Strategic Command Multiplayer Beta Test

[Hubert Cater]

ORIGINAL: ludi18671

I had an error when I started the replay, probably because I touched the mouse (the error message said something to the effect that Failed: Mouse Wheel used). When I replayed the turn (with replay) I was able to do it fully although I DID NOT touch the mouse.

Thansk Ludi, this should be fixed now on my end.

[Hubert Cater]

ORIGINAL: Happycat

ORIGINAL: johanssb

When I click Host Challenge, the Select Campaign screen never pops up properly. I don't see a list of possible campaigns. If I mouse-over the area where it list My Games then I see buttons for Select Campaign, Victory and Cancel, which I assume are part of the Select Campaign screen. I can click on the Select Campaign button and it will select the first one in the list (1939 Storm Over Europe), but I'm not able to see the list itself, so the screen is not displaying properly.

Is your game installation otherwise working properly for pbem++? I'm not seeing this issue at all---when I open up the Host, I see all campaigns fully displayed. Presumably others are as well, judging from the variety of different campaigns showing up in the challenge section of the lobby.

Hi Johan,

I've seen some intermittent reports for this in the entire Lobby area and I've made a few changes for the next build that will hopefully address this for anyone experiencing this.

[Hubert Cater]

ORIGINAL: n0kn0k

Just resigned two games.
The red cross disappears and the names changes color.
Shouldn't they disappear or does the oppenent need to confirm?
I believe Hubert cancelled our game and I didn't get any notice of it.

That particular highlighting, with the darker orange text and italicized should be an indicator that the game is over, has been viewed on your end, and is now essentially closed and no longer accessible, but still visible on your list until it is removed from the server. I've changed the highlighting for this just slightly for the next build.

[Happycat]

ORIGINAL: elmo3

Here is a screenshot of one partisan as seen from the Axis side. Not sure if it will tell you much. It was an 8 before it attacked in the replay. Looks like my opponent has upgraded it to level 1 already. My understanding is that partisan units did not really start getting organized and come under Stavka control until Spring '42. Before that they were brigade size units at best with many being much smaller. A size 8 and level one makes no sense to me as I said already. Will post any other information or screenshots from my friend later. I asked him how many partisans he has under his control at this point.

I believe that you're right about partisans and STAVKA. But the detachments controlled by STAVKA were behind the enemy lines. If this is just an isolated case of ONE partisan making it back to friendly territory, I think we can live with that. Normally these things are out of supply and not effective game units. But from your earlier message, I understood, perhaps mistakenly, that your opponent had several of these guys, in supply and at the front line?

[elmo3]

He has two in play at the moment including the one in my pic above. He had at least one more on the front that I killed a couple turns ago. The other one is currently in the middle of the Pripyat Marsh and not a factor. To me it's not so much how many but that they can act as fully functional front line units, equivalent to an army, this early in the campaign. Not a game breaker but not very realistic IMHO.

Edit - Assuming you even agree there is a problem, maybe partisan size could be restricted to 2 in '41, 5 in '42, and 8 after that? To me it's not so much a problem of how many, but how big they get too early in the fight. Early in the war they should be a nuisance, not fully functional front line fighting units.

[Happycat]

ORIGINAL: elmo3

He has two in play at the moment including the one in my pic above. He had at least one more on the front that I killed a couple turns ago. The other one is currently in the middle of the Pripyat Marsh and not a factor. To me it's not so much how many but that they can act as fully functional front line units, equivalent to an army, this early in the campaign. Not a game breaker but not very realistic IMHO.

Edit - Assuming you even agree there is a problem, maybe partisan size could be restricted to 2 in '41, 5 in '42, and 8 after that? To me it's not so much a problem of how many, but how big they get too early in the fight. Early in the war they should be a nuisance, not fully functional front line fighting units.

Hi Elmo, I do agree with you that there is a bit of a problem here. It's been given to Hubert and Bill to look at and someone will report back on the resolution, for sure. Thanks for all of the effort and detail you have given to helping with this

UPDATE: Bill is looking at this and especially maximum strength potential. It is noteworthy that partisans have been set at level 8 max in previous versions of SC over the years, and it has never seemed to be something that added much to the Soviet oob. Having 2 or 3 in the front lines is odd, for sure.

