Fall Weiss II - WIE 14.0 - (Ready for Download)
RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
I suspect it will need another revision once the corrections are made in the next official update.
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- crispy131313
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RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
Yes the next patch will mean I’ll probaly have to update. I think it will be just tinkering with balance, any input on if the AI is too hard/easy or some unbalanced play in PBEM especially on the Eastern Front would be welcome.
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RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
Late 1942 and I have Leningrad, Odessa, Kiev, Minsk, Dnep and Moscow and Soviet morale is still 84%.
Needs some adjustments still IMO.
They have a wall of tech'd up IW3 units two deep along much of Southern front. Kinda crazy.
I really think that to have truly "dynamic" morale for the USSR they need a bigger drop up front and upon the capture of Leningrad and Moscow and then a strong increase over the course of 1943.
Keep up the good work.
Needs some adjustments still IMO.
They have a wall of tech'd up IW3 units two deep along much of Southern front. Kinda crazy.
I really think that to have truly "dynamic" morale for the USSR they need a bigger drop up front and upon the capture of Leningrad and Moscow and then a strong increase over the course of 1943.
Keep up the good work.
- crispy131313
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RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
Hi David,
I finally got far enough into a 3.2 solo match where I can see where the USSR stands at the end of 41'. I've also compared historical results in this picture, and they are pretty close. At this point in the war I think USSR needs to recover morale, they had dropped to 77% at the end of 41' and now are at 92%, well behind a normally very high Germany, it is the gap between Germany who is usually around 110%-115% at this time that I want to use as a benchmark, not where USSR is on a scale of 100 but how much of a gap they are behind Germany. USSR won't significantly have a chance to bump morale again until late 42', so they will still be well behind in 42 and bleeding'.
For comparative sake I'll note that Poland fell in 2 turns, Paris occupied in June 40' (invaded Low Countries last turn in April) and I was able to defeat the British in Egypt, so it has been a pretty efficient game thus far, without much hiccups. I launched Barbarossa final turn of May 41'.

I finally got far enough into a 3.2 solo match where I can see where the USSR stands at the end of 41'. I've also compared historical results in this picture, and they are pretty close. At this point in the war I think USSR needs to recover morale, they had dropped to 77% at the end of 41' and now are at 92%, well behind a normally very high Germany, it is the gap between Germany who is usually around 110%-115% at this time that I want to use as a benchmark, not where USSR is on a scale of 100 but how much of a gap they are behind Germany. USSR won't significantly have a chance to bump morale again until late 42', so they will still be well behind in 42 and bleeding'.
For comparative sake I'll note that Poland fell in 2 turns, Paris occupied in June 40' (invaded Low Countries last turn in April) and I was able to defeat the British in Egypt, so it has been a pretty efficient game thus far, without much hiccups. I launched Barbarossa final turn of May 41'.

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- crispy131313
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RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
I also found a bad script.. when USSR joins the war there are some initial NM scripts for both Germany and USSR that should fire, but I accidentally set Lwow to be in Allied hands so this usually doesn't occur at turn end, so might fire later in the game! Will fix soon, in solo matches this can be checked off in the scripts (options) under NM (#1 USSR Fears War with Germany, and #2 German Propoganda Ensures A swift Victory in the East)
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RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
Upcoming changes for version 3.3
If there are any known errors please let me know, as I will likely upload before end of the week.
- USSR begins with Anti-Tank I
- Removed USSR Anti-Tank Chit
- Tank Divisions will have 10% Demoralization attack value (increased from 0%)
- Fixed German and Soviet NM bonus/penalty upon beginning of Barbarossa
- Amended Anti-Tank base soft/hard attack value to 1.5 (from 1)
- Amended Anti-Tank soft/hard attack value increments from Anti-Tank Research from 1 per level to 0.5 per level
- Increased USA mobilization from Pearl Harbor from 15-20% to 25%-30%
- Added British Empire Reinforcements in Canada upon successful Sealion (Axis control Southern Britain)
- Added scripts for the British Empire Reinforcements to support US attempt to liberate UK
- New UK Decision Event for Operation Sledgehammer or Operation Overlord (will only fire if conditions are met early 43')
- Some amendments to NM events on the Eastern Front around the end of 41'
- Added popup for Sweden (leans to Axis) after receiving military aircraft from Italy
- Fixed Vichy France Joins Axis text
- Variable Decision Event for Vichy France to join the Axis will only occur if UK does not recognize Vichy France
- Removed German chit in Advanced Tanks
- Reduced German Garrisons build limits by 2
- Reduced German Infantry Corps build limits by 1
- Reduced German Infantry Division build limits by 4
- Increased German Infantry Army build limits by 1
- UK will no longer have the opportunity to send Lease Lease to UK if the Turkish Straits were occupied by USSR
- New German Morale penalty to occur once the Allies have established themselves in France, prior to taking Paris
- New German Decision Event to prepare for Soviet winter 42'
- If Moscow is occupied the USSR will transfer additional forces from Siberia
If there are any known errors please let me know, as I will likely upload before end of the week.
