Dutch AVP Arend: Scenario 1 Exploits

[PaxMondo]

Looks like the AV has 101 supply, so should ... Lot less than the supply I'm used to, but then this is a pretty small AV ...

[WEXF]

To be sure the AVP is really a small ship compared to the larger AV. There are interesting some differences in the ship types that are worth pointing out for new players.

ava.jpg (85.14 KiB) Viewed 392 times

In the Allied fleet there are a number of different AVP classes. The US Navy has the Bird AVP Class that can tend 6 seaplanes and has some minimal ASW capability. The Dutch have several different classes ranging from 700-1565 tons and ability to support from 4-8 seaplanes. Only Arend and Valk have the ability to carry a floatplane on board.

avpa.jpg (121.09 KiB) Viewed 390 times

In the above posting on ship types from the manual it says that AV do not operate aircraft while under way and generally do not carry aircraft on board. Both Japan and the Allies have AV that do carry aircraft on board. I also believe that they can operate while the ships are underway. I would appreciate some clarification from those who know more than I do.
WEXF

[BBfanboy]

Japanese CS seaplane carriers can operate aircraft while underway, but I am not sure about their AVs. Only a few Allied AVs carry aircraft and they have no catapult so they cannot launch while underway. They need to be in port to crane their seaplane onto the water for takeoff. I am unsure whether disbandment or docking is also required. I would guess disbandment is.

[RangerJoe]

Japanese CS seaplane carriers can operate aircraft while underway, but I am not sure about their AVs. Only a few Allied AVs carry aircraft and they have no catapult so they cannot launch while underway. They need to be in port to crane their seaplane onto the water for takeoff. I am unsure whether disbandment or docking is also required. I would guess disbandment is.

Some can and some can't, you have to look at the actual ship class to see the difference. Some can operate a few or even just one while underway yet can service more while disbanded at a base.

[WEXF]

Japanese CS seaplane carriers can operate aircraft while underway, but I am not sure about their AVs. Only a few Allied AVs carry aircraft and they have no catapult so they cannot launch while underway. They need to be in port to crane their seaplane onto the water for takeoff. I am unsure whether disbandment or docking is also required. I would guess disbandment is.

I really appreciate these responses. If Arend and Valk cannot operate the float planes while underway the orders command have for these ships, escorting cargo TF, makes no sense. I will do some tests to see if the pilots on the AVPs increase their missions flown while the ships are underway. It is clear that Arend and Valk have cranes to be able to lower the float planes into the water. If not at port is it possible that they can still lower the planes in the same way Japanese subs can with a Glen? Time will tell.
WEXF

[RangerJoe]

Japanese CS seaplane carriers can operate aircraft while underway, but I am not sure about their AVs. Only a few Allied AVs carry aircraft and they have no catapult so they cannot launch while underway. They need to be in port to crane their seaplane onto the water for takeoff. I am unsure whether disbandment or docking is also required. I would guess disbandment is.

I really appreciate these responses. If Arend and Valk cannot operate the float planes while underway the orders command have for these ships, escorting cargo TF, makes no sense. I will do some tests to see if the pilots on the AVPs increase their missions flown while the ships are underway. It is clear that Arend and Valk have cranes to be able to lower the float planes into the water. If not at port is it possible that they can still lower the planes in the same way Japanese subs can with a Glen? Time will tell.
WEXF

The float planes are usually launched with a catapult, the cranes are used to load them. If I was a pilot, I would not want to try and land on a catapult!

[WEXF]

Japanese CS seaplane carriers can operate aircraft while underway, but I am not sure about their AVs. Only a few Allied AVs carry aircraft and they have no catapult so they cannot launch while underway. They need to be in port to crane their seaplane onto the water for takeoff. I am unsure whether disbandment or docking is also required. I would guess disbandment is.

I really appreciate these responses. If Arend and Valk cannot operate the float planes while underway the orders command have for these ships, escorting cargo TF, makes no sense. I will do some tests to see if the pilots on the AVPs increase their missions flown while the ships are underway. It is clear that Arend and Valk have cranes to be able to lower the float planes into the water. If not at port is it possible that they can still lower the planes in the same way Japanese subs can with a Glen? Time will tell.
WEXF

The float planes are usually launched with a catapult, the cranes are used to load them. If I was a pilot, I would not want to try and land on a catapult!

