I'm not doing to good here.
Additionally, maybe offer a scenerio like the one in the Book "1862". In this book, they take a historical incident in which a British mailboat was intercepted by a Union warship after it left Havana, Cuba. The Union forced the mailship to stop, and "kidnapped" 2 Confederate politicians headed for London.
The historical incident took place, but it was dealt with politically. In the book, the British use the incident to go to war with the Union, and form a semi-alliance with the South.
By the way, a great book, but it was definately written by a Yankee, as the South and the British combined get their buts whipped.
I'd also like to see start dates for games, like right after Vicksburg and Gettysburg were won by the North. Or better yet, have a new game start in a detailed battle of Gettysburg, and take it from there.
Other ideas:
have a list of the states and times you can get special units, like the Extra Billy Smiths or Ellsworths......
Wish List
Moderator: Gil R.
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General Quarters
- Posts: 1059
- Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:08 pm
RE: Wish List
Interesting ideas. And from a Dolphin's fan!
Keep 'em coming.
Keep 'em coming.
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dolphinsfan9910
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:14 am
RE: Wish List
This probably isn't the place to discuss this, I remember an overall Matrix wish list, but can't remember where it was.
I don't know if you guys talk with the other Matrix war games makers, because this game (FOF) is the absolute best thing I've played. At 33 years old, I've been playing video games since the "good ole days". I think my first "war game" was combat on the Atari 2600.
Anyhow, If more games offered both the strategic and tactical play that is offered in this game, I would likely buy them all. I absolutely love GG World at War. It has great strategic play, but the battles are automatic. If they went into player controled tactical battles like the ones in the old Panzer General, it would be so much better. That game kicked butt but had no strategic play.
I would also like to suggest that the Matrix games offer graphics on the tactical field like those in FOF. For some reason, I can't get into a game with Chit View graphics. I would love to play Conquest of the Agean or any other number of Matrix games, but I have this minor neurotic issue.
I don't know if you guys talk with the other Matrix war games makers, because this game (FOF) is the absolute best thing I've played. At 33 years old, I've been playing video games since the "good ole days". I think my first "war game" was combat on the Atari 2600.
Anyhow, If more games offered both the strategic and tactical play that is offered in this game, I would likely buy them all. I absolutely love GG World at War. It has great strategic play, but the battles are automatic. If they went into player controled tactical battles like the ones in the old Panzer General, it would be so much better. That game kicked butt but had no strategic play.
I would also like to suggest that the Matrix games offer graphics on the tactical field like those in FOF. For some reason, I can't get into a game with Chit View graphics. I would love to play Conquest of the Agean or any other number of Matrix games, but I have this minor neurotic issue.
Dolphinsfan
RE: Wish List
All,
Just jumping in quickly...been playing FoF for about 3 weeks now, and my main complaint is the whole generals tracking/movement system. Again, this is only a suggestion (and possibly a toggle), but is it possible to create a 1 star general inherantly with the creation of a unit? And when a div/corps/army unit is created, have the game ask for a suitable general from the immediately lower ranking group be promoted to command the unit? This way all units would have a suitably ranked general of some quality at all times.(I am no ACW historian in any sense, but I am assuming that all units would have had a commanding general, regardless) The player would still of course have the option to reassign/trade/demote/promote, but you would never be left in a situation where your groups are "leaderless" due to the wrong mix of general ranks in the area, nor have "extra" generals with no proper sized group to command.
Vacancies due to combat losses would be delt with immediately after the battle, with manditory promotions and new 1 stars being created to fill in the ranks.
Since this would require a immense number of generals (1 per unit after all) -- another option: one star generals would be ignored completely and just assumed to exist with the unit, only div command and higher would be represented with a named general with stats.
If you need to limit the availability of higher ranked generals(ie - USA has 2 4 star generals assigned to armies already), do it through limiting the ability to create additional container units.
Just jumping in quickly...been playing FoF for about 3 weeks now, and my main complaint is the whole generals tracking/movement system. Again, this is only a suggestion (and possibly a toggle), but is it possible to create a 1 star general inherantly with the creation of a unit? And when a div/corps/army unit is created, have the game ask for a suitable general from the immediately lower ranking group be promoted to command the unit? This way all units would have a suitably ranked general of some quality at all times.(I am no ACW historian in any sense, but I am assuming that all units would have had a commanding general, regardless) The player would still of course have the option to reassign/trade/demote/promote, but you would never be left in a situation where your groups are "leaderless" due to the wrong mix of general ranks in the area, nor have "extra" generals with no proper sized group to command.