- USSR begins with Anti-Tank I
- Removed USSR Anti-Tank Chit
- Tank Divisions will have 10% Demoralization attack value (increased from 0%)
- Fixed German and Soviet NM bonus/penalty upon beginning of Barbarossa
- Amended Anti-Tank base soft/hard attack value to 1.5 (from 1)
- Amended Anti-Tank soft/hard attack value increments from Anti-Tank Research from 1 per level to 0.5 per level
- Increased USA mobilization from Pearl Harbor from 15-20% to 25%-30%
- Added British Empire Reinforcements in Canada upon successful Sealion (Axis control Southern Britain)
- Added scripts for the British Empire Reinforcements to support US attempt to liberate UK
- New UK Decision Event for Operation Sledgehammer or Operation Overlord (will only fire if conditions are met early 43')
- Some amendments to NM events on the Eastern Front around the end of 41'
- Added popup for Sweden (leans to Axis) after receiving military aircraft from Italy
- Fixed Vichy France Joins Axis text
- Variable Decision Event for Vichy France to join the Axis will only occur if UK does not recognize Vichy France
- Removed German chit in Advanced Tanks
- Reduced German Garrisons build limits by 2
- Reduced German Infantry Corps build limits by 1
- Reduced German Infantry Division build limits by 4
- Increased German Infantry Army build limits by 1
- UK will no longer have the opportunity to send Lease Lease to UK if the Turkish Straits were occupied by USSR
- New German Morale penalty to occur once the Allies have established themselves in France, prior to taking Paris
- New German Decision Event to prepare for Soviet winter 42'
- If Moscow is occupied the USSR will transfer additional forces from Siberia
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RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
Crispy,
Not sure if this is a result of your modding or the basic game but here are a few discrepancies I experienced in a recent play through as the allies versus the AI using your latest Fall Weiss 2 West theater 2.0 following an Axis versus AI game. Here is what I witnessed:
1). Allied game: The AI used diplomacy on Greece. When the percentage went to 8% Axis, Greece joined the Axis. This is not the first time. Greece turned in an earlier game at 3%. It seems as soon as Greece goes positive at all to the Axis side it flips and joins the axis. Seems unreasonable but must be a DE in the game. I think the value should be much higher as it's hard to believe Greece would join the Axis when even Bulgaria is not Axis and there is no immediate threat.
2). Allied game: While not crippling, the flipping of Greece always makes Yugoslavia join the Axis in the next turn with the "Yugoslavia is surrounded by axis countries and thus joins the Axis." The problem is that it flips whether it's surrounded or not. In the last case, Bulgaria (which borders Yugoslavia) was Soviet leaning by almost 50% and was certainly not in the axis camp but Yugoslavia flipped anyway. While one could make a case for a Serbian or a Croatian state breaking away from Yugoslavia as an independent nation, I don't believe all of Yugoslavia would flip. I think a "break up" of the Yugoslavian state into it's WW1 factions would be much more likely (Montenegro, Macedonia, Serbia, 'croatia') with some land going to Albania. A state of Croatia would form as an Axis satellite but a Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia would remain neutral/ pro allied. Greece would get some land as well as Albania.
3). Axis game: The AI will move regular transports (NOT amphibious transports) into a Port with less than 5 supply and unload in the same move. This is not possible for a player who has to wait until the following turn to unload. I saw this when I had troops next to Bengazi with port supply 1. The allies had Bengazi, I was just adjacent ready to 'obtain' it the next turn. I saw the transports move to the port (since I was adjacent), the units in Bengazi move one hex out, and the transports unload into the city hex.
4). Axis game: The Soviets had obtained infantry advancement 3 in January 1942. I tried to duplicate this in my next Allied player versus AI game. Even if I went straight for that improvement ignoring all else, it was impossible as a player to even get to level 2 by mid 42. I realize breakthroughs could modify the rate to obtain but that would require investment in Spying which was only 1 at the end of the Allied AI game for the Soviets. Realistically, this achievement ought not be possible until 44 at the earliest. It's akin to German jets in 42. I think a review of research is in order.
5). Axis game: No kidding, Malta hindered Axis supply TWICE EVERY TURN for the duration. Unbelievable. As the Allied versus the Axis AI in my next game, the Malta event probably fired ONCE every 3-4 turns. The same happened with the Crete event. Crete hindered supply EVERY TURN when I was an allied player and only fired twice at all while I was an Axis player.
6). The USA was all over Kuwait in 1941 before the USA was even at war. Seems the AI transported all the USA units to the Persian Gulf pre war and landed in Kuwait. That is strange since USA units can't even land in Britain prior to war entry.
7). Greek partisans kept attacking supply even after the Allies liberated the country.
Again, not sure how much of this is related to your mod or the vanilla game. Either way, perhaps you can address some of this in your next Mod update. Thank you for listening and providing such an improved version of the game to play.
Not sure if this is a result of your modding or the basic game but here are a few discrepancies I experienced in a recent play through as the allies versus the AI using your latest Fall Weiss 2 West theater 2.0 following an Axis versus AI game. Here is what I witnessed:
1). Allied game: The AI used diplomacy on Greece. When the percentage went to 8% Axis, Greece joined the Axis. This is not the first time. Greece turned in an earlier game at 3%. It seems as soon as Greece goes positive at all to the Axis side it flips and joins the axis. Seems unreasonable but must be a DE in the game. I think the value should be much higher as it's hard to believe Greece would join the Axis when even Bulgaria is not Axis and there is no immediate threat.
2). Allied game: While not crippling, the flipping of Greece always makes Yugoslavia join the Axis in the next turn with the "Yugoslavia is surrounded by axis countries and thus joins the Axis." The problem is that it flips whether it's surrounded or not. In the last case, Bulgaria (which borders Yugoslavia) was Soviet leaning by almost 50% and was certainly not in the axis camp but Yugoslavia flipped anyway. While one could make a case for a Serbian or a Croatian state breaking away from Yugoslavia as an independent nation, I don't believe all of Yugoslavia would flip. I think a "break up" of the Yugoslavian state into it's WW1 factions would be much more likely (Montenegro, Macedonia, Serbia, 'croatia') with some land going to Albania. A state of Croatia would form as an Axis satellite but a Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia would remain neutral/ pro allied. Greece would get some land as well as Albania.