It is looking like the Walrus will not be able to operate in the way Command (me) thought. I checked on how the Glen operated and there was a catapult on the submarine. It seems like the way Arend would operate is to sail to a location, unload the floatplane with the crane and remain in port while the plane performed its mission. At the same time Arend could provide support for other seaplanes from different squadrons that happened to be in the same location. I will still run the tests but new orders for Arend and Valk are likely to be issued shortly.

[RangerJoe]

For the crew of Arend however, the biggest news was that AVP Valk, the sister ship of Arend had loaded a Walrus II float plane and was ready to join Arend in the mission of escorting cargo ships that were sailing in waters that had been reported as having enemy submarines on patrol. AVP Valk was at Carnarvon but would be moving to Exmouth.Valka.jpg

This picture shows that the AVP Valk can operate one while underway and support 7 while disbanded.

[WEXF]

For the crew of Arend however, the biggest news was that AVP Valk, the sister ship of Arend had loaded a Walrus II float plane and was ready to join Arend in the mission of escorting cargo ships that were sailing in waters that had been reported as having enemy submarines on patrol. AVP Valk was at Carnarvon but would be moving to Exmouth.Valka.jpg

This picture shows that the AVP Valk can operate one while underway and support 7 while disbanded.

Ranger Joe: Please post the picture.

[RangerJoe]

For the crew of Arend however, the biggest news was that AVP Valk, the sister ship of Arend had loaded a Walrus II float plane and was ready to join Arend in the mission of escorting cargo ships that were sailing in waters that had been reported as having enemy submarines on patrol. AVP Valk was at Carnarvon but would be moving to Exmouth.Valka.jpg

This picture shows that the AVP Valk can operate one while underway and support 7 while disbanded.

Ranger Joe: Please post the picture.

It is your picture from the previous page.

[WEXF]

This picture shows that the AVP Valk can operate one while underway and support 7 while disbanded.

Ranger Joe: Please post the picture.

It is your picture from the previous page.

In the picture I posted AVP was in port not underway.

[RangerJoe]

Ranger Joe: Please post the picture.

It is your picture from the previous page.

In the picture I posted AVP was in port not underway.

You get the information from the ship screen itself.

[WEXF]

It is your picture from the previous page.

In the picture I posted AVP was in port not underway.

You get the information from the ship screen itself.

This is the ship screen I posted previously. It shows AVP Valk "anchored". I see the numbers for the seaplane support but I don't see how you get that the ship can operate aircraft while underway from this screen.

Valka.jpg (122.77 KiB) Viewed 275 times

[WEXF]

24Sep found the port at Carnarvon 23%>L3. The briefing on Operation Resource was interesting.

CD24sepa.jpg (212.72 KiB) Viewed 248 times

At CD the new production of 2000 RP should have resulted in a total of 19346RP at the base. The new total of 15877 means 3469 RP went somewhere.
At Exmouth, the starting number of 6004RP was reduced by 2000 loaded on TF 432. Remaining would have been 4004. The new total at the base of 7473 means that 3469 came from somewhere. Clearly the shift was from CD.
At Port Hedland TF378 loaded 4000 and TF 415 loaded 800 reducing the total at the base from 317593 to 312793.
At Carnarvon TF243 and TF261 each loaded 800RP. TF314 unloaded 188RP and disbanded. The base total was reduced by 1412.
Activity at Geraldton, Perth and Kalgoorlie showed some variation but nothing significantly different from what had been previously seen at these bases.

[bobsteele]

In the picture I posted AVP was in port not underway.

You get the information from the ship screen itself.

This is the ship screen I posted previously. It shows AVP Valk "anchored". I see the numbers for the seaplane support but I don't see how you get that the ship can operate aircraft while underway from this screen.
Valka.jpg

Can’t you test this? Doesn’t Arend have a working plane? Form a task force with the plane embarked and see if the plane will fly missions?

[WEXF]

You get the information from the ship screen itself.

This is the ship screen I posted previously. It shows AVP Valk "anchored". I see the numbers for the seaplane support but I don't see how you get that the ship can operate aircraft while underway from this screen.
Valka.jpg

Can’t you test this? Doesn’t Arend have a working plane? Form a task force with the plane embarked and see if the plane will fly missions?