Vacancies due to combat losses would be delt with immediately after the battle, with manditory promotions and new 1 stars being created to fill in the ranks.
Since this would require a immense number of generals (1 per unit after all) -- another option: one star generals would be ignored completely and just assumed to exist with the unit, only div command and higher would be represented with a named general with stats.
If you need to limit the availability of higher ranked generals(ie - USA has 2 4 star generals assigned to armies already), do it through limiting the ability to create additional container units.
RE: Wish List
What a wonderful idea dolphinsfan - being able to do battle on a historical battlefield from time to time.
But I am sure adding historical maps would be too time-consuming for the developers.
However, what if they let a handful of devoted volunteers take a crack at it...? Much like the general's biographies project...
I'm sure the community could produce some wonderful maps - and all the developers had to do was find a way to implement them.
Perhaps let the historical maps be triggered by things like date, place, army sizes etc.
Man that would be cool...
Norman
But I am sure adding historical maps would be too time-consuming for the developers.
However, what if they let a handful of devoted volunteers take a crack at it...? Much like the general's biographies project...
I'm sure the community could produce some wonderful maps - and all the developers had to do was find a way to implement them.
Perhaps let the historical maps be triggered by things like date, place, army sizes etc.
Man that would be cool...
Norman
regards,
Briny
Briny
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pixelpusher
- Posts: 685
- Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:46 am
RE: Wish List
ORIGINAL: briny_norman
But I am sure adding historical maps would be too time-consuming for the developers.
However, what if they let a handful of devoted volunteers take a crack at it...? Much like the general's biographies project... I'm sure the community could produce some wonderful maps - and all the developers had to do was find a way to implement them.
Man that would be cool...
Norman
Hey, this is actually something we're seriously talking about doing, for a Forge expansion pack! The historic maps would come up when you were in the right province, and you would choose between them. ie When you win the scouting check you could pick between 'forest' (random) 'swamp' (random) and 'Gettysburg' (a loaded map). Having a community-based project could be an excellent way to do maps, because it would allow people to do whichever areas they found interesting. We could set up a voting thing to rate the maps before they'd be distributed. We'd also need some way to make sure that everybody playing head to head has the same mapset synched up.
Some of the battlefields don't quite fit onto a HW map, but maybe we could do them in chunks or something. ie Wilderness1, Wilderness2, etc.
We've also been thinking about having a Hexwar-only mode, so you could play historic maps / battles in sequence, for a score. Like a ladder.
Anyway, great ideas, guys!
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cerosenberg
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 4:34 pm
RE: Wish List
Railroads and the war
"...professionals study logistics." I am new and may have missed points in the manual. I apologize if anything I mention has been incorporated.
The American Civil War was dominated by logistics; hence, railroads, rivers and seas. Not only did the south have fewer railway miles but significant problems in its infrastructure. While Northern lines used an "I" beam, southern used a "J" beam. The "J" beam limited speed and weight, slower with less capacity. The Union government encouraged and forced different railroads to connect their lines, esp in cities. Southern military units would often have to disenbark and transfer to a new train when moving between railraods. I imagine these features are incorporated into the railway points.
In an historical senerio the CSA should not be able to increase railroad points. The South did not lay one new mile of track though they did occasionally move track from one place to another. More important, the South did not have a single factory able to build locomotives. Is this or can this be implemented in a senerio?
These limitations are important in supply. The primary military (as opposed to psychological) effect of Sherman's march through Georgia was the destruction of the railraods. The actual destruction of supplies was minimal compared to the stores which existed in the whole state. The destruction of the railroad kept all those supplies from going anywhere useful to the war effort. Is there any way to eliminate railroads? If eliminated the Union should be able to repair railroads, which the South could not (see above).
"...professionals study logistics." I am new and may have missed points in the manual. I apologize if anything I mention has been incorporated.