3). Axis game: The AI will move regular transports (NOT amphibious transports) into a Port with less than 5 supply and unload in the same move. This is not possible for a player who has to wait until the following turn to unload. I saw this when I had troops next to Bengazi with port supply 1. The allies had Bengazi, I was just adjacent ready to 'obtain' it the next turn. I saw the transports move to the port (since I was adjacent), the units in Bengazi move one hex out, and the transports unload into the city hex.
4). Axis game: The Soviets had obtained infantry advancement 3 in January 1942. I tried to duplicate this in my next Allied player versus AI game. Even if I went straight for that improvement ignoring all else, it was impossible as a player to even get to level 2 by mid 42. I realize breakthroughs could modify the rate to obtain but that would require investment in Spying which was only 1 at the end of the Allied AI game for the Soviets. Realistically, this achievement ought not be possible until 44 at the earliest. It's akin to German jets in 42. I think a review of research is in order.
5). Axis game: No kidding, Malta hindered Axis supply TWICE EVERY TURN for the duration. Unbelievable. As the Allied versus the Axis AI in my next game, the Malta event probably fired ONCE every 3-4 turns. The same happened with the Crete event. Crete hindered supply EVERY TURN when I was an allied player and only fired twice at all while I was an Axis player.
6). The USA was all over Kuwait in 1941 before the USA was even at war. Seems the AI transported all the USA units to the Persian Gulf pre war and landed in Kuwait. That is strange since USA units can't even land in Britain prior to war entry.
7). Greek partisans kept attacking supply even after the Allies liberated the country.
Again, not sure how much of this is related to your mod or the vanilla game. Either way, perhaps you can address some of this in your next Mod update. Thank you for listening and providing such an improved version of the game to play.
- crispy131313
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RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
1). Allied game: The AI used diplomacy on Greece. When the percentage went to 8% Axis, Greece joined the Axis. This is not the first time. Greece turned in an earlier game at 3%. It seems as soon as Greece goes positive at all to the Axis side it flips and joins the axis. Seems unreasonable but must be a DE in the game. I think the value should be much higher as it's hard to believe Greece would join the Axis when even Bulgaria is not Axis and there is no immediate threat.
There is indeed a window of opportunity via Decision event for Greece to join the Axis in the fall of 1940 if they are Axis leaning. The UK has the opportunity on the opening turn to sway Greece 25-30% towards the Allies however, and with Italian diplomacy in Greece blocked German diplomacy in Greece can be entirely negated. This is a "what if" situation, and provides the German an alternative to Spain in the early diplomacy game. Given that the Allies will essentially have to fully ignore Germany's unimpeded efforts to sway Greece for a full year for this to happen I am OK with leaving as is.
Yugoslavia signed the Tripartite Pact on March 25, 1941 and yes there was the coup immediately after on March 27, but this was also at a time while Greece was counterattacking successfully against the Italians along the Albanian border. If Greece was also Axis and essentially the country surrounded by the Axis, I think it is up to debate if the coup would have happened.2). Allied game: While not crippling, the flipping of Greece always makes Yugoslavia join the Axis in the next turn with the "Yugoslavia is surrounded by axis countries and thus joins the Axis." The problem is that it flips whether it's surrounded or not. In the last case, Bulgaria (which borders Yugoslavia) was Soviet leaning by almost 50% and was certainly not in the axis camp but Yugoslavia flipped anyway. While one could make a case for a Serbian or a Croatian state breaking away from Yugoslavia as an independent nation, I don't believe all of Yugoslavia would flip. I think a "break up" of the Yugoslavian state into it's WW1 factions would be much more likely (Montenegro, Macedonia, Serbia, 'croatia') with some land going to Albania. A state of Croatia would form as an Axis satellite but a Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia would remain neutral/ pro allied. Greece would get some land as well as Albania.
This must be a feature of the game and not my mod, not much I can say on this.3). Axis game: The AI will move regular transports (NOT amphibious transports) into a Port with less than 5 supply and unload in the same move. This is not possible for a player who has to wait until the following turn to unload. I saw this when I had troops next to Bengazi with port supply 1. The allies had Bengazi, I was just adjacent ready to 'obtain' it the next turn. I saw the transports move to the port (since I was adjacent), the units in Bengazi move one hex out, and the transports unload into the city hex.
I don't think having AI Soviet troops on par with Germany is game breaking, at this point the Axis have already conquered all of the easy territory, are likely still ahead on Tank/Air and have a sizable national morale bonus, which still makes their troops more effective. However Research was amended in 3.0 significantly, as I had identified some bugs with research in 2.0 which was definitely slowing down player research.4). Axis game: The Soviets had obtained infantry advancement 3 in January 1942. I tried to duplicate this in my next Allied player versus AI game. Even if I went straight for that improvement ignoring all else, it was impossible as a player to even get to level 2 by mid 42. I realize breakthroughs could modify the rate to obtain but that would require investment in Spying which was only 1 at the end of the Allied AI game for the Soviets. Realistically, this achievement ought not be possible until 44 at the earliest. It's akin to German jets in 42. I think a review of research is in order.
This has to be extremely bad luck, I checked the scripts they are only set to 15% and 20% respectively and they are the same regardless of PBEM or either AI side.5). Axis game: No kidding, Malta hindered Axis supply TWICE EVERY TURN for the duration. Unbelievable. As the Allied versus the Axis AI in my next game, the Malta event probably fired ONCE every 3-4 turns. The same happened with the Crete event. Crete hindered supply EVERY TURN when I was an allied player and only fired twice at all while I was an Axis player.
