War in the East Q&A

[Helpless]

Sounds great. Thanks for the information.

You can bomb railyards, thus reducing rail capacity of the enemy.

[elmo3]

I forgot that.  Thanks Pavel.

[jaw]

ORIGINAL: notenome

Will it be possible to bomb railroads? I say this because as the Germans its mightily important to bomb railroads to 1- slow down Russian Reinforcements and 2- prevent factories from being evacuated from cities you intend on capturing.

Lots of luck at that! Don't forget that you have to fly air recon, air supply, bomb airfields, maybe bomb some ground units and then you might have a plane or two left over to bomb railyards. The Luftwaffe's problem is too many missions and too few planes.

[ComradeP]

Not to mention that bombing railyards is a bit like shooting yourself in the foot. Well, at least it was historically, the Germans could never get their hands on enough Soviet train carriages/locomotives.

With regards to the Soviet production screenshot PyleDriver posted in his AAR:

-The PS-84 was redesignated Li-2 in September 1942. As it's already September in PyleDriver's AAR, when does that happen in the game?

-Wasn't the TB-3 G-2 an Aeroflot variant, basically a retired military version with different engines?

-I thought production of the R-Z was stopped in the 1930's?

-Likewise, I was under the impression that Yak-2/Yak-4 variant production was stopped before Barbarossa, which makes it curious that the R-12 is in production, or that it passed prototype stage to begin with.

[PyleDriver]

I should have mentioned that the production is still a work in progress. But I'm sure any reliable info Jim will be glad to have...Start a new thead, and let everyone who has info dump it on that...Thanks...

[ComradeP]

Before we can dive deep into the actual production figures, we'd have to know how production is calculated for the Germans. It was probably mentioned before, but does the 80% mean that the Germans are sending 80% of their production East, or that they're working at 80% of capacity?

I'm also curious where the production data comes from. To me, it seems unlikely that there's exact documentation of exactly how many aircraft were send East and actually arrived there. I'm inclined to think the operational aircraft lists the Luftwaffe mentioned would be somewhat optimistic throughout most of the later parts of the war, especially with Reich air defence taking away (fragments of) entire units.

Assuming 80% of German production travels East sounds reasonable, though.

As a related question: what about vehicles that were available both in combat and non-combat variants, such as the Sdkfz 251? I see Sdkfz 251 variants in PyleDriver's screenshot, and no distinction between alphabetic production series (A to D).

[jaw]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

With regards to the Soviet production screenshot PyleDriver posted in his AAR:

-The PS-84 was redesignated Li-2 in September 1942. As it's already September in PyleDriver's AAR, when does that happen in the game?

-Wasn't the TB-3 G-2 an Aeroflot variant, basically a retired military version with different engines?

-I thought production of the R-Z was stopped in the 1930's?

-Likewise, I was under the impression that Yak-2/Yak-4 variant production was stopped before Barbarossa, which makes it curious that the R-12 is in production, or that it passed prototype stage to begin with.

Pavel is the Russian aircraft expert so I will defer to him on aircraft issues.

[jaw]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Before we can dive deep into the actual production figures, we'd have to know how production is calculated for the Germans. It was probably mentioned before, but does the 80% mean that the Germans are sending 80% of their production East, or that they're working at 80% of capacity?

I'm also curious where the production data comes from. To me, it seems unlikely that there's exact documentation of exactly how many aircraft were send East and actually arrived there. I'm inclined to think the operational aircraft lists the Luftwaffe mentioned would be somewhat optimistic throughout most of the later parts of the war, especially with Reich air defence taking away (fragments of) entire units.

Assuming 80% of German production travels East sounds reasonable, though.

As a related question: what about vehicles that were available both in combat and non-combat variants, such as the Sdkfz 251? I see Sdkfz 251 variants in PyleDriver's screenshot, and no distinction between alphabetic production series (A to D).

Production data is total production before allocation of a varying portion to other theaters.

Yes I did not distinquish between the various production series of the SdKfz 251 because such distinctions would have no significance given the parameters we are modeling. Technically we are only "producing" the armed halftracks used in the game. The halftracks carrying the panzergrenadiers are included as part of the panzergrenadier squads themselves. Utility halftracks are just part of generic "vehicle" production.

[Helpless]

Aircraft figures you see in this Jon's game are not current. There were many changes done to aircraft database recently and not everything was re-imported in all scenarios. And of cause we can't import them into ongoing games.

[ComradeP]

Technically we are only "producing" the armed halftracks used in the game. The halftracks carrying the panzergrenadiers are included as part of the panzergrenadier squads themselves. Utility halftracks are just part of generic "vehicle" production.

One of the problems with the SdKfz 251 on the Eastern Front is that even many of the utility halftracks were still armed. As the Second Geneva Convention was more or less a dead letter in Russia, even the SdKfz 251 ambulance variants often carried MG's and could as such theoretically be used as regular halftracks.

I guess only including a small number of variants in the production does make sense, especially from the perspective of the number of field conversions which would be more or less impossible to track.

By the way: if SdKfz 251's are part of the actual PzG squad, are the SdKfz 251/1's on the production list supposed to represent fire support variants with a MG34 in long range configuration? That would explain the "MG carrier".

Do some Panzer Pionier squads get organic SdKfz 251/7's?

[jaw]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

By the way: if SdKfz 251's are part of the actual PzG squad, are the SdKfz 251/1's on the production list supposed to represent fire support variants with a MG34 in long range configuration? That would explain the "MG carrier".

Do some Panzer Pionier squads get organic SdKfz 251/7's?