The American Civil War was dominated by logistics; hence, railroads, rivers and seas. Not only did the south have fewer railway miles but significant problems in its infrastructure. While Northern lines used an "I" beam, southern used a "J" beam. The "J" beam limited speed and weight, slower with less capacity. The Union government encouraged and forced different railroads to connect their lines, esp in cities. Southern military units would often have to disenbark and transfer to a new train when moving between railraods. I imagine these features are incorporated into the railway points.
In an historical senerio the CSA should not be able to increase railroad points. The South did not lay one new mile of track though they did occasionally move track from one place to another. More important, the South did not have a single factory able to build locomotives. Is this or can this be implemented in a senerio?
These limitations are important in supply. The primary military (as opposed to psychological) effect of Sherman's march through Georgia was the destruction of the railraods. The actual destruction of supplies was minimal compared to the stores which existed in the whole state. The destruction of the railroad kept all those supplies from going anywhere useful to the war effort. Is there any way to eliminate railroads? If eliminated the Union should be able to repair railroads, which the South could not (see above).
RE: Wish List
cerosenberg,
You should start this in a separate thread, lest this thread suddenly turn into a debate about railroad capacities.
You should start this in a separate thread, lest this thread suddenly turn into a debate about railroad capacities.
Michael Jordan plays ball. Charles Manson kills people. I torment eager potential customers by not sharing screenshots of "Brother Against Brother." Everyone has a talent.
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cerosenberg
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 4:34 pm
RE: Wish List
Dear Gil,
Sorry, I was not trying to strat a new debate. The "wishes" are to be able to eliminate railroads and repair them. The rest was merely the reasons behind the request. I should be happy to start a new thread if there is any interest.
Sorry, I was not trying to strat a new debate. The "wishes" are to be able to eliminate railroads and repair them. The rest was merely the reasons behind the request. I should be happy to start a new thread if there is any interest.
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dolphinsfan9910
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:14 am
RE: Wish List
Something like that might make sense.
Lets say I'm CSA and had Kentucky, made and nice little run into Ohio, but viewed on the horizon a larger and more formidable force coming my way. I would at least damage the train tracks to stop my enemy from using it. You couldn't "destroy" rails in the entire province, but you sure could damage them.
Of course the ability for the North to repair rails would be much higher due to steel producing towns like Pittsburg, Baltimore, New York, Boston, and so on.
Lets say I'm CSA and had Kentucky, made and nice little run into Ohio, but viewed on the horizon a larger and more formidable force coming my way. I would at least damage the train tracks to stop my enemy from using it. You couldn't "destroy" rails in the entire province, but you sure could damage them.
Of course the ability for the North to repair rails would be much higher due to steel producing towns like Pittsburg, Baltimore, New York, Boston, and so on.
Dolphinsfan
RE: Wish List
Add some generals for foreign armies that show up in FoF. Seperate funds would be nice also.
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General Quarters
- Posts: 1059
- Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:08 pm
RE: Wish List
5-star generals:
This wish was prompted by one of the questions on the general forum below. It would be neat if a 5-star general could affect combat in adjacent provinces as well. I think that is realistic. Grant, after Shiloh, was commanding forces in Memphis, western Tenn, northern Miss and northern Alabama, not to mention western Ky. And that was as a 4-star. Sitting in front of Richmond, he in effect exercised field command of all or almost all Union forces in Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina. (Yeh, I know Meade "commanded" the AoP, but really Grant was calling the shots.) Same with Lee on the other side and, though he didn't do much, J. E. Johnston was called to a 5-type role in the West during Vicksburg.
This wish was prompted by one of the questions on the general forum below. It would be neat if a 5-star general could affect combat in adjacent provinces as well. I think that is realistic. Grant, after Shiloh, was commanding forces in Memphis, western Tenn, northern Miss and northern Alabama, not to mention western Ky. And that was as a 4-star. Sitting in front of Richmond, he in effect exercised field command of all or almost all Union forces in Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina. (Yeh, I know Meade "commanded" the AoP, but really Grant was calling the shots.) Same with Lee on the other side and, though he didn't do much, J. E. Johnston was called to a 5-type role in the West during Vicksburg.
RE: Wish List
More on 5-stars...
while we are wishing upon a 5 star... [:D]
I wish if you put a 5 Star in an Army Container with a 4 star that four star would still provide his benifits for things like training and so forth. I find it a bit lame to have to leave the 5 star outside of the Army's of the Potomac. I would prefer to group him in with an army container, retain his benifits to the other contatiners, and be able to move with the container he's with. I just had Grant left alone in VA when the two army's he was with decided to retreat... but if I had put him in one of those armies, the four star there would have been wasted.