No these are scripted units (AI only) to support the Middle East if Egypt falls, my guess is that you took Egypt prior to US war entry and these units arrived the same turn as they joined the war which made it appear that they must have transported prior to war entry.6). The USA was all over Kuwait in 1941 before the USA was even at war. Seems the AI transported all the USA units to the Persian Gulf pre war and landed in Kuwait. That is strange since USA units can't even land in Britain prior to war entry.
I will see if I can fix this.7). Greek partisans kept attacking supply even after the Allies liberated the country.
Thank you for the feedback. Were both matches a Decisive Victory?
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RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
My response:
1). The facts are clear about Greece. It was run by the Metaxis Govt which maintained a heavy pro-Allied leaning especially with Great Britain. While they strove for Neutrality, their chief foe was Italy and Musolini's desire for conquests on par with his German ally. This caused the Greco-Italian war to start on 28 Oct 1940 when Italy attacked from Albania which he took in April of 39 (Mussolini expected Bulgaria to join and it was their neutrality that allowed the bulk of Greek forces to be diverted against the Italians.) From the history of the politics, there is no way that a 'slight' axis leaning would ever have brought Greece into the Axis camp. In fact, Greek units continued to fight for the British under the Greek Government in exile in the Middle East after Greece surrendered.
It's also clear that Hitler didn't want to get involved in the Balkans at all but was forced into it when the Italian forces were pushed back well into Albania thanks to determined combat actions by Greek forces. A British expeditionary force was sent to Greece as well. Hitler had to bail Mussolini out and it began April 6 1941 in conjunction with Yugoslavia.
2). Speaking to Yugoslavia, yes, they signed the pact or more correctly, the Prime Minister signed the pact on March 25, 1941 against the will of the people and the Govt who saw several immediate resignations as a result. In fact, two days later the people and the Air Force staged a coup and overthrew the government. This created great concern in the German High Command who were already laying plans for the invasion of Greece and decided to add Yugoslavia in the plans as well.
Prior to this time, the Govt of Stojadinovik had tried to maintain neutrality by signing a treaty of friendship with France and a non-aggression treaty with Italy. The problem with Yugoslavia, as I mentioned in my early post, was internal. Croatia wanted an independent state allied with the Axis while the rest, mainly Serbia, wanted to back the Allies. Eventually the problems caused the regent, Prince Paul, to 'fire' Stojadinovik and put in Cvetkovic who made a deal with the Croatians to establish their own 'country within a country.' But this backfired with the people and made matters worse seeing rise to a third group, the communist party of Yugoslavia, which wanted alignment with the Soviets.
The fall of France in May 1940 badly weakened the pro-allied side so Prince Paul was forced to pander to the Axis to stop the communists. That worked for a year because Hitler didn't want to get involved with the Balkans and probably would have worked for the duration until Mussolini stepped into Greece. Yugoslavia tried secret negotiations with the Allies and the Soviets but were geographically isolated from them. They tried to minimize concessions to the Axis but the Greco-Italian war really forced the eventual signing of the Tripartite pact. Which of course, was overthrown two days later. The rest is history.
Based on this, Yugoslavia was never going to be successful in fully joining either side and probably would have maintained neutrality if not for the Greko-Italian war. They just sort of fell into invasion. So I submit that diplomacy would never swing Yugoslavia either way. Successful Allied diplomacy just keeps it neutral while successful Axis diplomacy would cause a partition of Yugoslavia creating Croatia and the satellite states loosely lumped together as Serbia that stays neutral unless Greece comes into the conflict whereupon "Serbia" declares for the Allies.
3). This goes back to Hubert..LOL!
4). I wholly disagree that Soviet troops would be any where near parity with German troops that early on at any level. For the Soviets to get Infantry 3 before Germany gets even 2 is ridiculous and the research needs to be set back with the Soviets at Infantry level 0 at the start without investment. The DE that improves morale is good but there weren't even enough rifles for half the troops at Stalingrad so research giving them parity or superiority is not believable until late 43 or 44. And you could make a case that wouldn't even happen without the Lend Lease program so if a player shut down the convoys to 0, then that should cause a DE preventing Research breakthroughs for the Soviets. A nice reason for players to keep the supplies flowing, I'd say.
5). I'm not convinced of bad luck. The laws of probability don't allow that kind of luck. There must be something in the AI programming because weather is bizzare too. As an Axis player, I get bad weather in Oct until next April but in multiple games, an AI Axis gets clear weather all year round on their half turn rarely seeing any A\C grounding. Also AI always gets Far east reinforcements in Dec, as a player I rarely see them until April or May. Seems the AI does better with the Soviet winter too, often it doesn't even fire off until late Jan and the results are 'nicer'. I actually played one game where the weather was clear for the Axis AI from May 41 to May of 42 with terrible weather on every player turn. I've played dozens of games both ways with many mods, there is a bias somehow creeping into it.
6). Yes I believe the Italians took Egypt but I also saw several transports from the USA enroute to the Persian Gulf so clearly the AI was responding to something. And if the purpose of the scripted units is to help Egypt beyond the already extra tanks, why do they go to Kuwait when Iraq isn't even in the picture? Why not appear as an effort to retake Cairo or more importantly for the USA, the Suez canal? And such a move should be a DE that moves Turkey even further Axis. A player has to evaluate the loss of Egypt without US help versus saving Egypt with the help but seeing Turkey go Axis.
7). Cool.
Yes, both matches were decisive but I did play on intermediate. Doesn't mean that the scripts to aid the AI are not over the top. They basically just churn out dozens of free units not available to a player. I would rather see 'help' come in a different form.