The Machine gun carriers are exactly that, the halftracks carrying the company "heavy" machine guns. Halftracks are built into the Panzer Pioneer squads in the same as the panzergrenadier squads.

[Beetle]

I have a stupid question....
 
In PD's AAR the SU units have labels as 6=8 vs. the G units have 6-8.  Is there a difference?

[Neal_MLC]

How will the arrival of the "Siberians" be handled?  Will they arrive on a set date or will events trigger or modify their arrival date?

[Joel Billings]

ORIGINAL: Neal_MLC

How will the arrival of the "Siberians" be handled?  Will they arrive on a set date or will events trigger or modify their arrival date?

Set date.

[Joel Billings]

ORIGINAL: Beetle

I have a stupid question....

In PD's AAR the SU units have labels as 6=8 vs. the G units have 6-8.  Is there a difference?

6-8 -----> 6 attack Combat Value - 8 Movement Points remaining

6=8 -----> 6 attack Combat Value = 8 defense Combat value (attack CV modified by terrain and fort level of hex)


Remember the Combat Value (CV) is a calculated value that tries to give players an idea of the combat ability of the unit. Since the impacts of the different weapons in a unit along with the morale, experience, fatigue, leadership, supplies, etc. are quite complex, no single CV value can be more than a guide to how the unit will perform in any particular combat.

[USSLockwood]

Would it be possible to post a Terrain Effects Chart?  I'd like to get an idea of movement point costs.

[Neal_MLC]

More questions about the "siberians" Do the arrive on the eastern edge of the map or Moscow?
 
Entrained or not?
 
This begs another question or two. Just how do new units show up and where? It would seem reasonable that they would appear in cities of the home country like Romania but what about Italian units?
 
and one more question about the game in general...
Is it done yet?[:D]
 

[Joel Billings]

No time to organize it, sorry. Testers are free to post a formatted file. Of course, things could change before release. However, terrain types are complete and locked down.



11.1.1 Tactical Movement points cost chart

Terrain Mech/Motorized MP Non-Motorized MP
Clear 1 1
City 1 1
Light Urban 1 1
Heavy Urban 1 1
Light Woods 2 1
Heavy Woods 4 2
Rough 3 2
Swamp (Ice level 4 or less) 6 2
Swamp (Ice level greater than 4) 4 2
Mountain (Mountain Infantry Divisions pay 3 MPs) 40 10
Mountain Pass (Enter and use rail hexes not in enemy ZOC) 8 3
Minor River hexside (No EZOC) +2 +1
Minor River hexside (EZOC) +6 +2
Major River hexside (No EZOC) +4 +2
Major River hexside (EZOC) +18 +5
Impassable River/Lake hex side(Note 1) Impassable except when frozen (Note 2) Impassable except when frozen (Note 2) r
Lake hex (Note 3) Impassable Impassable
Costs for Attacking Mech/Motorized MP Non-Motorized MP
Hasty Attack +3 +2
Deliberate Attack +16 +6
Attack across a minor river (in addition to applicable attack cost) +3 +1
Attack across a major river(in addition to applicable attack cost) +12 +3
Impact of Weather Mech/Motorized MP Non-Motorized MP
Mud +4 +2
Snow +1 +1
Blizzard +2 +2
Impact of Ice (Note 2) Mech/Motorized MP Non-Motorized MP
Minor River Ice Lvl 1 +1 +1
Minor River Ice Lvl 2 +1 +1
Minor River Ice Lvl 3 +2 +2
Minor River Ice Lvl 4 +2 +2
Major River Ice Lvl 1 (No EZOC) +1 +1
Major River Ice Lvl 1 (EZOC) +2 +2
Major River Ice Lvl 2 (No EZOC) +2 +2
Major River Ice Lvl 2 (EZOC) +4 +4
Major River Ice Lvl 3 (No EZOC) +3 +3
Major River Ice Lvl 3 (EZOC) +6 +6
Major River Ice Lvl 4 (No EZOC) +4 +4
Major River Ice Lvl 4 (EZOC) +8 +8
Costs for enemy hexes and EZOC Mech/Motorized MP Non-Motorized MP
Leave enemy ZOC +1 +1
Enter enemy hex +((115-unit morale)/15)) (round down, true for motorized and non-motorized units, subtract one from cost for cavalry units) +((115-unit morale)/15)) (round down, true for motorized and non-motorized units, subtract one from cost for cavalry units)
Enter enemy ZOC (only if already in enemy ZOC, I.e. ZOC to ZOC) Note 4 +4 + same cost as for entering an enemy hex (This is in addition to the entering enemy hex charge that may also apply if entering a enemy hex) +4 + same cost as for entering an enemy hex (This is in addition to the entering enemy hex charge that may also apply if entering a enemy hex)
Brigade/Regimental and Divisional Breakdown units entering enemy hex and when moving ZOC to ZOC +2 in addition to normal costs +2 in addition to normal costs
Note 1: Supply may be traced through hex side.
Note 2: Major and Minor Rivers as well as impassable River/Lake hexsides have no effect on movement or combat when they are frozen. These hexsides are frozen when the ice level is 5 or greater.
Note 3: Supply may be traced under some conditions (see below)
Note 4: Example: A ZOC to ZOC move by a Morale 83 unit moving to clear terrain is 8 if not entering an enemy hex (1 for clear + 1 for leaving a ZOC + 6 for moving ZOC to ZOC ) If the unit was a cavalry unit it would be 7.

[USSLockwood]

What is the hex scale?

[elmo3]

ORIGINAL: doktor

What is the hex scale?

10 miles