There needs to be a way to get the benifits of a four and five star in one container.
Dude
ps... in regards to the post above about 5 stars and surrounding provinces... it's not to unrealistic considering that Grant relied on the Telegraph a great deal at times. Perhaps if there is a telegraph (or RR) then perhaps the 5 star's bonus could be expanded?
while we are wishing upon a 5 star... [:D]
I wish if you put a 5 Star in an Army Container with a 4 star that four star would still provide his benifits for things like training and so forth. I find it a bit lame to have to leave the 5 star outside of the Army's of the Potomac. I would prefer to group him in with an army container, retain his benifits to the other contatiners, and be able to move with the container he's with. I just had Grant left alone in VA when the two army's he was with decided to retreat... but if I had put him in one of those armies, the four star there would have been wasted.
There needs to be a way to get the benifits of a four and five star in one container.
Dude
ps... in regards to the post above about 5 stars and surrounding provinces... it's not to unrealistic considering that Grant relied on the Telegraph a great deal at times. Perhaps if there is a telegraph (or RR) then perhaps the 5 star's bonus could be expanded?
“Ifs defeated the Confederates…” U.S.Grant
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jkBluesman
- Posts: 797
- Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:48 pm
RE: Wish List
But in what respect expanded? Grant used the telegraph to send orders, but he could never give some sort of combat bonus. Even his initiative would not effect army movements as some commanders would not move as quickly as expected from them (e.g. Thomas in Nashville, Sigel in the Valley).
"War is the field of chance."
Carl von Clausewitz
Carl von Clausewitz
RE: Wish List
In reading Longstreet's memoirs on Malvern Hill. he mentions the use of the Union's siege guns in the battle. currently this is not allowed in the game in either Detailed or quick battles. I would like to see them used in the detailed battles. In the same battle and in Shiloh and probably others, gunboats were also used to augment the artillery. this could be possible in detailed battles also if the maps allowed navigable rivers. Of course this would only occur in river provinces. On the seacoast, ships and frigates could be used in coastal battles or sieges.
Col Saito: "Don't speak to me of rules! This is war! It is not a game of cricket!"
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Gray_Lensman
- Posts: 640
- Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 3:40 am
RE: Wish List
Provide some way to mark (designate) which general is in overall command of a container when several (same rank) generals are assigned to that container, instead of it being determined alphabetically. This would allow players more freedom in using the 1000 generals as (extras) for brigade commanders in HW if they so desire.
You've GOT to hold them back!
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LuckyCJS1001
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:59 pm
RE: Wish List
The ability to assign Generals to Brigades would be good instead of them being randomly assigned in DC/HW// ==UserScript== // @name MultiPopup Main Functions File // @namespace http://www.hesido.com // @version 2.09 // @date 2005-08-18 // @author Emrah BASKAYA // @description Tooltip Replacement: Replaces Browser Default Tooltips with CSS stylable ones and allows you to customize the information displayed in it and the delay for tooltips. // @include * // ==/UserScript== // Licence Information: /* MultiPopup V2.09 Main Functions File Tooltip Replacement Script Emrah BASKAYA (hesido - www.hesido.com) Detailed info can be found at: http://www.hesido.com You cannot use this code for commercial purposes without permission of the author. You are not allowed to earn money from this script or any work that is derived from this script. Free to use for non-commercial purposes. A link to www.hesido.com is most welcome, in a page on your site, if you are using it for your website. 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-
Gray_Lensman
- Posts: 640
- Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 3:40 am
RE: Wish List
LuckyCJS1001
I doubt if they are gonna redo the game engine for Generals to be assigned directly to brigades, they've already said as much elsewhere, so the best we can hope for is at least a way to control who is in command of a container when multiple generals same rank generals are assigned to it. That way, we can at least disperse them where we wish upon initial HW starting turn.
I doubt if they are gonna redo the game engine for Generals to be assigned directly to brigades, they've already said as much elsewhere, so the best we can hope for is at least a way to control who is in command of a container when multiple generals same rank generals are assigned to it. That way, we can at least disperse them where we wish upon initial HW starting turn.