1). The facts are clear about Greece. It was run by the Metaxis Govt which maintained a heavy pro-Allied leaning especially with Great Britain. While they strove for Neutrality, their chief foe was Italy and Musolini's desire for conquests on par with his German ally. This caused the Greco-Italian war to start on 28 Oct 1940 when Italy attacked from Albania which he took in April of 39 (Mussolini expected Bulgaria to join and it was their neutrality that allowed the bulk of Greek forces to be diverted against the Italians.) From the history of the politics, there is no way that a 'slight' axis leaning would ever have brought Greece into the Axis camp. In fact, Greek units continued to fight for the British under the Greek Government in exile in the Middle East after Greece surrendered.
It's also clear that Hitler didn't want to get involved in the Balkans at all but was forced into it when the Italian forces were pushed back well into Albania thanks to determined combat actions by Greek forces. A British expeditionary force was sent to Greece as well. Hitler had to bail Mussolini out and it began April 6 1941 in conjunction with Yugoslavia.
2). Speaking to Yugoslavia, yes, they signed the pact or more correctly, the Prime Minister signed the pact on March 25, 1941 against the will of the people and the Govt who saw several immediate resignations as a result. In fact, two days later the people and the Air Force staged a coup and overthrew the government. This created great concern in the German High Command who were already laying plans for the invasion of Greece and decided to add Yugoslavia in the plans as well.
Prior to this time, the Govt of Stojadinovik had tried to maintain neutrality by signing a treaty of friendship with France and a non-aggression treaty with Italy. The problem with Yugoslavia, as I mentioned in my early post, was internal. Croatia wanted an independent state allied with the Axis while the rest, mainly Serbia, wanted to back the Allies. Eventually the problems caused the regent, Prince Paul, to 'fire' Stojadinovik and put in Cvetkovic who made a deal with the Croatians to establish their own 'country within a country.' But this backfired with the people and made matters worse seeing rise to a third group, the communist party of Yugoslavia, which wanted alignment with the Soviets.
The fall of France in May 1940 badly weakened the pro-allied side so Prince Paul was forced to pander to the Axis to stop the communists. That worked for a year because Hitler didn't want to get involved with the Balkans and probably would have worked for the duration until Mussolini stepped into Greece. Yugoslavia tried secret negotiations with the Allies and the Soviets but were geographically isolated from them. They tried to minimize concessions to the Axis but the Greco-Italian war really forced the eventual signing of the Tripartite pact. Which of course, was overthrown two days later. The rest is history.
Based on this, Yugoslavia was never going to be successful in fully joining either side and probably would have maintained neutrality if not for the Greko-Italian war. They just sort of fell into invasion. So I submit that diplomacy would never swing Yugoslavia either way. Successful Allied diplomacy just keeps it neutral while successful Axis diplomacy would cause a partition of Yugoslavia creating Croatia and the satellite states loosely lumped together as Serbia that stays neutral unless Greece comes into the conflict whereupon "Serbia" declares for the Allies.
3). This goes back to Hubert..LOL!
4). I wholly disagree that Soviet troops would be any where near parity with German troops that early on at any level. For the Soviets to get Infantry 3 before Germany gets even 2 is ridiculous and the research needs to be set back with the Soviets at Infantry level 0 at the start without investment. The DE that improves morale is good but there weren't even enough rifles for half the troops at Stalingrad so research giving them parity or superiority is not believable until late 43 or 44. And you could make a case that wouldn't even happen without the Lend Lease program so if a player shut down the convoys to 0, then that should cause a DE preventing Research breakthroughs for the Soviets. A nice reason for players to keep the supplies flowing, I'd say.
5). I'm not convinced of bad luck. The laws of probability don't allow that kind of luck. There must be something in the AI programming because weather is bizzare too. As an Axis player, I get bad weather in Oct until next April but in multiple games, an AI Axis gets clear weather all year round on their half turn rarely seeing any A\C grounding. Also AI always gets Far east reinforcements in Dec, as a player I rarely see them until April or May. Seems the AI does better with the Soviet winter too, often it doesn't even fire off until late Jan and the results are 'nicer'. I actually played one game where the weather was clear for the Axis AI from May 41 to May of 42 with terrible weather on every player turn. I've played dozens of games both ways with many mods, there is a bias somehow creeping into it.
6). Yes I believe the Italians took Egypt but I also saw several transports from the USA enroute to the Persian Gulf so clearly the AI was responding to something. And if the purpose of the scripted units is to help Egypt beyond the already extra tanks, why do they go to Kuwait when Iraq isn't even in the picture? Why not appear as an effort to retake Cairo or more importantly for the USA, the Suez canal? And such a move should be a DE that moves Turkey even further Axis. A player has to evaluate the loss of Egypt without US help versus saving Egypt with the help but seeing Turkey go Axis.
7). Cool.
Yes, both matches were decisive but I did play on intermediate. Doesn't mean that the scripts to aid the AI are not over the top. They basically just churn out dozens of free units not available to a player. I would rather see 'help' come in a different form.
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RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
I think that #4 above goes back to the problem of using Infantry Weapons as an "evening out" mechanic.
There is the problem stated by gdpsnake above but also that it looks odd to many new players to the MOD that the USSR seems to be able to get more advanced infantry weapons than anyone else. Infantry Weapons represents advanced weaponry, not training.
I would use morale and Infantry Warfare as the main evening out tools.
1. Reset the USSR (and Italy) back to have the same starting stats for attack and defense on their infantry units and max out the USSR at Infantry Weapons 2 just like everyone else.
2. Use national morale scripts and strength scripts to reduce Italian and USSR morale heavily upon war. "The USSR is Shocked at the German Invasion" and "The Italian Populace Fears War with the Allies" I would suggest a drop of 25% for both of them upon entry to the war. This will reduce unit effectiveness overall for the early years until other national morale scripts can increase morale in 1942 and beyond when certain objectives are kept.
