WitP II Air To Air model Discussion

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

One thing i've learned over time when it comes to features....never assume. [;)]

I'm still trying to figure out what morale does in BTR.....not much from what i've seen

I guess I should have said " I assume these ideas WILL have pros and Cons." If we ask for a system that codes pros and Cons into these options hopefully that is what we will get.

[The Gnome]

Another thing - someone's going to have to bonk me on the head if I post too much - I won't hold it against you if I never have to set the altitudes for my squadrons again. I trust my squadrion commanders, I really do.

Perhaps the mission, the commander's aggression, and the fatigue of the unit could determine this. I know this is an anal, micro-managey group (I say that with admiration!) so maybe this could be an optional thing for slackers like me.

[Sonny]

As an addition to the limited strike size the computer could take into account the types of aircraft involved and the range to target. For example a B-24 strike which has a target barely out of escort range could have a larger strike because it would carry enough fuel for a longer form up time because it is not going more than 270 miles etc.

This may be overkill but as long as the it involves no micromanagement on the players part the computer should be able to handle it.

[tsimmonds]

someone's going to have to bonk me on the head if I post too much

Bro, you got miles to go before you come anywhere close to some of the spam-meisters on this board. Post away!

[Hipper]

Eliminate air group leader ratings entirely.

Can anyone name a single American USAAF, USN, USMC, or Japanese air strike in WW2 that was not flown because the group leader lost their nerve or escort failed to materialize? How often did this happen anyhow?

For WW II no data to hand however on october 18th and 21st 1951 the 98th Bomb wing B29's "turned away from Taechon and bombed a secondary target away from mig Alley"
because the did not meet up with their fighter escort,

source Crimson Sky the air battle for Korea superb book

its got some nice figures for claimed shoot downs vs actual shoot downs as well

Cheers !

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
I'm still trying to figure out what morale does in BTR.....not much from what i've seen

It does......[;)]

Try flying BG's that have low morale (20ish). You'll find that they have to suffer lower losses before they turn back home.

[Nikademus]

Yes, i know you've said it but i'm still able to fly low morale groups without much ill effect, including the units with morale <50. There is some turn back at the start of the mission but it's been negligable. (i'm hoping it will be looked at in the upcoming edition)

[Speedysteve]

Hi,

Groups will still fly the mission but if they encounter opposition you'll notice they'll head back home more often.

A lot of stuff is being looked at. I'll mention it though.

[Nikademus]

yes. I understand. Its not happening or not happening nearly enough. Get to work GEEZER! fix my game dammit. Don't make me come back to the UK and subject your people to an American who drives on the correct side of the road regardless of what you blokes are doing.

[Speedysteve]

Pfffft. Pay me and i'll fix it. Dog gammit.

Please come to Reading. I'll have a welcoming commitee

[The Gnome]

One thing that always left me scratching my head was "How is that pilot all over the sky?" is when I see multiple strikes going in and Uber Pilot X is running up kills against all of them. Maybe there is some way to limit how many times any one plane/pilot can engage in one air phase.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

One thing that always left me scratching my head was "How is that pilot all over the sky?" is when I see multiple strikes going in and Uber Pilot X is running up kills against all of them. Maybe there is some way to limit how many times any one plane/pilot can engage in one air phase.

Agreed, but the potential should always be there. However small the likelyhood though, "Ace in a Day" DID happen in real life. The circumstances would have to be right. I'm talking the Sun and moon are aligned with Jupiter on the Equinox of a leap year, but nevertheless possible.

For example in a branching Air Model the Highly skilled pilot in question would have to begin the engagement with an Altitude, Airspeed, and general performance advantage over the opposing group. This initiative advantage would translate from one successful attack to another by virtue of consecutive successful attacks against a low EXP, poor performing(aircraft), Suprised group of opponents.