You've GOT to hold them back!
RE: Wish List
Esteemed friends:
I've just spent the last little while perusing the info available on this new American Civil War game, AACW.
To be honest, I feel sad. No, in fact I feel downright gloomy. I struggle to control myself, but I can feel the power of my outburst ready to explode out of me despite me literally trying to clamp my jaws together with BOTH HANDS:
WHEN IN THE WORLD WILL GAME DESIGNERS STOP MAKING GAMES DESIGNED FOR ADULTS LOOK LIKE CARTOONS???
*ahem*
(Pardon me while I straighten my tie and regain my composure.)
I'm sure AACW is a fine game, and I'm equally sure I'll be buying it sometime in the not-too-distant future.
But it's the same thing for me with AACW as it is for FoF, and for that matter Civ IV and countless other games. These creations may contain subtleties of gameplay as yet unheard-of in the world of wargaming. They may incorporate the very cream of research of LEGIONS of doctorates in history of the various time-periods they endeavor to recreate. But gentlemen, I beg you, let go your seeming obsession with childish little figurines and storybook houses, with garish primary-colored terrain and cartoonish displays! I literally become ill from hours of staring at second-grade renditions of human forms and broad formless swashes of screaming landscape colors. I feel as though I have been living in some Looney Toons nightmare; Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck and Wile E Coyote et al.
You have created masterpieces of simulations and raised them to a level of an art form! Why then, do they still retain so much crudity in their art?
(I remember loading Civ into my computer for the first time. I didn't know whether to retch or laugh hysterically. "Oh, look," I said to myself, "aren't those little forts and barbarians so CUTE? I think I'll send this off to my grandson. He's eight. He may enjoy it for awhile before he hits PUBERTY.")
Forgive me friends, gentlemen, fellow enthusiasts. But there's only so much an adult can take. Hat in hand, I bow most humbly and beseech you all: PLEASE, RAISE THE BAR.
With abiding admiration,
Odox
I've just spent the last little while perusing the info available on this new American Civil War game, AACW.
To be honest, I feel sad. No, in fact I feel downright gloomy. I struggle to control myself, but I can feel the power of my outburst ready to explode out of me despite me literally trying to clamp my jaws together with BOTH HANDS:
WHEN IN THE WORLD WILL GAME DESIGNERS STOP MAKING GAMES DESIGNED FOR ADULTS LOOK LIKE CARTOONS???
*ahem*
(Pardon me while I straighten my tie and regain my composure.)
I'm sure AACW is a fine game, and I'm equally sure I'll be buying it sometime in the not-too-distant future.
But it's the same thing for me with AACW as it is for FoF, and for that matter Civ IV and countless other games. These creations may contain subtleties of gameplay as yet unheard-of in the world of wargaming. They may incorporate the very cream of research of LEGIONS of doctorates in history of the various time-periods they endeavor to recreate. But gentlemen, I beg you, let go your seeming obsession with childish little figurines and storybook houses, with garish primary-colored terrain and cartoonish displays! I literally become ill from hours of staring at second-grade renditions of human forms and broad formless swashes of screaming landscape colors. I feel as though I have been living in some Looney Toons nightmare; Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck and Wile E Coyote et al.
You have created masterpieces of simulations and raised them to a level of an art form! Why then, do they still retain so much crudity in their art?
(I remember loading Civ into my computer for the first time. I didn't know whether to retch or laugh hysterically. "Oh, look," I said to myself, "aren't those little forts and barbarians so CUTE? I think I'll send this off to my grandson. He's eight. He may enjoy it for awhile before he hits PUBERTY.")
Forgive me friends, gentlemen, fellow enthusiasts. But there's only so much an adult can take. Hat in hand, I bow most humbly and beseech you all: PLEASE, RAISE THE BAR.
With abiding admiration,
Odox
RE: Wish List
To the Esteemed Members of the FoF Community, greetings:
It is neither my desire nor my habit to want to appear unceasingly servile or scraping in my manner, nor is there any private attempt at mockery or irony, intended or otherwise, in any of the posts with which I have contributed to this forum. On this you have my word.