3. Increase the cost for the USSR and Italy to buy chits in Command and Control and Infantry Warfare. This would represent their poor training and command at outset.
I think that this system would better model the poor state of Italian and Soviet infantry upon entry.
Just some thoughts to try and keep this MOD the best one out there.
There is the problem stated by gdpsnake above but also that it looks odd to many new players to the MOD that the USSR seems to be able to get more advanced infantry weapons than anyone else. Infantry Weapons represents advanced weaponry, not training.
I would use morale and Infantry Warfare as the main evening out tools.
1. Reset the USSR (and Italy) back to have the same starting stats for attack and defense on their infantry units and max out the USSR at Infantry Weapons 2 just like everyone else.
2. Use national morale scripts and strength scripts to reduce Italian and USSR morale heavily upon war. "The USSR is Shocked at the German Invasion" and "The Italian Populace Fears War with the Allies" I would suggest a drop of 25% for both of them upon entry to the war. This will reduce unit effectiveness overall for the early years until other national morale scripts can increase morale in 1942 and beyond when certain objectives are kept.
3. Increase the cost for the USSR and Italy to buy chits in Command and Control and Infantry Warfare. This would represent their poor training and command at outset.
I think that this system would better model the poor state of Italian and Soviet infantry upon entry.
Just some thoughts to try and keep this MOD the best one out there.
- Hubert Cater
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RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
3). Axis game: The AI will move regular transports (NOT amphibious transports) into a Port with less than 5 supply and unload in the same move. This is not possible for a player who has to wait until the following turn to unload. I saw this when I had troops next to Bengazi with port supply 1. The allies had Bengazi, I was just adjacent ready to 'obtain' it the next turn. I saw the transports move to the port (since I was adjacent), the units in Bengazi move one hex out, and the transports unload into the city hex.
This is indeed a bug on my end and I'll look to correct this.
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RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
Is this mod affected by the vanilla bug described here (strength script morale penalties become morale bonuses)?
I'm in the middle of a campaign with 3.2 and about to launch Barbarossa. But I'm not too keen on continuing if the USSR is going to get a morale boost every time they get trounced....
I'm in the middle of a campaign with 3.2 and about to launch Barbarossa. But I'm not too keen on continuing if the USSR is going to get a morale boost every time they get trounced....
- crispy131313
- Posts: 2125
- Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:37 pm
RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
ORIGINAL: Professor Chaos
Is this mod affected by the vanilla bug described here (strength script morale penalties become morale bonuses)?
I'm in the middle of a campaign with 3.2 and about to launch Barbarossa. But I'm not too keen on continuing if the USSR is going to get a morale boost every time they get trounced....
If it is a game engine bug then yes. However I don't think this really has much effect in the Eastern Front, more so in France 40' where there are more of these types of scripts.
Fall Weiss II - SC3 Mod
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- crispy131313
- Posts: 2125
- Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:37 pm
RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
So I have made some major changes for the next version. I have removed the level III Infantry Weapons category for the USSR, and now all units in the game have the same base combat stats. Early national morale events for the USSR and Italy will be the new reliance on simulating their forces poor effectiveness in the early going.
As well, I have overhauled the "Warfare" research categories (except Amphibious Warfare) to remove the double strike/intercept upgrade, and now these warfare categories will only provide a morale bonus to units of 5% per level. The maximum achievable bonus will be 15%, as each of the following categories can be achieved at Level III; Infantry Warfare, Armoured Warfare, Aerial Warfare, Naval Warfare & Ballistic Warfare (new). I have also added 2 new research categories; Tank Production and Aircraft Production, which if researched will increase the build limits of Tank Divisions, Tank Corps, Fighters and Medium Bombers by 1 per level.
All of the below changes (and from recent versions) are made with the following in mind;
- Reduce the Axis steamroll effect; the Axis receive a lot of help early on in the game and should they do much better then historically, there are some ancillary units available (from across the globe) to assist in fighting back against the Axis encourage game longevity/enjoyment.
- Reduce the time required for the USSR to begin to counter-attack effectively
- Put more strain on the Axis manpower to cover all territory effectively
- Add a new layer of strategy by allowing players to mold each nation's strength with the changes to "Warfare" research categories and to invest in Aircraft/Tank Production.
I will need to test a bit in the game to make sure everything is working well prior to release. There are some big changes here, any thoughts? I've appreciated the feedback I have received lately, I do put consideration into all and have received some very good ideas and you will see that in some of these changes.
