AE, the real game (YH v TS mk IX)

[Kwik E Mart]

must maintain.........must not lose control..........must wait until release...........arrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

(grips fists in unbelievable agony and heads to local watering hole to numb the pain)

[Yamato hugger]

Well, I have run dozens of PH attacks, and I can safely say Erik is 100% correct. I have seen the gauntlet as well. This one has been my single biggest success quite frankly. 1 or 2 BBs is typical. I wouldnt even go as far to say that 4 BBs is the norm (at least from what I have seen). One thing I will say though in run after run, Jap aircraft losses are on the light side.

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Well, I have run dozens of PH attacks, and I can safely say Erik is 100% correct. I have seen the gauntlet as well. This one has been my single biggest success quite frankly. 1 or 2 BBs is typical. I wouldnt even go as far to say that 4 BBs is the norm (at least from what I have seen). One thing I will say though in run after run, Jap aircraft losses are on the light side.

Maybe that is normal for "surprise attack"?...With some things inherited from the original engine, perhaps that is part of the routine??

[Dili]

They always could. I tend to use some of them to get out BF, AA, and Engineers from Luzon to China by using them. I play with various mods and as long as a base in China has a port, you can do this.

Hehe always something missing, always something to learn...i played witp several times and didn't know that one.

[stuman]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: pad152

Most ships seem to be one hit wonders, this looks more like the Brit Navy (aluminum ships) in the Falklands then steel ships of WWII! 

Again, this was an extraordinarily successful PH attack. Don't make a general assumption based on it.

So T, you are saying that this is a clearly representative PH raid ?

[;)]

[racndoc]

Im a bit concerned about the effectiveness of the IJN midget subs....2 torpedo hits on 2 seperate BBs....is this an unusual result?

Do IJN midget subs automatically penetrate Pearl Harbor at the start or is there a die roll to see if they make it through the anti-submarine nets? Is there a die roll for US ASW ships such as the Ward to attack them before they enter the harbor? Are IJN midget subs going to be restricted to the the actual number that were placed in service in RL?

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Dili

They always could. I tend to use some of them to get out BF, AA, and Engineers from Luzon to China by using them. I play with various mods and as long as a base in China has a port, you can do this.

Hehe always something missing, always something to learn...i played witp several times and didn't know that one.

When I play allies, I draft every Catalina squadron I have into the air transport command. I put my B-17s and Hudsons on search missions and I use the Cats to get troops out. Frankly, I can usually evac the entire army in Malaya and about half the guys in the PI just using PBYs and the Dutch Dorniers.

The down side is, if the Jap knows what you are doing, he will bomb the evac bases and put LRCAP over them and you will lose them by the score. So the trick is to not let on whats happening until its too late.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: AdmSpruance

Im a bit concerned about the effectiveness of the IJN midget subs....2 torpedo hits on 2 seperate BBs....is this an unusual result?

Do IJN midget subs automatically penetrate Pearl Harbor at the start or is there a die roll to see if they make it through the anti-submarine nets? Is there a die roll for US ASW ships such as the Ward to attack them before they enter the harbor? Are IJN midget subs going to be restricted to the the actual number that were placed in service in RL?

The midgets must successfully launch, not get lost, get past the TFs off Pearl (one ASW and one minesweeping), get through the nets, and the minefields, navigate the channel, and survive any engagement with ASW capable ships inside the harbor.

It's random at every stage and every result is possible. Two getting in is quite rare, but it is certainly possible for all five to make it. With randoms, you could possibly see any and (eventually) all possible outcomes. Once again, don't get excited about any one outcome.

[Odin]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


The midgets must successfully launch, not get lost, get past the TFs off Pearl (one ASW and one minesweeping), get through the nets, and the minefields, navigate the channel, and survive any engagement with ASW capable ships inside the harbor.

Given the fact that this is the only job they are trained for and that to the dead, i seems ok for me...aside the fact the US side enjoys the sunny morning, not thinking of war or something.

