OT: Corona virus

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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yes, that's true. All leading indicators (mortality, new cases, hospitalizations, etc.) are declining in Georgia. I'm worried (wary) about the wheels coming off, but man things seem very promising.

On a separate note, while returning to work an hour ago, a national radio talk show interview between two "experts" caught my ear when one said, "New York is not Georgia." They were making the same point made here earlier today - that the two jurisdictions, what they're dealing with and how they need to deal with it, are different. It's eerie how many times we've had discussion in here and the same thought/data shortly afterwards popped up in the news or talk shows, etc. (It's eerie because I don't have television, don't subscribe to newspapers, and only erratically hear radio news. The thoughts I share here are mostly self-generated, based on my experience, what I learn from you all, and the sources you've pointed me to.)

A point that is often lost in the reopen/stay closed debate is that even if mandatory shutdowns are lifted, that doesn't mean businesses are reopening or people are returning to pre-pandemic behavior patterns.
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
We need more testing.
I can't figure out the testing reasoning, maybe somebody here can help. It seems that in this area [Maryland, USA] you only get tested if you are privileged [Governor, sports figure] or if you are sick and your doctor gives you permission to get tested. The reports are that folks can carry this virus and not display any symptoms. Not always, but sometimes. Therefore, it would seem a good idea to expand this limited testing, but that would mean all of us lining up at a test station every morning on our way to work, and that's not practical.

What seems reasonable is to have a home self-test, something we can buy over-the-counter, or pick up at a Free Gov'ment Kiosk, say 20 to a box or some such. Then we can all test ourselves at reasonable intervals. Otherwise there is a large percentage of carriers that are not detected until it is too late. However, because this virus cloaks itself in material common in humans [glucose and something else that slips me at this moment] so far the tests have resulted in a high percentage of false results. This makes home testing kits not feasible.

So my brain keeps running around in circles on this issue. By the way, the flu season generally fizzles out by this time of year. Each day that passes makes it more interesting to see how this virus holds up.

I think you have the testing reasoning figured out.

We need more testing to be able to open back up once we have current cases down to a very small number. Then you can test, trace, and isolate to prevent large outbreaks from recurring endlessly for months/years until there is a vaccine and/or herd immunity.

Or did you mean you can't figure out why some people are able to get tests, and others not? Basically: supply of tests. We (collectively, as a nation) squandered the 2+ months of lockdown (and the 2 months before that) when we should've been making a stockpile of hundreds of millions of tests.
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by obvert »

Men don't like masks.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nity-kills

A new survey of 2,459 people living in the US has found that men are less likely to don face masks because they believe wearing one is “shameful,” “a sign of weakness,” and “not cool.”

The survey, conducted by American and British researchers, also found that men are less likely to believe they’ll be significantly impacted by Covid-19 than women. Which is ironic, because there is a huge amount of evidence showing that men are much more likely to die from coronavirus. Researchers are still trying to figure out whether this is due to biology or behaviour.

Interestingly, the study found gender differences in intentions to wear a face covering basically disappeared in places were masks were made mandatory. In other words: men need to be forced to wear masks more than women do.

---------------------------

Reluctance to show any sign of weakness also factors into why men don’t go to the doctor as much as women do and why they’re less likely to adopt preventative health measures. Toxic masculinity kills.

Masks aren’t particularly fun to wear, but they work. One recent research paper found that if 80% of Americans wore masks, Covid-19 infections rates would drop to approximately one twelfth the number of infections.


https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05 ... study-says

If you’re wondering whether to wear or not to wear, consider this. The day before yesterday, 21 people died of COVID-19 in Japan. In the United States, 2,129 died. Comparing overall death rates for the two countries offers an even starker point of comparison with total U.S. deaths now at a staggering 76,032 and Japan’s fatalities at 577. Japan’s population is about 38% of the U.S., but even adjusting for population, the Japanese death rate is a mere 2% of America’s.

This comes despite Japan having no lockdown, still-active subways, and many businesses that have remained open—reportedly including karaoke bars, although Japanese citizens and industries are practicing social distancing where they can. Nor have the Japanese broadly embraced contact tracing, a practice by which health authorities identify someone who has been infected and then attempt to identify everyone that person might have interacted with—and potentially infected. So how does Japan do it?