- USSR begins with Anti-Tank I
- Removed USSR Anti-Tank Chit
- Tank Divisions will have 10% Demoralization attack value (increased from 0%)
- Fixed German and Soviet NM bonus/penalty upon beginning of Barbarossa
- Amended Anti-Tank base soft/hard attack value to 1.5 (from 1)
- Amended Anti-Tank soft/hard attack value increments from Anti-Tank Research from 1 per level to 0.5 per level
- Increased USA mobilization from Pearl Harbor from 15-20% to 25%-30%
- Added British Empire Reinforcements in Canada upon successful Sealion (Axis control Southern Britain)
- Added scripts for the British Empire Reinforcements to support US attempt to liberate UK
- New UK Decision Event for Operation Sledgehammer or Operation Overlord (will only fire if conditions are met early 43')
- Some amendments to NM events on the Eastern Front around the end of 41'
- Added popup for Sweden (leans to Axis) after receiving military aircraft from Italy
- Fixed Vichy France Joins Axis text
- Variable Decision Event for Vichy France to join the Axis will only occur if UK does not recognize Vichy France
- Removed German chit in Advanced Tanks
- Reduced German Garrisons build limits by 2
- Reduced German Infantry Corps build limits by 1
- Reduced German Infantry Division build limits by 4
- Increased German Infantry Army build limits by 1
- UK will no longer have the opportunity to send Lease Lease to UK if the Turkish Straits were occupied by USSR
- New German Morale penalty to occur once the Allies have established themselves in France, prior to taking Paris
- New German Decision Event to prepare for Soviet winter 42'
- If Moscow is occupied the USSR will transfer additional forces from Siberia
NEW
- If Turkey joins the Axis via Turkish Strait Crisis, the USSR will deploy 2 Infantry Corps and 1 Mountain Division near the Turkish border in the Caucasus
- The Maikop Oilfield will be permanently destroyed upon Axis capture
- Italian NM will be penalized by about 15% of starting value upon war entry, to slowly recover over the next 10 turns
- Soviet NM will be penalized by about 20% of starting value upon war entry, to slowly recover over the first 10 turns of 1942
- Increased Axis oil shortages supply events maximum variable by 1 for effected resources
- Shock Armies have De-entrenchment value of 2
- Soviet Infantry Divisions, Mechanized Divisions, Infantry Corps and Infantry Armies now have the same base stats and upgrades as all other Majors
- Italian Infantry Armies now have the same base stats and upgrades as all other Majors
- USSR Infantry Weapons now max level II
- USSR Infantry Weapons starting value reverted to Level 0
- Mechanized Corps, Tank Corps, Tank Armies, Fighters, Maritime Bombers and Strategic Bombers now have 2 strikes/intercept as base stat
- Overhauled the "Warfare" research categories to remove double strike/intercept automatic upgrade, and included new category Ballistic Warfare.
- Infantry Warfare, Armoured Warfare, Aerial Warfare, Naval Warfare, Ballistic Warfare now increases only the morale bonus of the applicable units by 5% per level. Each category can reach maximum level III.
- Amended the majors warfare categories upon game start to represent each majors strength (i.e. Germany has Armoured Warfare II, Naval Warfare 0, UK has Armoured Warfare 0, Naval Warfare II)
- Added a half strength French Heavy Artillery unit behind the Maginot Line
- New Research category - Tank Production; which increases the build limit of Tank Divisions and Tank Corps by 1 per level
- New Research category - Aircraft Production; which increases the build limit of Fighters and Medium Bombers by 1 per level
- Amended/updated the research category description text in game
- Amended AI research scripts
- Yugoslavia will only have a 50% chance of joining the Axis if surrounded by Axis countries (which is a result of Greece joining the Axis)
As well, I have overhauled the "Warfare" research categories (except Amphibious Warfare) to remove the double strike/intercept upgrade, and now these warfare categories will only provide a morale bonus to units of 5% per level. The maximum achievable bonus will be 15%, as each of the following categories can be achieved at Level III; Infantry Warfare, Armoured Warfare, Aerial Warfare, Naval Warfare & Ballistic Warfare (new). I have also added 2 new research categories; Tank Production and Aircraft Production, which if researched will increase the build limits of Tank Divisions, Tank Corps, Fighters and Medium Bombers by 1 per level.
All of the below changes (and from recent versions) are made with the following in mind;
- Reduce the Axis steamroll effect; the Axis receive a lot of help early on in the game and should they do much better then historically, there are some ancillary units available (from across the globe) to assist in fighting back against the Axis encourage game longevity/enjoyment.
- Reduce the time required for the USSR to begin to counter-attack effectively
- Put more strain on the Axis manpower to cover all territory effectively
- Add a new layer of strategy by allowing players to mold each nation's strength with the changes to "Warfare" research categories and to invest in Aircraft/Tank Production.
I will need to test a bit in the game to make sure everything is working well prior to release. There are some big changes here, any thoughts? I've appreciated the feedback I have received lately, I do put consideration into all and have received some very good ideas and you will see that in some of these changes.
- USSR begins with Anti-Tank I
- Removed USSR Anti-Tank Chit
- Tank Divisions will have 10% Demoralization attack value (increased from 0%)
- Fixed German and Soviet NM bonus/penalty upon beginning of Barbarossa
- Amended Anti-Tank base soft/hard attack value to 1.5 (from 1)
- Amended Anti-Tank soft/hard attack value increments from Anti-Tank Research from 1 per level to 0.5 per level
- Increased USA mobilization from Pearl Harbor from 15-20% to 25%-30%
- Added British Empire Reinforcements in Canada upon successful Sealion (Axis control Southern Britain)
- Added scripts for the British Empire Reinforcements to support US attempt to liberate UK
- New UK Decision Event for Operation Sledgehammer or Operation Overlord (will only fire if conditions are met early 43')
- Some amendments to NM events on the Eastern Front around the end of 41'
- Added popup for Sweden (leans to Axis) after receiving military aircraft from Italy
- Fixed Vichy France Joins Axis text
- Variable Decision Event for Vichy France to join the Axis will only occur if UK does not recognize Vichy France
- Removed German chit in Advanced Tanks
- Reduced German Garrisons build limits by 2
- Reduced German Infantry Corps build limits by 1
- Reduced German Infantry Division build limits by 4
- Increased German Infantry Army build limits by 1
- UK will no longer have the opportunity to send Lease Lease to UK if the Turkish Straits were occupied by USSR
- New German Morale penalty to occur once the Allies have established themselves in France, prior to taking Paris
- New German Decision Event to prepare for Soviet winter 42'
- If Moscow is occupied the USSR will transfer additional forces from Siberia
NEW
- If Turkey joins the Axis via Turkish Strait Crisis, the USSR will deploy 2 Infantry Corps and 1 Mountain Division near the Turkish border in the Caucasus
- The Maikop Oilfield will be permanently destroyed upon Axis capture
- Italian NM will be penalized by about 15% of starting value upon war entry, to slowly recover over the next 10 turns
- Soviet NM will be penalized by about 20% of starting value upon war entry, to slowly recover over the first 10 turns of 1942
- Increased Axis oil shortages supply events maximum variable by 1 for effected resources
- Shock Armies have De-entrenchment value of 2
- Soviet Infantry Divisions, Mechanized Divisions, Infantry Corps and Infantry Armies now have the same base stats and upgrades as all other Majors
- Italian Infantry Armies now have the same base stats and upgrades as all other Majors
- USSR Infantry Weapons now max level II
- USSR Infantry Weapons starting value reverted to Level 0
- Mechanized Corps, Tank Corps, Tank Armies, Fighters, Maritime Bombers and Strategic Bombers now have 2 strikes/intercept as base stat
- Overhauled the "Warfare" research categories to remove double strike/intercept automatic upgrade, and included new category Ballistic Warfare.