In my 11 Dec post I said I would run some tests. I am putting them together now. One is with Arend and the other is with Valk. The details of the tests will be posted in a day or two.
WEXF

[RangerJoe]

In the picture I posted AVP was in port not underway.

You get the information from the ship screen itself.

This is the ship screen I posted previously. It shows AVP Valk "anchored". I see the numbers for the seaplane support but I don't see how you get that the ship can operate aircraft while underway from this screen.
Valka.jpg

Where it states "Aircraft Capacity 1/1" shows where it can carry and operate one aircraft while underway. The Seaplane Support of 7 shows how many seaplanes (float planes and/or flying boats) the ship can support while disbanded at a base.

Don't worry some much about how the resources move around, be concerned about how to read the ship's information so you can use it the most effective way for your operations.

[PaxMondo]

You get the information from the ship screen itself.

This is the ship screen I posted previously. It shows AVP Valk "anchored". I see the numbers for the seaplane support but I don't see how you get that the ship can operate aircraft while underway from this screen.
Valka.jpg

...
Don't worry some much about how the resources move around, be concerned about how to read the ship's information so you can use it the most effective way for your operations.

There are 2 types of players of this game. The most common is the combat grognard; all about strategy and tactics.

Then there are a few weirdos running around for whom the economy and logistics is the fun part. Mike Solli, me, a couple of others. So, if you find you are part of this sub-culture, don't worry about it.

However, RJ is 100% correct in his recommendation. Before you spend time on logistics, you must get the mechanics down cold.

PS: If you save each game turn and load it into Tracker, you can then download .csv files that you can then examine in minute detail the logistics of the game. So, you can do detailed post-mortems of the logistics later, at your leisure, with a grand panoply of spreadsheets. Some of the ones that Mike and I used to pass back and forth .... sheesh!!

[RangerJoe]

This is the ship screen I posted previously. It shows AVP Valk "anchored". I see the numbers for the seaplane support but I don't see how you get that the ship can operate aircraft while underway from this screen.
Valka.jpg

...
Don't worry some much about how the resources move around, be concerned about how to read the ship's information so you can use it the most effective way for your operations.

There are 2 types of players of this game. The most common is the combat grognard; all about strategy and tactics.

Then there are a few weirdos running around for whom the economy and logistics is the fun part. Mike Solli, me, a couple of others. So, if you find you are part of this sub-culture, don't worry about it.

However, RJ is 100% correct in his recommendation. Before you spend time on logistics, you must get the mechanics down cold.

PS: If you save each game turn and load it into Tracker, you can then download .csv files that you can then examine in minute detail the logistics of the game. So, you can do detailed post-mortems of the logistics later, at your leisure, with a grand panoply of spreadsheets. Some of the ones that Mike and I used to pass back and forth .... sheesh!!

I agree about the logistics especially for the Japanese side. But before you can run, you do need to learn how to crawl and then walk . . .

I haven't seen very much about what is happening lately other than these resources, before that it was the emphasis on the repairs. There are guides for those things.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3&t=208348

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3#p2847023

[bobsteele]

...
Don't worry some much about how the resources move around, be concerned about how to read the ship's information so you can use it the most effective way for your operations.

There are 2 types of players of this game. The most common is the combat grognard; all about strategy and tactics.

Then there are a few weirdos running around for whom the economy and logistics is the fun part. Mike Solli, me, a couple of others. So, if you find you are part of this sub-culture, don't worry about it.

However, RJ is 100% correct in his recommendation. Before you spend time on logistics, you must get the mechanics down cold.

PS: If you save each game turn and load it into Tracker, you can then download .csv files that you can then examine in minute detail the logistics of the game. So, you can do detailed post-mortems of the logistics later, at your leisure, with a grand panoply of spreadsheets. Some of the ones that Mike and I used to pass back and forth .... sheesh!!

I agree about the logistics especially for the Japanese side. But before you can run, you do need to learn how to crawl and then walk . . .

I haven't seen very much about what is happening lately other than these resources, before that it was the emphasis on the repairs. There are guides for those things.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3&t=208348

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3#p2847023

I appreciate the granularity of all this focusing on the local, and exploring how things work. Very novel AAR, if a bit tedious ATM re: resource movement. But I couldn’t resist putting the Arend in a task force and giving that plane a mission to see what happens. (RJ is correct about the usability of the plane, IME) Experimentation with your toys can lead to interesting discoveries.