“One reason is that nearly everyone there is wearing a mask,”
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Wow. The thing is you need a serious human safety study with any COVID vaccine because of this whole cytokine storm business and the many apparent immune mediated side effects (like Kawasaki Disease in kids)
I think the recombinants or mRNA-based approaches (as opposed to spike glycoprotein or whole virus) approaches are less likely to result in such nasty side effects, don't you?

What about the replicants?
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by RangerJoe »

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe




As far as the meat packing goes, one place where a lot of undocumented (illegal immigrant) workers were gone, the line for applicants stretched around the block. That was in the densely populated state of Iowa. That was just one situation, there are others.

As far as that kind of job, it is an incentive to better yourself to get a better job. Either in pay or working conditions. It does teach valuable job skills like being at a certain place, at a certain time, and be ready to work. Sadly, too many people don't have those skills.

I could post other things, but that could get difficult. PMs are welcomed to discuss things.

Yeah...about that. You've seen the current unemployment rate right? Where are these "better jobs"?

I think you've a narrow view on it - skills is absolutely a component, but there needs to be opportunity to apply those skills. 78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, so it's a challenge for, say, meat plant workers to get a new suit (and that assumes that the job is local and doesn't involve any transport costs).

The "bootstraps" narrative hasn't been working as many think it does for quite some time...

Well then, since the economies are not going to get better, quit letting in the immigrants. Especially since so many are going to decide to retire early, there won't be any job openings. Nope, none at all.

There are places that accept donated clothing for job seekers.

I read where a lot of employers would rather hire someone who had a job that was beneath their skills when there weren't better jobs available instead of sitting at home.

As far as people living paycheck to paycheck, is that because they have a house payment, a car payment, a truck payment, a boat payment, an ATV payment and a snowmobile payment? Maybe even more than one ATV and/or snowmobile that they are paying on?

Getting back to the person with all of those payments, that was a man who had a good, relatively high paying union job who asked someone running a summer camp so his child could attend. He just did not have enough money to pay for it.
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by RangerJoe »

Well, I just went to a store and I did not wear a mask. I saw no one wearing a mask either. As far as wearing a tight fitting mask, I have a furry face.
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by RangerJoe »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
ORIGINAL: obvert
ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I posted this before, but I believe Obvert was busy with other things.[:)]

Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

Maybe you could give a little context to why you're posing the link with me in mind?

Because it talks about several factors, two of which (masks, droplets) you might find relevant and interesting, and that you probably missed the original post because you were having a baby.

He was not having the baby, his wife was. He was just observing. [X(]
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Total Covid-19 cases per 100k residents, at county level - stolen from elsewhere on the internet.

Image

Some real interesting insights from this.

Florida still seems to be doing fairly well, but what worries me is the string of black across the Midwest...

That "string" of black across the Midwest, west of Chicago, is basically in Iowa.

That area, unless it is where Cedar Rapids and Iowa City are, is pretty sparsely populated (I think Iowa City/Cedar Rapids are the orange-ish set of 2-3 just below there, with the black one to the west of there being west of the cities and rural).

Likewise, the little C-shaped one is on the west bank of the Mississippi, where there are no cities. None. Zero. There aren't even really any towns... Iowa has 99 counties, and a population of about 3M. More than half of that population is concentrated in less than 10 counties, with 93 counties having less than 100K population. Of those, 89 have less than 50K... I'm sure Iowa isn't the only state with extreme splits like this, and it's also worth pointing out that Iowa has a fairly regular division of counties (they're mostly square and tiny). Compare to Maryland, which has many fewer counties that are bigger and more irregularly shaped. At the national level, comparing by county is really not useful.

This should be kept in mind while looking at these charts. I don't actually find them very helpful when zoomed out to the national level like this. It makes it too hard to pick out the urban/suburban/rural context.
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe



The image did not show up for me. I can't get to https://i.redd.it/vy7y44mhf0z41.png either.

But I can imagine that the black is the high number of cases at the meat packing plants. Those pose unique situations that have been commented on before.

I can imagine that the food processing plants may have similar problems. Maybe not as bad, but the harvesting work is done by hand, then the fruits and vegetables have to be processed. The processing plants may end up being bad. The harvesting may not be so bad if precautions are taken on any bus rides but then the workers would be in the fields with less contact and more air movement plus the natural UV light.