- Infantry Warfare, Armoured Warfare, Aerial Warfare, Naval Warfare, Ballistic Warfare now increases only the morale bonus of the applicable units by 5% per level. Each category can reach maximum level III.
- Amended the majors warfare categories upon game start to represent each majors strength (i.e. Germany has Armoured Warfare II, Naval Warfare 0, UK has Armoured Warfare 0, Naval Warfare II)
- Added a half strength French Heavy Artillery unit behind the Maginot Line
- New Research category - Tank Production; which increases the build limit of Tank Divisions and Tank Corps by 1 per level
- New Research category - Aircraft Production; which increases the build limit of Fighters and Medium Bombers by 1 per level
- Amended/updated the research category description text in game
- Amended AI research scripts
- Yugoslavia will only have a 50% chance of joining the Axis if surrounded by Axis countries (which is a result of Greece joining the Axis)
Fall Weiss II - SC3 Mod
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RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
What does Ballistic Warfare improve?
"Part of the $10 million I spent on gambling, part on booze and part on women. The rest I spent foolishly." - George Raft
- crispy131313
- Posts: 2125
- Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:37 pm
RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
ORIGINAL: Taxman66
What does Ballistic Warfare improve?
The Various Artillery, Anti-Tank, Anti-Air
Fall Weiss II - SC3 Mod
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RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
That should be considerably cheaper I would think.
"Part of the $10 million I spent on gambling, part on booze and part on women. The rest I spent foolishly." - George Raft
RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
Just had an alternate idea to address the Russian Infantry Weapons level 3 issue.
Try your thinking cap on for this idea:
Set All nations to have a maximum Infantry Weapons level of 3.
Set the various combat values at level 3 equal to current vanilla game level of 2 for all (non Russian) nations and go backwards (i.e.That is: level 2 = level 1 vanilla; level 1 = level 0 vanilla; and level 0 = Russian level 0 vanilla).
Adjust starting level Infantry Weapons accordingly (i.e. Germany starts at level 2, Russia starts at level 0, everyone else starts at level 1).
Something would need to differentiate Russian Shock Troops (beyond their getting an additional AP that they already have).
Maybe a permanent morale boost?
Try your thinking cap on for this idea:
Set All nations to have a maximum Infantry Weapons level of 3.
Set the various combat values at level 3 equal to current vanilla game level of 2 for all (non Russian) nations and go backwards (i.e.That is: level 2 = level 1 vanilla; level 1 = level 0 vanilla; and level 0 = Russian level 0 vanilla).
Adjust starting level Infantry Weapons accordingly (i.e. Germany starts at level 2, Russia starts at level 0, everyone else starts at level 1).
Something would need to differentiate Russian Shock Troops (beyond their getting an additional AP that they already have).
Maybe a permanent morale boost?
"Part of the $10 million I spent on gambling, part on booze and part on women. The rest I spent foolishly." - George Raft
- crispy131313
- Posts: 2125
- Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:37 pm
RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
ORIGINAL: Taxman66
That should be considerably cheaper I would think.
They all cost the same at 100 MPP right now, Anti-Air Units are more effective already in this mod and have never received morale bonus in previous versions from any of the other research categories, so this will make anti-air defense even stronger, additionally Anti-Tank units are double strike so it has usefulness for every major.
Fall Weiss II - SC3 Mod
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- crispy131313
- Posts: 2125
- Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:37 pm
RE: Fall Weiss II Western Theater 2.0
ORIGINAL: Taxman66
Just had an alternate idea to address the Russian Infantry Weapons level 3 issue.
Try your thinking cap on for this idea:
Set All nations to have a maximum Infantry Weapons level of 3.
Set the various combat values at level 3 equal to current vanilla game level of 2 for all (non Russian) nations and go backwards (i.e.That is: level 2 = level 1 vanilla; level 1 = level 0 vanilla; and level 0 = Russian level 0 vanilla).
Adjust starting level Infantry Weapons accordingly (i.e. Germany starts at level 2, Russia starts at level 0, everyone else starts at level 1).
Something would need to differentiate Russian Shock Troops (beyond their getting an additional AP that they already have).
Maybe a permanent morale boost?
That seems very ambitious, and honestly could throw a tonne of balance issues into mix. 2 Levels of Infantry Weapons is pretty well tested throughout most theaters of the game I think I'll have to stay on the cautious side and leave it at 2.
For The Shock Troops, I've given them De-entrenchment 2 to continue their usefulness and great value for spearheading an offense.
Fall Weiss II - SC3 Mod
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