(oh) For a Few Panzers More –loki100 vs smokindave34 (game over - Allied major victory)

[loki100]

Turn 47: 3 – 9 June 1944

Seems that the new arrivals are very keen to escape their gated beach side resort



well up to a point



Their new found assertiveness even affects their behaviour in Italy



Still, 8 Air had a pretty bad week trying to bomb the V2 factories on the Baltic




(shows some selected air types)

VP score moves briefly in my favour, - to be expected given the outbreak of some fighting



Anyway, an attempt is made to hold back the horde till the new hotels are built

[loki100]

Turn 48: 10-16 June 1944

The recent influx of British and American tourists leads to unseemly outbreaks of violence – but fortunately so far most of France is spared the consequences



In Italy, German troops bravely defend the Uffizi from similar touristic excesses


[1]

In the air the Luftwaffe 'meet and greet' service continues to be quite effective


(shows selected air types)
[2]

In France, an attempt is made to restore order ...




[1] Although a very important statue did lose both its arms
[2] Unfortunately 15 Air did not appear – pity as a really special surprise had been laid on for them

[loki100]

Turn 49: 17-23 June 1944

Allies make gains in France but the line still holds in Italy. In France I want to hold onto Le Havre as long as I can in order to limit their resupply options.



VP situation sort of in my favour due to the recent fighting but I've paid a high price for mismanaging the EF situation.



I'm still reasonably happy with my defense of the Reich but slowly my 'pilots killed' is eating into my ability to keep the fighter squadrons using only trained pilots.

[KWG]

Good attack by 1SS Corps et al. in the mud. A seldom seen concentration of German armor. The rain must have lessen the impact of Allied aircraft on your ground forces but not on the Luftwaffe.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: KWG

Good attack by 1SS Corps et al. in the mud. A seldom seen concentration of German armor. The rain must have lessen the impact of Allied aircraft on your ground forces but not on the Luftwaffe.

he also made it easy for me ... they were mostly sitting there waiting (I think I only moved up 2 divisions), so it was one of those situations where interdiction is not crippling.

unfortunately that was the last time he's made that mistake for a while [;)]

[loki100]

Turn 50: 24 – 30 June 1944

Now those of you paying attention will recall I mentioned I wanted to keep hold of Le Havre for as long as possible to deny it as a supply source. I actually think that is a problem to invading in this area is the lack of decent ports.

In a different game I've made a similar mistake when landing to the east of Dieppe, and while I've broken out, its a struggle to find some useful small ports that really ease building up supply capacity.

Ok, well my troops seemed to have got the message:



or not



damn.

And just to add to the misery, the Uffizi is now banning German tourists



Here's the VP situation. Bright spot for me is the relatively low score for strategic bombing.



So in France I redeployed behind the Seine. Hope to keep the allies bottled up for a little bit longer.



As you can see Normandy is now empty – almost everyone from there has been sent to fight the Russians. Now in a few turns, the Allies are going to bomb the local farm animals and wild life – clearly the depraved acts of 15 Air are spreading to other parts of their airforce.

[loki100]

Turn 51: 1 – 7 July 1944

Last turn my new master plan, was to hold the Allies to the north of the Seine. That lasted, oh, ... not very long.



Just to make things worse, the British bombed the zoo in Duisberg, killing off some of the local Panther breeding stock



Given the other discussion, here is the loss table so far:



My crew losses are going up as I am taking more and more squadrons off 'trained pilots'. Instead that is being reserved for my new Me-262s.

VP situation



East Front is coming back under control but I've clearly paid a high price for mismanaging the situation. I guess a second cost will be an early end to the war with a further bonus for the Allies at that stage.

Anyway, I decide for the moment to try and contain the allies. Their airpower is dropping a bit (I guess units are having to rest) and I want to limit their capacity to expand their supply network.

[loki100]

Turn 52: 8-14 July 1944

Well this turn opened with a shock ... not so much the Allied breakout over the Seine, more the VP shift.

My immediate thought was that Uncle Joe was back on the vodka and had retired to a dacha in the Urals?



