are pretty high. It's been said before but I would consider changing up your targets for a turn or two (go after HI or fuel) to keep Pelton off balance. See if he moves his fighters around to respond to your changing tactics. You will lose some VP from not hitting the U-boat pens but you may keep him off balance and not have to deal with a swarm of 300+ LW fighters.

Yupp, just did. Update on the way. [:)]
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JocMeister
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by JocMeister »

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[font="Verdana"]Turn 7. August 1943[/font]
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Europe
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After rain comes sunshine. [:)] Not sure what really happened but VP loss went from -7 to -1 the last turn despite mediocre results. Time to switch targets for a turn at least! [:)]

I also had missed that the next version of the B24 was available already. I had 320 or so in the pools so I could upgrade some of the almost empty B24 BGs to full strength again. 8th was given priority but one BG in the Med was also upgraded.

B17 pool remains empty and I just realized I have two more turns to go before the F model becomes available and not one as I though! [:@]

But on the happy side the P51 pool had grown enough for me to upgrade a P38 squadron putting a small number of P38s in the pool.

And we had have a fantastic day over the Ruhr. Very low losses and a good amount of damage dished out! [&o]

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JocMeister
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by JocMeister »

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[font="Verdana"]Turn 7. August 1943[/font]
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Mediterranean
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Very quite day here. But Tactical and Strategic take a rest doing only some recon. I´m trying to find the Luftwaffe but only the AR are found. By the looks of the planes found by our long range recon the RA is now shot. Most Squadrons have zero planes or just a few.

Sicily is cleared and we start expending airbases and rebase some bombers on Sicily. A P40 Group upgrades to P47s.

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VPs
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Instead of spiraling out control VP loss from U-boats suddenly go from -7 to -1 despite mediocre results last turn. I might have hit the big factory at Hamburg harder then I though. Subject to FOW?

"Other" and "US" losses look high but the Scenario started out with them at -36 and -8 if I remember correctly. Feel a little bit better about things today. [:)]

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JocMeister
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by JocMeister »

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[font="Verdana"]Air Losses T7[/font]
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marion61
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by marion61 »

Those numbers are for the total of 7 weeks of flying. They don't look too high to me, and the good part is that your doing him better than 2 to 1. Axis pilots will be gone within a year.
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loki100
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


Instead of spiraling out control VP loss from U-boats suddenly go from -7 to -1 despite mediocre results last turn. I might have hit the big factory at Hamburg harder then I though. Subject to FOW?

don't forget (says he who has just discovered this) that you can tell your recon what to prioritise, so you can try to really be accurate on a single line of the targetting options
JocMeister
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: meklore61

Those numbers are for the total of 7 weeks of flying. They don't look too high to me, and the good part is that your doing him better than 2 to 1. Axis pilots will be gone within a year.

I compared them with my AI game (love having saves! [:D]) and they are just a tad higher against Pelton. What really differs are the pools which were cut quite heavily in the first update.

But I think the devs realize the problem. This is in the changelog for the BETA.
1. New Aircraft Upgrades (section 8.1.8) – US 2-4 engine aircraft may not be used for upgrades 1 month after beginning production. US single engine aircraft are still not available until 3 months after beginning production.

So that means the B17G model will become available 2 months earlier. Which will save the 8th. [&o]
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JocMeister
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: loki100
don't forget (says he who has just discovered this) that you can tell your recon what to prioritise, so you can try to really be accurate on a single line of the targetting options

Haha, thanks. I also discovered this only 2 weeks ago. [:)]
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JocMeister
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by JocMeister »

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[font="Verdana"]Turn 8. August 1943[/font]
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Europe
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The screenshot for the 8th didn´t stick for some reason. But we hit the same target at Bomber Command. But instead of HI/MAN the 8th hit Oil/Fuel/HI knocking out about 50 points! [&o]

B17 situation is critical now. Next turn I can upgrade some of the most depleted groups though. So much of the 8th will be grounded next turn.

Switched BC to night attacks and as expected it was a complete waste of time. I´ll use them at day instead but to lessen losses I´ll let them go in only every second week.

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JocMeister
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by JocMeister »

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B17 Situation
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JocMeister
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by JocMeister »

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Mediterranean
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We go after the RA again. Some 400 planes destroyed on the ground for about 150 own losses. Most noticeable are 150+ transports destroyed in the attack. I know Pelton loves transports so I hope he will miss them. [:)]

Reading Peltons AAR against DiceT was an eyeopener. I changed my plans and are back to scratch. I will lose 8 turns or so but rather safe then sorry. [X(]

Expansion of airbases are slow as the engineers repair the rail lines instead of building bases and repairing ports.

Fraps failed to register the screens. I´ll have another try next time.
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JocMeister
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by JocMeister »

PS, could anyone recommend an WITE AAR that covers the ground war in good detail? Down to the small stuff?
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marion61
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by marion61 »

Don't split your forces, put SU's in your divisions and don't invade south of Rome. You can get most of your air power on Sardinia and Corsica so invade as close to your airfields as possible.
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Baelfiin
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by Baelfiin »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

PS, could anyone recommend an WITE AAR that covers the ground war in good detail? Down to the small stuff?
Totally different games, I wouldn't use WITE as a base because so much is different in the air and logistics.
"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.
JocMeister
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RE: Spanking of the Sheep! - JocMeister(WA) vs Pelton(Axis)

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: meklore61

Don't split your forces, put SU's in your divisions and don't invade south of Rome. You can get most of your air power on Sardinia and Corsica so invade as close to your airfields as possible.

Working on it! [:D]
ORIGINAL: Baelfiin
Totally different games, I wouldn't use WITE as a base because so much is different in the air and logistics.

I can still learn a lot I believe. All of you seem to have played WITE expensively while I havn´t played anything but AI just after release. So much of the ground stuff is Greek to me. [:)]
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