Are VVS losses reasonable?

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jubjub
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Joined: Sun May 02, 2021 12:52 pm

Re: RE: Are VVS losses reasonable?

Post by jubjub »

AlbertN wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:19 pm Just another screenshot for the sake of it.

12 Soviet bombers blast away 10 ATs and 4 real artillery pieces ontop of other stuff.

The real problem (besides how quality these pilots are!) is that the Germans will be advancing out of their air umbrella for a long amount of time in '41, which translates in being beated down to pulps by bombers if the Soviets are attentive and leave their GS on.

Image
I don't find this to be the case. It's fairly straightforward to maintain air coverage, and the Soviets don't have an abundance of Il-2's in '41
jubjub
Posts: 641
Joined: Sun May 02, 2021 12:52 pm

Re: RE: Are VVS losses reasonable?

Post by jubjub »

Stamb wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:40 pm Not sure how SKILL is calculated, is it an average from a group?

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I believe it shows the highest skill pilot in the squadron.
AlbertN
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Location: Italy

Re: Are VVS losses reasonable?

Post by AlbertN »

Pretty sure JubJub is correct!
DarkHorse2
Posts: 1070
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:08 pm

Re: Are VVS losses reasonable?

Post by DarkHorse2 »

Fairly late to respond to this, but here goes.

I had a hard time, initially, getting my head around the VVS losses as well. How could this be happening?

Just considering the 1941 loss data available ( see - https://ww2clash.com/losses ),

Luftwaffe Single-engine fighter losses due to enemy action (excl Nov '41) (all fronts) : 877
VVS fighter combat losses for 1941 : 5,100

Just eye-balling the numbers it appears the Soviet - to - German fighter loss ratio exceeded 5 to 1.

But to get to the heart of the matter, I think you need to look deeper than just aircraft specs and numbers. Obviously, pilot experience played a big factor, but so did the following:
* Air Force doctrine, tactics, command & control, ...
* Communication!
While the quality of Soviet aircraft was improving, German pilots and organization, including above all the critically important field of communications, remained superior. (Aug 1942)
The Russian electronics industry also trailed behind its European competitors, and indeed continues to do so in the 21st century. Consequently, the VVS would be short of navigation aids throughout the war. Furthermore, while radio-telephone transmitter–receivers (transceivers) were in service with the Luftwaffe and the RAF in 1939, they did not become universal in Soviet-built combat aircraft until 1943.
:?: :?: :?:

What? aircraft without radios? seriously?

I think we take this for granted in the west. If you remember, radios were also limited in Soviet armor formations as well. This is a huge factor!!!

Even up until 1943, the VVS were still suffering twice the number of AC losses, yet the tide was turning....
The Soviets showed a new aggressiveness in flying offensive fighter sweeps, and they introduced new tactics, including German-style four-plane formations and Pokryshkin’s Kuban Ladder, a stacked formation. Also playing a distinguished role was the Soviet women’s night-bomber regiment. The campaign ended suddenly on 7 June, at which point the Soviets had claimed 1,100 German aircraft destroyed; the Germans claimed 2,280 victories, but the tide of the air war had turned against them.
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