My next thought was that 15 Air had bombed the wrong target again



As opposed to their usual performance.

But no:



We'd both forgotten about the beachhead penalty. Now this happened by mistake, in the last turn I was looking for a chance to counterattack and took back 2 empty hexes, realised the defences were too strong so fell back to my start lines.

Seems this had dropped the Allies below 10 hexes on the critical turn. All very unplanned so we've agreed to basically ignore the consequences.

In the meantime my disastrous handling of the EF box continues to have more immediate consequences.



Not much I can do now but send as many new units east and ensure that only units in the east are on refit.

Back in France …

[loki100]

Turn 53: 15-21 July 1944

Main event this turn is the arrival of a second wave of holiday makers in Normandy. Not shown, but their arrival was preceeded by a massive bombing campaign clearly aimed at the local cute and cuddly wildlife.



Fortunately, the kind hearted German army had removed them, plus the farm animals and Calvados stocks to somewhere much safer.

I'm also assuming that was the last major set of landings in northern Europe this summer.

Well maybe not that much safer:



Here's the EF box, trying desparately to bring it back under control after neglecting the situation for most of the game.



Overall, for the moment, I want to try and keep the Allies pinned down where they are. My rough idea is to retreat to Belgium in the Autumn, defend the approaches to the Rhine over the early winter and try to limit the scope for any crossings in the critical period when the river is frozen.

[loki100]

Turn 54: 22 – 28 July 1944

Not that much happened this turn – that is you count losing about 25% of France as 'not much happened'. For the moment, I'm going to try and hold the line of the Seine. Basic goal is to deny too many city VP (especially for Paris) for as long as I can.



Air losses so far:



And here are some of the main pools etc. No real shortages – in fact I'd rather like some of that manpower to appear on the map – preferably off fighting the Soviets.

[Peltonx]

Almost to easy. Is Spam invasion back after the last nerf?

As if they could do that, really?

Just disband LB's they are usless and hold fighters back by central Germany.

vs a good WA players its the only option vs a poor player sure they can do
some damage, but not vs someone that knows the current rulesets

Only things saving u is his lack of understanding BH ruleset heheheh

really kinda funny over all, nice AAR read of not what to do for both sides [:)]

[Seminole]

Almost to easy. Is Spam invasion back after the last nerf?

I see him having used a total of 8 Amphibs. The first was a 3 site invasion, then 5 in the follow up attack at Normandy.
Given the date it looks like he decided to forego or delay Dragoon.
Just presume from the aftermath the strategy was to draw reserves (which it did in addition to the neglected EF), and then land a larger force.
How does this constitute 'spam invasion'?

As if they could do that, really?

Why not?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

...

Only things saving u is his lack of understanding BH ruleset heheheh

really kinda funny over all, nice AAR read of not what to do for both sides [:)]

I realise this is a million miles from your mindset but I have no problems putting up an AAR that shows my own mistakes and acknowledges them to be mistakes. Can be quite useful for people learning the game. The AGEOD forums have several of mine (well shared with a gaming colleague) in which I got absoluterly stuffed - very useful for someone coming to grips with that particular game. I don't feel the urge to have a meaningless win ratio in my signature.

ORIGINAL: Seminole

Almost to easy. Is Spam invasion back after the last nerf?

I see him having used a total of 8 Amphibs. The first was a 3 site invasion, then 5 in the follow up attack at Normandy.
Given the date it looks like he decided to forego or delay Dragoon.
Just presume from the aftermath the strategy was to draw reserves (which it did in addition to the neglected EF), and then land a larger force.
How does this constitute 'spam invasion'?

no idea how Pelton got to that claim, think anything and everything is being fitted into his 'game is broken' narrative at the moment. My suspicion is that Dave believed I was going to hang on to NW France. At worst this gives him more supply entry points and he'll clear out the Normandy/Brittany ports which will help his overall supply position. I personally would have kept something back for Marseilles etc. In a couple of my games I've found that to be only second to Antwerp in terms of overall supply value.