Luck would have a lot to do with it in the form of the pilot passing multiple SA (Situational Awareness) attribute and Follow on combat rolls where his initial advantage and the benefit of his high EXP and gunnery skills allowed several opportunities where he could execute Boom and Zoom tactics (high "tactics" skill) and be lethal to several different opponents. His high EXP and Gunnery skills would also mean he is efficient with his ammo, and uses short bursts rather than long bursts.

Other bonuses that could act in his favor are that his wingman stays with him through out the encounter and allows him to focus on the business at hand. This would depend greatly on his wingman's natural ability to fly perhaps modified by his SA attribute and EXP.

Just an idea...

[el cid again]

Agreed, but the potential should always be there. However small the likelyhood though, "Ace in a Day" DID happen in real life. The circumstances would have to be right. I'm talking the Sun and moon are aligned with Jupiter on the Equinox of a leap year, but nevertheless possible.

Freaky things do occur. There are cases of multiple - two or even three kills PER BURST in air combat! There is a case - on film! - of a US heavy shooting an enemy fighter - apparently killing the pilot - which fighter then is out of control and completely cuts the tail off a bomber in the formation - which bomber then is lost because there is no way to control it. It is not very damaged - and is in radio contact on the way down! Something like three parachutes appear. There is a case of a US bomber gunner getting a German medal! Because he survived landing without a parachute. Interrogated - they confirmed his story - finding his parachute cage in his rear gunner position. Lots of wierd things happen.

[el cid again]

Don't make me come back to the UK and subject your people to an American who drives on the correct side of the road regardless of what you blokes are doing.

Didn't they change that some years back?

[Hipper]

no Cid we still drive on the left !

[TheElf]

Bump

[jolly_pillager]

Think someone else mentioned it, but modeling all the aircraft's performance at different altitudes and speeds and then having the model track the altitude/speed of the aircraft in the fight might help.

Ammo limits on the airframes would be nice

More verbose messages during the replay so we know WTF is going on [:D]

Eliminate the Wall of CAP effect please. Yes I know about the Turkey SHoot...I also know that leakers (many leakers) made it through off of Okinawa...something unlikely to happen currently.

The ability to set Doctrine for airgroups would be nice...specifically a target priority list for them would put a quick end to the "CV flypaper" tactic for clearing LBA.

Mission specific bomb loadouts...and more bomb types (Incendiary, Parafrags, Tallboys/Daisy Cutters, etc. etc.).

Damaged planes should "rot" away in the jungle...by all accounts Ops losses are not nearly high enough

[zuikaku]

I like the idea of being able to pull pilot from one sqouadron and assigning him to another (of the same type ,ofcourse fighter to fighter). Thatway we would be able to create elite sqouadrons in mos endangered areas. I don't like the idea of unit experience. Keep the individual pilot experience!

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: jolly_pillager

Think someone else mentioned it, but modeling all the aircraft's performance at different altitudes and speeds and then having the model track the altitude/speed of the aircraft in the fight might help.

Ammo limits on the airframes would be nice

More verbose messages during the replay so we know WTF is going on [:D]

Eliminate the Wall of CAP effect please. Yes I know about the Turkey SHoot...I also know that leakers (many leakers) made it through off of Okinawa...something unlikely to happen currently.

The ability to set Doctrine for airgroups would be nice...specifically a target priority list for them would put a quick end to the "CV flypaper" tactic for clearing LBA.

Mission specific bomb loadouts...and more bomb types (Incendiary, Parafrags, Tallboys/Daisy Cutters, etc. etc.).

Damaged planes should "rot" away in the jungle...by all accounts Ops losses are not nearly high enough

All great ideas, and exactly what I am looking for from this thread. Keep'em coming.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: zuikaku

I like the idea of being able to pull pilot from one sqouadron and assigning him to another (of the same type ,ofcourse fighter to fighter). Thatway we would be able to create elite sqouadrons in mos endangered areas. I don't like the idea of unit experience. Keep the individual pilot experience!

I do too. I also like the idea of spending political points to designate a unit an "Elite" unit. Lots of benefits could be gained, from high EXP replacements to priority for supply and A/C.