Doesn't really track with meatpacking plants in Iowa - at least, not very well: https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... ts+in+iowa

The big Tyson plant is in Cedar Falls, which appears to be north of that black spot. Could be the driver of the black spot on the Mississippi, though.
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Well, I just went to a store and I did not wear a mask. I saw no one wearing a mask either. As far as wearing a tight fitting mask, I have a furry face.

As posted above;

One recent research paper found that if 80% of Americans wore masks, Covid-19 infections rates would drop to approximately one twelfth the number of infections.
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

I'm just trying to say that pursuit is important - it's what America was built on. A belief that I can be or do anything with the gifts of mind and body that my Higher Power granted to me. I'm white. Are there additional hurdles for the non-white in America? My experience and observation say "Yes" to that question. Is it better to be a male than a female when it comes to most careers in America? Again I would say yes. But I've met a lot of men and women of all shapes, sizes, and colors. Those that climbed up to a status of middle-class and higher here in America, for the most part, have had a dream that they pursued.

Working for something is important, but socioeconomic mobility in the US is much lower than is commonly mythologized - especially in modern times.

The wiki page on this actually has quite a bit of information with several citations. Synopsis: there is some bad news and some neutral news, with basically only 1 piece of news that could be called vaguely good (the part I underlined in the quote below).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioecon ... ted_States
In recent years, several studies have found that vertical intergenerational mobility is lower in the US than in some European countries.[3] US social mobility has either remained unchanged or decreased since the 1970s.[4][5][6][7] A study conducted by the Pew Charitable Trusts found that the bottom quintile is 57% likely to experience upward mobility and only 7% to experience downward mobility.[8]

A study published in 2008 showed that economic mobility in the U.S. increased from 1950 to 1980, but has declined sharply since 1980.[9]

A 2013 Brookings Institution study found income inequality was increasing and becoming more permanent, sharply reducing social mobility.[10]

A large academic study released in 2014 found US mobility overall has not changed appreciably in the last 25 years (for children born between 1971 and 1996), but a variety of up and down mobility changes were found in several different parts of the country. On average, American children entering the labor market today have the same chances of moving up in the income distribution (relative to their parents) as children born in the 1970s.[11][12]

However, because US income inequalities have increased substantially, the consequences of the "birth lottery"—the parents to whom a child is born—are larger today than in the past. US wealth is increasingly concentrated in the top 10% of American families, so children of the remaining 90% are more likely to be born at lower starting incomes today than the same children in the past. Even if they are equally mobile and climb the same distance up the US socioeconomic ladder as children born 25 years earlier, the bottom 90% of the ladder is worth less now, so they gain less income value from their climb, especially when compared to the top 10%.[11][12]

And that's just from the header... there's more, and I've could find plenty of other citations as well.

Again, that's not to say that it's impossible - just that it's harder than in the past, and also to point out that the mythologizing of "you can do anything if you only just work hard enough" as the common narrative sold to the American worker/workplace is nowhere close to the actual truth.
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

I'm just trying to say that pursuit is important - it's what America was built on. A belief that I can be or do anything with the gifts of mind and body that my Higher Power granted to me. I'm white. Are there additional hurdles for the non-white in America? My experience and observation say "Yes" to that question. Is it better to be a male than a female when it comes to most careers in America? Again I would say yes. But I've met a lot of men and women of all shapes, sizes, and colors. Those that climbed up to a status of middle-class and higher here in America, for the most part, have had a dream that they pursued.

Working for something is important, but socioeconomic mobility in the US is much lower than is commonly mythologized - especially in modern times.

The wiki page on this actually has quite a bit of information with several citations. Synopsis: there is some bad news and some neutral news, with basically only 1 piece of news that could be called vaguely good (the part I underlined in the quote below).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioecon ... ted_States
In recent years, several studies have found that vertical intergenerational mobility is lower in the US than in some European countries.[3] US social mobility has either remained unchanged or decreased since the 1970s.[4][5][6][7] A study conducted by the Pew Charitable Trusts found that the bottom quintile is 57% likely to experience upward mobility and only 7% to experience downward mobility.[8]

A study published in 2008 showed that economic mobility in the U.S. increased from 1950 to 1980, but has declined sharply since 1980.[9]

A 2013 Brookings Institution study found income inequality was increasing and becoming more permanent, sharply reducing social mobility.[10]