[whoofe]

I am enjoying this AAR

I do have a question though. seems the allied player did a reasonably good job keeping U-boat VPs down, but also looks like he has ignored V-weapon VPs?

[carlkay58]

whoofe, it is relatively easy to keep the UBoat VPs down but the VWeapon VPs are much harder. The VW VPs are much higher and the factory sites are spread out over all of Germany and Austria so are harder to hit. Allied strategic recon has a hard time reaching the VW factories so it is easy for the Allies to think the factory is destroyed while it is actually fully operational.

[whoofe]

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

whoofe, it is relatively easy to keep the UBoat VPs down but the VWeapon VPs are much harder. The VW VPs are much higher and the factory sites are spread out over all of Germany and Austria so are harder to hit. Allied strategic recon has a hard time reaching the VW factories so it is easy for the Allies to think the factory is destroyed while it is actually fully operational.

gotcha. I suppose capturing territory helps keep these VPs lower as you go though?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: whoofe

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

whoofe, it is relatively easy to keep the UBoat VPs down but the VWeapon VPs are much harder. The VW VPs are much higher and the factory sites are spread out over all of Germany and Austria so are harder to hit. Allied strategic recon has a hard time reaching the VW factories so it is easy for the Allies to think the factory is destroyed while it is actually fully operational.

gotcha. I suppose capturing territory helps keep these VPs lower as you go though?

that is vital as it clears out the launch pads in NE France. There are a lot of them and they are very easy to repair. I think this mechanism is basically set up to prevent an allied player bombing to a marginal victory (and boring both players to death). Its very hard to keep the V-weapons supressed and from 1944 bombing yields less VP/level of damage so its harder to really push the overall total

[KWG]

ORIGINAL: loki100

ORIGINAL: whoofe

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

whoofe, it is relatively easy to keep the UBoat VPs down but the VWeapon VPs are much harder. The VW VPs are much higher and the factory sites are spread out over all of Germany and Austria so are harder to hit. Allied strategic recon has a hard time reaching the VW factories so it is easy for the Allies to think the factory is destroyed while it is actually fully operational.

gotcha. I suppose capturing territory helps keep these VPs lower as you go though?

that is vital as it clears out the launch pads in NE France. There are a lot of them and they are very easy to repair. I think this mechanism is basically set up to prevent an allied player bombing to a marginal victory (and boring both players to death). Its very hard to keep the V-weapons supressed and from 1944 bombing yields less VP/level of damage so its harder to really push the overall total

If I played just for VPs, as Allies I would get just above the minimal hexs in Italy/France - dig in. All while bombing only the strategic targets that give VPs and could probably get a major allied victory.

[Seminole]

If I played just for VPs, as Allies I would get just above the minimal hexs in Italy/France - dig in. Then bomb only the strategic targets that give VPs and could probably get a major allied victory.

I'm dubious of that, but presumably you could test that strategy against the AI pretty easily.
You're giving up a lot of VP by not taking cities.
Comparing my first match against S2Tanker, at turn 50 he had just over 120 VP from holding cities for the game:



I had forced his invasions back into the sea, and stymied his campaign to seize the islands in the Med. When he was earning 4 points a turn was when I allowed the Foggia cauldron to form.

Compare that to Loki in this match, where he has given up well over 300 at the same point:



And it losing much more per turn.
I think it would be expensive in terms of opportunity cost for the Allies to forego the points from holding cities, as well as the VP associated with overrunning V-weapon and strategic bombing sites. Surely more than you'd save in casualty VP, isn't it?

[KWG]

TRUE, you could not do it with 1 bombing and -11 uboot/v-weapons VPs a week



From what know and may not be aware of changes in '45. Before my invasion of France I was moving VPs in my favor the majority of turns even while taking losses in US and other casualties in Italy. Remember all them wasteful land attacks I was making?
I could maximize strategic AF to minimize flak/fighter losses.




As I said a major victory probably/maybe, A Victory maybe very so.


Iam little confused on this ...
The Axis already gets the maxed city VPs from the start, so is that not already factored in?