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: elmo3

He has two in play at the moment including the one in my pic above. He had at least one more on the front that I killed a couple turns ago. The other one is currently in the middle of the Pripyat Marsh and not a factor. To me it's not so much how many but that they can act as fully functional front line units, equivalent to an army, this early in the campaign. Not a game breaker but not very realistic IMHO.

Edit - Assuming you even agree there is a problem, maybe partisan size could be restricted to 2 in '41, 5 in '42, and 8 after that? To me it's not so much a problem of how many, but how big they get too early in the fight. Early in the war they should be a nuisance, not fully functional front line fighting units.

Hi

Interesting discussion and I'll lay out the situation and my general thoughts here to help us decide if any change might be required.

Any Partisan units on the map represent a gathering of what would in real life probably have been a significant number of partisan groups, essentially enough in one area to have a strategic impact.

Their deployment strength is low but they can be reinforced to 8 if they are in decent supply. This represents the High Command allotting resources to them, which is of debatable value as they cannot be rebuilt cheaply if destroyed and they can only receive a maximum upgrade to level 1.

The trouble with limiting their numbers early in the war is that then the Axis won't need to worry about anti-partisan duties until later, which effectively means that the USSR will be under more pressure rather than less.

In real life, partisans were incorporated into the Red Army as it advanced west, even Polish Home Army soldiers. If this happens earlier in the war then it could reasonably represent groups of Red Army soldiers who had escaped the initial onslaught regrouping behind enemy lines and then linking up with the regular forces, receiving weapons and equipment to enable them to fight - albeit with the restrictions on maximum strength, upgrades and replaceability mentioned above.

Comparing their Combat Stats, a Partisan unit is a Soft Target Type with a base Soft Defense value of 1 (this can be upgraded to 2). A German Corps has a base Soft Attack value of 4, an Army of 5, so when they attack a Partisan unit, all other things being equal, they should win easily. Even more so if the Germans have been upgraded, as they generally have, to level 2 Infantry Weapons by the time they invade the USSR.

If attacking, a Partisan unit has a Hard attack value of 1, and this would compete with a German Corps' base Soft Defence value of 3, an Army's of 4. So again, in normal circumstances the Partisan attack should generally fail.

Personally I would generally keep them operating in areas behind Axis lines for as long as possible, cutting off resources and making a general nuisance of themselves, as they have a minimum supply level of 3 and therefore can survive for a while if the Axis don't launch a proper offensive against them.

If used in the front line by my opponent then as an Axis commander I would either ignore them if there are more important targets, or destroy them with a decisive attack. Their base stats are lower than a Red Army Corps - and Red Army Corps are already lower than their German counterparts.

I hope that makes sense to explain the way things are. If anything works out in a game situation to be widely off then I will always be happy to take a look to see if there is something else or a bug at work. [:)]

Bill

[elmo3]

I have no problem with the number of partisans in the game, just their strength this early in the campaign. I don't think they would have been organized enough this early so as to form large gatherings as you put it. When I said to restrict their "size" above I meant strength of course,not total numbers, in case that wasn't clear.

Given the scale of the game I'm not sure it even makes sense to have partisan units on the map at all. Maybe they should just be represented by road hexes being cut until an Axis unit moves through the hex, or a random hit on a town/city that reduces supply. To me it also makes little sense that the Axis has to devote corps size units to running around playing "whack a mole" with partisans. Doesn't feel right that units that big have to be directly involved in anti-partisan activities, but there are no smaller units that can be used.

Anyway, if you don't see a problem then so be it. Thanks for the discussion.

[elmo3]

ORIGINAL: Happycat

Do you have any light to shed upon the issue of why they are on the front line? They should be popping up in the German rear, and only able to move one hex at a time.

...

Thanks

I added bold to the above quote because after just watching the replay of my friends turn I saw a partisan definitely move more than one hex. Two actually. This was his front line partisan that I watched. Bug?

[freeboy]

in pbem+ can we not get into the game choices? I tried to load a new game and select different options than generic PLEASE help...