A large academic study released in 2014 found US mobility overall has not changed appreciably in the last 25 years (for children born between 1971 and 1996), but a variety of up and down mobility changes were found in several different parts of the country. On average, American children entering the labor market today have the same chances of moving up in the income distribution (relative to their parents) as children born in the 1970s.[11][12]

However, because US income inequalities have increased substantially, the consequences of the "birth lottery"—the parents to whom a child is born—are larger today than in the past. US wealth is increasingly concentrated in the top 10% of American families, so children of the remaining 90% are more likely to be born at lower starting incomes today than the same children in the past. Even if they are equally mobile and climb the same distance up the US socioeconomic ladder as children born 25 years earlier, the bottom 90% of the ladder is worth less now, so they gain less income value from their climb, especially when compared to the top 10%.[11][12]

And that's just from the header... there's more, and I've could find plenty of other citations as well.

Again, that's not to say that it's impossible - just that it's harder than in the past, and also to point out that the mythologizing of "you can do anything if you only just work hard enough" as the common narrative sold to the American worker/workplace is nowhere close to the actual truth.

There is also the obvious follow-on that if everyone did try to work multiple jobs to get ahead and had those same dreams and goals, some would still lose out because that would be the normal, and someone still has to do the s*** work.

The American Dream simply cannot work for everyone. When that realisation seeps in somewhere between age 15 and 35, it can create a lot of frustration, anger, despair. Is it possibly a coincidence that as social mobility reduces drug use and related deaths from overdoses increase?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/611 ... by-gender/
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
For example, the metric most widely used right now to determine whether a state has "crested" in its current COVID-19 epidemic is not any COVID-19 number. Instead they use the UW numbers where the researchers are tracking ICU beds occupied within each state against the total number in that state. As that number tapers off the inference is that COVID-19 has as well. Hospital bed occupancy is easily and regularly tracked data.

I have really only found county level information tracking ICU bed usage...is it being reported on regionally or nationwide somewhere. Very interesting. I have found state level after a lot of digging.

And, who is using that metric right now? I saw a fair bit of reporting on it at the end of March, but it is hard to find now. I probably am looking in the wrong places.
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
ORIGINAL: obvert




Maybe you could give a little context to why you're posing the link with me in mind?

Because it talks about several factors, two of which (masks, droplets) you might find relevant and interesting, and that you probably missed the original post because you were having a baby.

I've seen several studies previous to the one you posted which analysed in laboratory settings how facemarks can reduce the amount of a virus that is transmitted to the air as both droplets and aerosols.

The CDC also only mentioned previous studies, mostly environmental in nature (not in a lab) which studies influenza types, not Coronavirus. The study you linked before studied both, and found conclusive evidence of reduction in virus transmission when wearing a surgical mask.

Sorry if you didn't find it interesting. I thought you would.
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by RangerJoe »

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

I'm just trying to say that pursuit is important - it's what America was built on. A belief that I can be or do anything with the gifts of mind and body that my Higher Power granted to me. I'm white. Are there additional hurdles for the non-white in America? My experience and observation say "Yes" to that question. Is it better to be a male than a female when it comes to most careers in America? Again I would say yes. But I've met a lot of men and women of all shapes, sizes, and colors. Those that climbed up to a status of middle-class and higher here in America, for the most part, have had a dream that they pursued.

Working for something is important, but socioeconomic mobility in the US is much lower than is commonly mythologized - especially in modern times.

The wiki page on this actually has quite a bit of information with several citations. Synopsis: there is some bad news and some neutral news, with basically only 1 piece of news that could be called vaguely good (the part I underlined in the quote below).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioecon ... ted_States
In recent years, several studies have found that vertical intergenerational mobility is lower in the US than in some European countries.[3] US social mobility has either remained unchanged or decreased since the 1970s.[4][5][6][7] A study conducted by the Pew Charitable Trusts found that the bottom quintile is 57% likely to experience upward mobility and only 7% to experience downward mobility.[8]

A study published in 2008 showed that economic mobility in the U.S. increased from 1950 to 1980, but has declined sharply since 1980.[9]

A 2013 Brookings Institution study found income inequality was increasing and becoming more permanent, sharply reducing social mobility.[10]