But, unfortunately, I seem to have 'gone off the deep end' as it were in my post to the "What's the Dif....?" thread in another section of the forum. I have reproduced it in full above, cognizant now that perhaps I should have refrained from posting it there, and for this you have my my most sincere apologies. And as if this is not undoubtedly offense enough, it is with extreme regret and chagrin that I confess fully that the tone of my posting above is wholly despondent and unhelpful. I admit to a moment of weakness when confronted with what has been to me a singular and monumental failure within the majority of the wargaming community for at least decades. I fully admit my error in submitting the previous post, I am painfully aware that such 'contributions' serve no beneficial purpose for the good of the community, and I am with this second post attempting to rectify my failings upon my very honor. I do emplore my esteemed fellow enthusiasts to please understand I am sincerely well-meaning, but often clumsy. I therefore place myself at your mercy without reservation and entrust my reputation and dignity upon the great magnaminity I find unceasingly present within your charitable natures.
Gentlemen, although my outburst is inconscionable and obviously does so little to advance our common interests in any conceivable way, I DO hope at the very least you will understand the seemingly interminable length of time under which I have chafed and smarted from this hobby-wide, industry-wide, and perhaps even (dare I be so bold) worldwide failure.
Furthermore, and it brings me no little pleasure to say this here, undoubtedly my tongue was loosed and my passion born NOT ONLY due to the exceptionally high quality revealed in the members of the 'laity' (so to speak) which people this forum, BUT ALSO by the simply incomparable professionals whose genius and dedication brought us FoF in the first place. I cannot begin to emphasize how truly unique, how truly remarkable and rare, and indeed truly wondrous it is to come across such men of high order as yourselves. And I have the experience of my many, many years in this hobby, in this industry and my now lengthy walk within the world at large from which to speak. It is revealed to me now, won from the grace of hindsight, that the unguardedness and spontaniety with which I first uttered my bitter and painful remonstrations was prompted by NOTHING LESS than the profound respect and admiration I've come to feel for the incomparably responsive and high-striving professionals which I've found here, incalculably complemented by a loyal and highly-skilled community of volunteers. It was within the undeniable excellence of this environment I felt intuitively I could give voice to my conscience at last.
My previous post, with all it's bile and criticism and caustic indignities, nevertheless DOES come sufficiently close to expressing what I believe is one of this pursuit's, this industry's, in POINT of FACT one of OUR most persistent and most grievous errors in judgement, of NEGLECT: to lift the beauty, the appearance, the otherwise graphical presentation of these geuninely astounding masterpieces of technical skill and inspired imagination up to the level which your creations so obviously DESERVE, even DEMAND.
I beg your indulgence in considering the following example: if your COMPUTER script were to be compared to a MANU-script, you have achieved a level of prose, even of POETRY, worthy of TOLKIEN, of SHAKESPEARE, even of HOMER; yet you have permitted the most mundane, pedestrian, amateurish and unimaginative boor the enormous responsibility of illustrating it's margins and cover and facepages! The very spirits of art and science which have animated you and which animate US, REBEL at this! Friends... gentlemen... people who I've come to respect so highly... with all the brotherly camaraderie and unabashed admiration I can muster... this is an embarassment.
Is there not one among you that senses within your higher mind, within your highest calling to your art, your unique and rarified highest awareness of your PLAINLY stellar potentialities, that this immaculate, jewelled work of yours is oddly, discongruently delivered up wrapped in Batman bedsheets to the world? Does anyone SEE this GRIEVOUS DISCONNECT?
Then let me be the first perhaps to point to the Emperor's royal personage and mention that those are probably not the jewels that His Highness intended to display. The fact is, with a few exceptions I will share with you in a moment, the physical beauty, the visible ARTISTRY of the wargame/simulation has failed to keep up in any respectable way with the sheer complexity and scope of what these truly impressive creations have achieved. And it is a damnable, damnable shame.
I have two small groups of games to share with you that might, with even a small amount of consideration and open-mindedness on your part, illustrate reasonably well what might be possible for all of us to be enjoying if beauty is at all allowed to be a partner with function in this realm.
The first is somewhat dated, and is a good example of what can happen when a pure idea loses it's way and surrenders it's purity to more gross considerations. If you remember the COSSACKS series of computer games, you may have taken the time to experiment with the surprisingly excellent do-it-yourself scenario generator included with two in the series, BACK TO WAR and EUROPEAN WARS. That little program came equipped with often dozens of soil, vegetation, building material and terrain features that, when put in the hands of a competent artiste, was capable of creating landscape scenes and vistas comparable to many extant works of art. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the more long-term attraction for the game is primarily to be found in the versatility and potential of it's modding tool.