[Speedysteve]

Not wanting to start flaming here but I'm surprised so many people are jumping up and down and spitting fire. It's one result guys. One result. I'm sure the guys have tested the PH attack 100's of times between them and the GOOD thing is that now in AE we'll get a variety of results ranging from less BB's sunk than historical to sometimes more sunk than historical. I'm in favour of this. Afterall we all know what happened historically but this is a simulation and as such the engine should give us a variety of results based upon potential realities...........

[Yamato hugger]

Frankly, this is the first time I have seen 2 subs get in and hit. I think I have seen 1 other time when 2 subs got in, but 1 missed. On the other hand, I have also only seen once where none made it in, so by far the "normal" result is 1 in and 1 hit.

[Flying Tiger]

To be honest, if all results were too close to 'normal' the game would, a) quickly become boring and predictable, and would basically be a 'one play wonder', and b) end up being one of those horrible games that people 'play' while sitting with their calculator working out who will win each and every battle before it is fought. I love the range of variable results. DONT CHANGE IT.
 
As for "is it true to history?". No! Not this time. Maybe some of the results in some games will be smack on historic figures of losses, hits, etc. But hopefully not tooo often!
 
 

[Odin]

Ok lets stop here.
 
The game is obviously ok and now release it![:D]

[SuluSea]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


The midgets must successfully launch, not get lost, get past the TFs off Pearl (one ASW and one minesweeping), get through the nets, and the minefields, navigate the channel, and survive any engagement with ASW capable ships inside the harbor.

It's random at every stage and every result is possible. Two getting in is quite rare, but it is certainly possible for all five to make it. With randoms, you could possibly see any and (eventually) all possible outcomes. Once again, don't get excited about any one outcome.

[:)] Cool as the other side of the pillow. [8D]

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Extrapolating anything from one combat report, especially with FOW, is pretty futile. But, I totally understand why everything is scrutinized and why all the questions are asked. You guys only have these results to go on and curiosity and anticipation are very high.

With that said, I always thought that the surprise attacks on December 7th actually were not typical attacks, in that they had several bonuses/penalties applied for the Japanese and Allies that don't apply on other turns (as long as Surprise is on). I don't think that has changed in AE, so I would be particularly cautious about extrapolating from a Dec. 7th surprise attack to make any assumptions about the game.

I can say for sure though that the last replay of the PH attack that I did this morning 2 BBs were lost and more Japanese planes were shot down. My sense is that the median is about 4 BBs lost, but I've seen just about every possible result. I have no idea what the average flak losses at PH are in AE, haven't really tried to keep track of that, though I know others on the team have spent a lot of time over development fine tuning many parts of the design for historical results, including flak losses.

I encourage you all to ask questions, but I also encourage you _not_ to jump to conclusions.

Regards,

- Erik

You can understand where most of us would jump at those conclusions, given that in standard WiTP if I sink two ships total with my PH strike I consider it an extraordinary event. My general result seems to be a lot of heavy damage but few sinkings.

[Terminus]

Please stop with the jumping, when you have so little to base it on.

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: Shark7
You can understand where most of us would jump at those conclusions, given that in standard WiTP if I sink two ships total with my PH strike I consider it an extraordinary event. My general result seems to be a lot of heavy damage but few sinkings.

It's one result and we've been told so many times ot NOT compare Stock to AE. It's something we haven't played and as I say i'm sure the guys have tested the PH attack 100's of times. 1 result does not make it a trend or the norm.

[Roughtor]

They show us a "movie trailer" and people go "oh the movie sucks"...  I for one, want more of the "trailer"... if we could get back to the AAR that would be great, there are so many threads now where the same dead horse (or an unborn one in this case) is getting beaten.  More AAR please, less flak.

[Speedysteve]

Agreed. Think it's farcical there's so much flak over 1 result. Move along, move along[:)]

[Nikademus]

and the makers of Star Trek thought they had it bad...... [:D]