A large academic study released in 2014 found US mobility overall has not changed appreciably in the last 25 years (for children born between 1971 and 1996), but a variety of up and down mobility changes were found in several different parts of the country. On average, American children entering the labor market today have the same chances of moving up in the income distribution (relative to their parents) as children born in the 1970s.[11][12]

However, because US income inequalities have increased substantially, the consequences of the "birth lottery"—the parents to whom a child is born—are larger today than in the past. US wealth is increasingly concentrated in the top 10% of American families, so children of the remaining 90% are more likely to be born at lower starting incomes today than the same children in the past. Even if they are equally mobile and climb the same distance up the US socioeconomic ladder as children born 25 years earlier, the bottom 90% of the ladder is worth less now, so they gain less income value from their climb, especially when compared to the top 10%.[11][12]

And that's just from the header... there's more, and I've could find plenty of other citations as well.

Again, that's not to say that it's impossible - just that it's harder than in the past, and also to point out that the mythologizing of "you can do anything if you only just work hard enough" as the common narrative sold to the American worker/workplace is nowhere close to the actual truth.

I could state some reasons why this is but that would get into murky areas for this thread.
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by durnedwolf »

ORIGINAL: obvert
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

I'm just trying to say that pursuit is important - it's what America was built on. A belief that I can be or do anything with the gifts of mind and body that my Higher Power granted to me. I'm white. Are there additional hurdles for the non-white in America? My experience and observation say "Yes" to that question. Is it better to be a male than a female when it comes to most careers in America? Again I would say yes. But I've met a lot of men and women of all shapes, sizes, and colors. Those that climbed up to a status of middle-class and higher here in America, for the most part, have had a dream that they pursued.

Working for something is important, but socioeconomic mobility in the US is much lower than is commonly mythologized - especially in modern times.

The wiki page on this actually has quite a bit of information with several citations. Synopsis: there is some bad news and some neutral news, with basically only 1 piece of news that could be called vaguely good (the part I underlined in the quote below).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioecon ... ted_States
In recent years, several studies have found that vertical intergenerational mobility is lower in the US than in some European countries.[3] US social mobility has either remained unchanged or decreased since the 1970s.[4][5][6][7] A study conducted by the Pew Charitable Trusts found that the bottom quintile is 57% likely to experience upward mobility and only 7% to experience downward mobility.[8]

A study published in 2008 showed that economic mobility in the U.S. increased from 1950 to 1980, but has declined sharply since 1980.[9]

A 2013 Brookings Institution study found income inequality was increasing and becoming more permanent, sharply reducing social mobility.[10]

A large academic study released in 2014 found US mobility overall has not changed appreciably in the last 25 years (for children born between 1971 and 1996), but a variety of up and down mobility changes were found in several different parts of the country. On average, American children entering the labor market today have the same chances of moving up in the income distribution (relative to their parents) as children born in the 1970s.[11][12]

However, because US income inequalities have increased substantially, the consequences of the "birth lottery"—the parents to whom a child is born—are larger today than in the past. US wealth is increasingly concentrated in the top 10% of American families, so children of the remaining 90% are more likely to be born at lower starting incomes today than the same children in the past. Even if they are equally mobile and climb the same distance up the US socioeconomic ladder as children born 25 years earlier, the bottom 90% of the ladder is worth less now, so they gain less income value from their climb, especially when compared to the top 10%.[11][12]

And that's just from the header... there's more, and I've could find plenty of other citations as well.

Again, that's not to say that it's impossible - just that it's harder than in the past, and also to point out that the mythologizing of "you can do anything if you only just work hard enough" as the common narrative sold to the American worker/workplace is nowhere close to the actual truth.

There is also the obvious follow-on that if everyone did try to work multiple jobs to get ahead and had those same dreams and goals, some would still lose out because that would be the normal, and someone still has to do the s*** work.

The American Dream simply cannot work for everyone. When that realisation seeps in somewhere between age 15 and 35, it can create a lot of frustration, anger, despair. Is it possibly a coincidence that as social mobility reduces drug use and related deaths from overdoses increase?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/611 ... by-gender/

Like I said - it's OK to agree to disagree. I'm not saying it's easy. It wasn't easy for me. I still think a person can get ahead. [8D]

Edit - and I noted gifts I was born with as a factor. We each have a set of attributes that we need to play too. Maybe you are a "brainy" kind of guy. Maybe you are really good at drawing. Or playing music. Or learning languages comes easy for you. Or taking things apart and putting them back together. I had to keep things real. It's ok to want and dream but at the end of the day I went down a road that catered to my strengths and I didn't spend too much time wringing my hands over could-have-bens. I believe that if you can find a job that you like, where you don't watch the clock 5 minutes before quitting time and you take the time to become really-really good at, I think a person will do just fine.