The second, and the ones for me which really speaks for what can be done for the visual appearance and beauty of these games we love so well, is first the hexless, topographically superb and visually stunning battlefields offered with the Sid Meier Civil War series. To my mind, these games provide a mute embarassment for the current crop of wargames, They are, after all, so OLD. Since this was possible back THEN, just consider what may be possible NOW; but is being neglected or overlooked for no good reason that I can discover.
The last, and best for me, is the example of unmatched expression of form and beauty provided for us by Mad Minute's TAKE COMMAND: SECOND MANASSAS. If you've never seen the game in play, or taken the time to literally glide over the battlefields like a bird on the wing, you are probably missing out on one of the best renditions of actual rolling hills, cultivated fields and pristine meadows that (IMHO) have every been presented in a wargame/simulation format. With just a half a grain of imagination, the renderings of the forests and fields almost appear real. When games like FoF, due to their glaring, simplistic graphics and annoying cartoonish screens begin to tire my eyes (and whet my need and desire for natural beauty), this is the simulation I most turn to. And I do so without apology.
I want to thank you for allowing me to attempt to atone for my earlier questionable behavior. I am also in your debt that you have permitted me to lay my case before you, and for the generosity and patience with which you have deigned to consider this and many other ideas for improvement of what is our common passion, our common bond. I am admittedly not gifted with technical expertise, vast command of historical theory or detail, or even in possession of a mind which grasps high concepts very easily or very well. But I DO appreciate beauty in all the many forms that beauty can take; whether it be manifested in the physical world, or in the moral and spiritual world we are all ALSO co-sojourners within.
With blessings, grace and peace, and
with brotherly camaraderie and friendship,
I remain your most devoted
Odox
It is neither my desire nor my habit to want to appear unceasingly servile or scraping in my manner, nor is there any private attempt at mockery or irony, intended or otherwise, in any of the posts with which I have contributed to this forum. On this you have my word.
But, unfortunately, I seem to have 'gone off the deep end' as it were in my post to the "What's the Dif....?" thread in another section of the forum. I have reproduced it in full above, cognizant now that perhaps I should have refrained from posting it there, and for this you have my my most sincere apologies. And as if this is not undoubtedly offense enough, it is with extreme regret and chagrin that I confess fully that the tone of my posting above is wholly despondent and unhelpful. I admit to a moment of weakness when confronted with what has been to me a singular and monumental failure within the majority of the wargaming community for at least decades. I fully admit my error in submitting the previous post, I am painfully aware that such 'contributions' serve no beneficial purpose for the good of the community, and I am with this second post attempting to rectify my failings upon my very honor. I do emplore my esteemed fellow enthusiasts to please understand I am sincerely well-meaning, but often clumsy. I therefore place myself at your mercy without reservation and entrust my reputation and dignity upon the great magnaminity I find unceasingly present within your charitable natures.
Gentlemen, although my outburst is inconscionable and obviously does so little to advance our common interests in any conceivable way, I DO hope at the very least you will understand the seemingly interminable length of time under which I have chafed and smarted from this hobby-wide, industry-wide, and perhaps even (dare I be so bold) worldwide failure.
Furthermore, and it brings me no little pleasure to say this here, undoubtedly my tongue was loosed and my passion born NOT ONLY due to the exceptionally high quality revealed in the members of the 'laity' (so to speak) which people this forum, BUT ALSO by the simply incomparable professionals whose genius and dedication brought us FoF in the first place. I cannot begin to emphasize how truly unique, how truly remarkable and rare, and indeed truly wondrous it is to come across such men of high order as yourselves. And I have the experience of my many, many years in this hobby, in this industry and my now lengthy walk within the world at large from which to speak. It is revealed to me now, won from the grace of hindsight, that the unguardedness and spontaniety with which I first uttered my bitter and painful remonstrations was prompted by NOTHING LESS than the profound respect and admiration I've come to feel for the incomparably responsive and high-striving professionals which I've found here, incalculably complemented by a loyal and highly-skilled community of volunteers. It was within the undeniable excellence of this environment I felt intuitively I could give voice to my conscience at last.