[Happycat]

ORIGINAL: elmo3

ORIGINAL: Happycat

Do you have any light to shed upon the issue of why they are on the front line? They should be popping up in the German rear, and only able to move one hex at a time.

...

Thanks

I added bold to the above quote because after just watching the replay of my friends turn I saw a partisan definitely move more than one hex. Two actually. This was his front line partisan that I watched. Bug?

I believe that once they are in supply the movement allowance increases.

[Happycat]

ORIGINAL: elmo3

I have no problem with the number of partisans in the game, just their strength this early in the campaign. I don't think they would have been organized enough this early so as to form large gatherings as you put it. When I said to restrict their "size" above I meant strength of course,not total numbers, in case that wasn't clear.

Given the scale of the game I'm not sure it even makes sense to have partisan units on the map at all. Maybe they should just be represented by road hexes being cut until an Axis unit moves through the hex, or a random hit on a town/city that reduces supply. To me it also makes little sense that the Axis has to devote corps size units to running around playing "whack a mole" with partisans. Doesn't feel right that units that big have to be directly involved in anti-partisan activities, but there are no smaller units that can be used.

Anyway, if you don't see a problem then so be it. Thanks for the discussion.

I haven't tried this yet with SC3, but earlier iterations of the franchise showed partisan pop-up areas if you pressed the "P" key. Then you could figure out where to place cheap little garrison units to suppress their spawning. As long as a spawn point is in the ZOC of the garrison, then partisan won't appear.

I'll check with Bill

[Happycat]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

in pbem+ can we not get into the game choices? I tried to load a new game and select different options than generic PLEASE help...

In a pbem++ game, the intial settings such as "undo" "soft builds" etc. are input by the host player and then cannot be changed. However, any player in a match can go into the "Advanced" tab at the bottom of the settings menu and set their preferences, such as whether to use NATO units or sprites, and the various range circles, etc. etc.

[elmo3]

ORIGINAL: Happycat

I haven't tried this yet with SC3, but earlier iterations of the franchise showed partisan pop-up areas if you pressed the "P" key. Then you could figure out where to place cheap little garrison units to suppress their spawning. As long as a spawn point is in the ZOC of the garrison, then partisan won't appear.

I'll check with Bill

Yes, you can press P to see the partisan spots. No, there are nowhere near enough garrison units for the Axis if you keep the hard cap rule in effect. And I certainly can't afford to start using corps to cover every P! [:)]

[elmo3]

How do you remove completed games from the My Games section of PBEM++? My opponent and I both tried resigning games but they are still there.

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: elmo3

How do you remove completed games from the My Games section of PBEM++? My opponent and I both tried resigning games but they are still there.

They will disappear in due course as the server is cleared up periodically.

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: elmo3

I have no problem with the number of partisans in the game, just their strength this early in the campaign. I don't think they would have been organized enough this early so as to form large gatherings as you put it. When I said to restrict their "size" above I meant strength of course,not total numbers, in case that wasn't clear.

I understand, but it can be hard to have their activities increase over time. The reason being that as although some Partisan locations could be set to only fire from a certain date, e.g. 1st January 1943, the problem is that if the Axis begin their invasion much earlier than historically (and some have done so in early 1940!) then there would be a much more significant delay before they appear than when the USSR is invaded in 1941 or 1942.

As to Partisan units, I think that without them the rear areas just wouldn't feel as under threat as they did in real life. It might be that some tweaking to their stats would help and I'll be bearing this conversation in mind as I get more PBEM games under my belt. [:)]

[elmo3]

Thanks for the reply on the server games Bill. As for partisans we are starting a new Barbarossa game with me as the Soviets, so be ready for me to start complaining about how under powered partisans are! [:'(]

[Guderian1940]

Loaded V1.01.02

I still have a problem with the dialogue boxes not opening in the lobby. I click on Join and the Password boxes flashes and disappears from view. it is still there as I can start typing and it reappears.

Same issue with the challenge. Boxes flash and disappear. Clicking in the Lobby brings them back up. But clunky.

[johanssb]

After upgrading to V1.01.02 this is still an issue. I'm unable to Select Campaigns properly when Hosting a Challenge.