DW

I try to live by two words - tenacity and gratitude. Tenacity gets me where I want to go and gratitude ensures I'm not angry along the way. - Henry Winkler.

The great aim of education is not knowledge but action. - Herbert Spencer
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: obvert

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05 ... study-says

If you’re wondering whether to wear or not to wear, consider this. The day before yesterday, 21 people died of COVID-19 in Japan. In the United States, 2,129 died. Comparing overall death rates for the two countries offers an even starker point of comparison with total U.S. deaths now at a staggering 76,032 and Japan’s fatalities at 577. Japan’s population is about 38% of the U.S., but even adjusting for population, the Japanese death rate is a mere 2% of America’s.

This comes despite Japan having no lockdown, still-active subways, and many businesses that have remained open—reportedly including karaoke bars, although Japanese citizens and industries are practicing social distancing where they can. Nor have the Japanese broadly embraced contact tracing, a practice by which health authorities identify someone who has been infected and then attempt to identify everyone that person might have interacted with—and potentially infected. So how does Japan do it?

“One reason is that nearly everyone there is wearing a mask,”

It is an interesting article, but it is referencing the result of a computer model. It may very well turn out the masks are the salient factor, or it might be other things. We don't know yet, and I am quite curious to see how it all falls out.

There is no doubt that Japan is handling covid differently, though.

Japan’s Halfhearted Coronavirus Measures Are Working Anyway
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/14/ja ... n-testing/

With respect to men vs women wearing masks....I can't tell locally since mask usage seems to be at 100% locally. The only time I don't see masks is on the walking/jogging trails and runners. I suspect it probably varies a lot by how hard each region is being hit.

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Cap Mandrake
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RE: OT: Corona virus

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing
ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

The market solution is for maltreated workers to quit and for the employer to be forced to raise wages until they can find a workforce willing to do the job.

In theory. In practice, quite different as there's someone desperate enough to work under poor conditions. As others have stated, it's not as if corporate interests were strongly interested in working conditions prior to all this...


No, in this case there IS a shortage of workers willing to take the job for the pay offered, given the risk. That is exactly why they are "euthanizing" millions of chickens. To fill those jobs you would have to take an idle Disney cruise ship down to Honduras or Guatemala, promise tall blonde dancer girls and salsa picante on the cruise AND a green card and you could fill the thing up...and then after 3 or 4 weeks, they would all have $15 an hour jobs at Pollo Loco
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Lowpe
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

The market solution is for maltreated workers to quit and for the employer to be forced to raise wages until they can find a workforce willing to do the job.

In theory. In practice, quite different as there's someone desperate enough to work under poor conditions. As others have stated, it's not as if corporate interests were strongly interested in working conditions prior to all this...


No, in this case there IS a shortage of workers willing to take the job for the pay offered, given the risk. That is exactly why they are "euthanizing" millions of chickens. To fill those jobs you would have to take an idle Disney cruise ship down to Honduras or Guatemala, promise tall blonde dancer girls and salsa picante on the cruise AND a green card and you could fill the thing up...and then after 3 or 4 weeks, they would all have $15 an hour jobs at Pollo Loco

The United Food and Commercial Workers union reports that more than 70% of all beef and 60% of all pork consumed in the US is processed by UFCW workers. They have 1.3 million workers. To date they have had 73 deaths.


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Cap Mandrake
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RE: OT: Corona virus

Post by Cap Mandrake »

There is a price for which I would work at Chicken plant. The thigh would have exactly one half of the joint capsule and the rest the other half. I would demand a fresh #15 blade for every beast and air conditioning and the Mozart Oboe Concerto in C Major on the headphones....and I would would have authority to pause the line on the most sublime parts (of the Concerto, not the chicken)

Alas, nobody could afford the chicken but there would NEVER be a femur chopped off 1.5 cm from the joint.
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