My previous post, with all it's bile and criticism and caustic indignities, nevertheless DOES come sufficiently close to expressing what I believe is one of this pursuit's, this industry's, in POINT of FACT one of OUR most persistent and most grievous errors in judgement, of NEGLECT: to lift the beauty, the appearance, the otherwise graphical presentation of these geuninely astounding masterpieces of technical skill and inspired imagination up to the level which your creations so obviously DESERVE, even DEMAND.
I beg your indulgence in considering the following example: if your COMPUTER script were to be compared to a MANU-script, you have achieved a level of prose, even of POETRY, worthy of TOLKIEN, of SHAKESPEARE, even of HOMER; yet you have permitted the most mundane, pedestrian, amateurish and unimaginative boor the enormous responsibility of illustrating it's margins and cover and facepages! The very spirits of art and science which have animated you and which animate US, REBEL at this! Friends... gentlemen... people who I've come to respect so highly... with all the brotherly camaraderie and unabashed admiration I can muster... this is an embarassment.
Is there not one among you that senses within your higher mind, within your highest calling to your art, your unique and rarified highest awareness of your PLAINLY stellar potentialities, that this immaculate, jewelled work of yours is oddly, discongruently delivered up wrapped in Batman bedsheets to the world? Does anyone SEE this GRIEVOUS DISCONNECT?
Then let me be the first perhaps to point to the Emperor's royal personage and mention that those are probably not the jewels that His Highness intended to display. The fact is, with a few exceptions I will share with you in a moment, the physical beauty, the visible ARTISTRY of the wargame/simulation has failed to keep up in any respectable way with the sheer complexity and scope of what these truly impressive creations have achieved. And it is a damnable, damnable shame.
I have two small groups of games to share with you that might, with even a small amount of consideration and open-mindedness on your part, illustrate reasonably well what might be possible for all of us to be enjoying if beauty is at all allowed to be a partner with function in this realm.
The first is somewhat dated, and is a good example of what can happen when a pure idea loses it's way and surrenders it's purity to more gross considerations. If you remember the COSSACKS series of computer games, you may have taken the time to experiment with the surprisingly excellent do-it-yourself scenario generator included with two in the series, BACK TO WAR and EUROPEAN WARS. That little program came equipped with often dozens of soil, vegetation, building material and terrain features that, when put in the hands of a competent artiste, was capable of creating landscape scenes and vistas comparable to many extant works of art. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the more long-term attraction for the game is primarily to be found in the versatility and potential of it's modding tool.
The second, and the ones for me which really speaks for what can be done for the visual appearance and beauty of these games we love so well, is first the hexless, topographically superb and visually stunning battlefields offered with the Sid Meier Civil War series. To my mind, these games provide a mute embarassment for the current crop of wargames, They are, after all, so OLD. Since this was possible back THEN, just consider what may be possible NOW; but is being neglected or overlooked for no good reason that I can discover.
The last, and best for me, is the example of unmatched expression of form and beauty provided for us by Mad Minute's TAKE COMMAND: SECOND MANASSAS. If you've never seen the game in play, or taken the time to literally glide over the battlefields like a bird on the wing, you are probably missing out on one of the best renditions of actual rolling hills, cultivated fields and pristine meadows that (IMHO) have every been presented in a wargame/simulation format. With just a half a grain of imagination, the renderings of the forests and fields almost appear real. When games like FoF, due to their glaring, simplistic graphics and annoying cartoonish screens begin to tire my eyes (and whet my need and desire for natural beauty), this is the simulation I most turn to. And I do so without apology.
I want to thank you for allowing me to attempt to atone for my earlier questionable behavior. I am also in your debt that you have permitted me to lay my case before you, and for the generosity and patience with which you have deigned to consider this and many other ideas for improvement of what is our common passion, our common bond. I am admittedly not gifted with technical expertise, vast command of historical theory or detail, or even in possession of a mind which grasps high concepts very easily or very well. But I DO appreciate beauty in all the many forms that beauty can take; whether it be manifested in the physical world, or in the moral and spiritual world we are all ALSO co-sojourners within.
With blessings, grace and peace, and
with brotherly camaraderie and friendship,
I remain your most devoted
Odox