Originally posted by dgaad Frag : Not a dumb question. Lae itself is well supported, but does not have any of the Air Force HQs stationed there. The 5th Airforce HQ is at PM, and I am moving it up to Lae once I can reduce the number of needed support at PM. However, other than providing additional support, I don't recall anything in the manual that I didn't read saying that these units help in the coordination of air operations.
I seem to recall reading in the manual that AF HQ's within a certain radius, 6 or 8 for allied, less for Japanese help with percentages of AC flying on strikes. I will double check.
There are a number of factors that can create small strikes like what you reported. To the best of my knowledge and experience, these are not bugs, as long as you are also seeing large coordinated strikes from the same base at other times.
Poor weather can result in smaller strikes while not completely closing a base. A failure in the leadership checks, morale checks and fatigue checks can result in a failure of all squadrons to properly organize and launch on a target. The lack of an Air HQ can result in problems planning and coordinating large numbers of squadrons. Air base size and support can influence this.
There is also the issue of spotting / planning. A target can be spotted with only enough time to send off a small strike before the information is too old to act on. Forming up 144 B-25s with escort takes a while. Based on the historical accounts I've read, such fragmentary strikes were not at all uncommon, particularly against moving naval targets.
Playing UV, I see more such small strikes against naval TFs than I see against stationary targets like Ports, Airfields and Ground Units. Those generally get a consistent, fully formed strike whenever the weather is decent. I find this to be realistic rather than a major problem. If I've misunderstood you, please elaborate and I'll give it another look.
Regards,
- Erik
Erik : I fully agree that this is a logical and historical system if it in fact works this way. Would this explain the same phenomenon with CAGs as well, where you have one bomber group hitting a shore target and no other CAG bombers taking off? I can understand with carrier groups that strikes would get dispersed, or even lost, but I can't understand only one bomber group taking off at all.
Perhaps a solution here would be to implement some additional messaging with respect to air operations. Additional messaging would clear up confusion, and may have the extree added bonus of revealing some coding issues.
Originally posted by Kid Ok I'm jumping in on this. I've noticed that the computer often selects the size of the strike to fit the target. Would the commanding office sent 9 bomber groups 144 plans to attack a few ships. I don't think so. What was the makeup of the fleet that was attacked? Did it have enoug HVUs to warrent 144 bombers?
Kid, a perfectly reasonable analysis. I might load up the save, which is available on this thread, and "cheat" to look at the group containing the Mogami, but that isn't any guarantee that the TF composition wasn't altered by the AI after the strike. However, we do know that the TF contained at least two cruisers -- these are big juicy targets and one would imagine bomber group commanders salivating over that. Also, there were a number of other TF targets in the same hex, yet no other bomber groups launched.
Originally posted by dgaad Also, there were a number of other TF targets in the same hex, yet no other bomber groups launched.
Then this would be a problem. I will admit I am not totally happy with the way the AI selects the air strikes but I still find it a very enjoyable game.
Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.
It took two days for an Allied Cruiser force to leave Noumea and hit Lunga.
A Japanese force of over 120 Nells and Betty's, with over 50 Zeroes in escort, all well rested, morale in the 90s, experience in the 70s to 80s, notified by countless sighting reports as the ACF left port, crossed the ocean, and hit Lunga; and not one plane attacked the force!
Operatons were not cancelled, the AB was level 4, the Air SPs were in the green.
And still my planes failed to attack.
In the last phase of that turn, 6 Bettys with 27 Zeroes in escort did decide to attack the MSW in Noumea, and got slaughtered by the 50+ Wildcat CAP.
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I was saved by the Luganville bug, the ACF went to L'ville and died.
On the way, my lone MSW docked and disbanded in port, must of got an eviction notie in the mail, for it decided to form up its own little surface combat force, and charged Noumea all alone.
Dozens of Hudsons, B-25s and B-17s fell upon the little ship, and it was smothered in a fusilade of bomb hits.
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I am not ready to shelve it yet, but I can assure you that if the 1.20 patch is not right and if it is too long coming, I will have to.
My long time PBEM wargame opponent just sent a note telling me he has shelved it until further notice.
The last straw for him was the vanishing task force.
Ok OK it has happened to me now. The entire Jap navy came down to pay me a visit on a clear day and not one bomber out of 100+ took off the runway. 100% supply, excelent moral, same hex as HQ, well within range. I now understand your pain. I lost a carrier without even a rock thrown by the LR bombers. Now it is thounderstorming and my chance of a strike has gone out the window.
Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.
Originally posted by Kid Ok OK it has happened to me now. The entire Jap navy came down to pay me a visit on a clear day and not one bomber out of 100+ took off the runway. 100% supply, excelent moral, same hex as HQ, well within range. I now understand your pain. I lost a carrier without even a rock thrown by the LR bombers. Now it is thounderstorming and my chance of a strike has gone out the window.
I would like to add that there was a Jap transport TF with about 8 ships in the area without a CAP. If the bombers would not attack the carriers because of the strong CAP they should have went for the transports. They were able to get in and unload on a base full of airctaft without much damage at all.
Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.
I swear to god there is a "sticking" going on in many games. AI that goes to sleep, UV reinforcement routines that get stuck in a cycle, groups of bombers that decide to do nothing.
I have 6 B-17s plus 2 B24s (approx. 60+20 ac) in Port Moresby and ordered them all to attack ground forces in Lae.
After a few days I noticed that although they did attack every day it was strikes containing 5-6 B17s escorted by maybe 30 P38s. At the same time I could see strikes out of Port Moresby towards the bases in Lae made up of maybe 75 B25s.
At this stage I went through all the heavy bomber units in PM and once again ordered them to attck ground forces in Lae and the next day there was a heavy attack made up of a reasonable amount of aircraft (don't remember all the details because I played this about a week ago and couldn't find the save file until today).
I've got aviation support (even 5th Airforce), supplies (not pink or red) in PM so I don't know why it behaved like this. I'm sending the file to Erik with this info anyway.
I have noticed that heavy bombers seem to fatigue faster than light bombers, and that after the second and third days they seem to only send 5 or 6 bombers out rather than the 40 or so that are base at the airfield. I have now found that by resting the LRB every second day for maybe one day, or even two, that when they are next tasked with a mission the full amount will usually launch.
Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
I use to rest my units at about 40% fatigue but in this case fatigue is 0 for all 8 units. I guess it's because they haven't been flying for a few days.
