Sphere of Influence suggestion

[WiZz]

Sovereign territory. In vast, empty space. Listen how it sounds. I lol'd...
How can you guard your own borders? The ships will be not enough. Monitoring station? Possible, but I met some extra large empire, which borders cover by scanners is very, very difficult...

[ASHBERY76]

ORIGINAL: WiZz

Sovereign territory. In vast, empty space. Listen how it sounds. I lol'd...

You do not control empty space,you control the assets in the system.Is it that hard to grasp.

[feelotraveller]

I guess it does spoil the realism of having Teekans and Kiadians and Ugnari and Wekkarus and Zenox... [:D]

[WiZz]

What about empty system? There is no scanners. How you know that enemy was there? 

[MasterChief]

Perhaps the idea of SoI and sovereign territory is farfetched when considering space ... but so is so much other stuff associated with a sci-fi game or movie, and this is sci-fi, not science journal. Boarders and sovereign territory worked in Star Trek (arguably one the most successful sci-fi collections ever) because it was just plausible enough to suspend disbelief and provided a perspective we could relate to.

What is so unbelieavable about a civilaztion, that has accrued FTL capability, declaring that no one can mine or colonize within a hunderd ligth years radius?

Of course just declaring it is only half the problem... the other half is enforcing it. I like the suggestions about "allowing coloniziation and mining in alien declared space...but at a diplomatic disadvantage. And, retaliation should be allowed with a minumal to zero rep hit (perhaps something like, the more warnings you give prior to vaperizing thier butts the less rep hits you take)". [;)]

[the1sean]

ORIGINAL: Torgrim

ORIGINAL: the1sean

ORIGINAL: Torgrim



First of all The French gave Rollo Normandy so they would stop raiding France, it was a peace treaty.
Second, did the Vikings sail all the way to America to build a up a colony and skipped Island,Greenland ect?
No, it took them 200 years to reach America, the first real Viking colonies outside Scandinavia were in close proximity and gradually they increased their range of colonial sphere.
Amongst the first West colonies were Orkney and Shetland, then England, then Iceland then Greenland and last America.
Vikings to the east started colonizing Baltic coast first then went inland slowly till they reach Kiev area.

What i mean with this Viking example is that they slowly expanded, not like in DW where AI Empires plants colonies all over the map.

The reason they had to progressively expand outward is because of tech limitations

The reason as always was supply nothing at all about tech limitations.

Sure it was a tech limit on the range that could be supplied. For instance if I have the lowest fuel storage tech, inefficient reactors, and low-speed high power usage hyperdrives, my effective supply range will be short so if I want to get across the map I have to progressively expand outward setting up supply stations/outposts. However, if those components are traded out for more efficient and high speed ones then I can operate without resupply for extended periods of time therefore effectively expanding my range of operations in supply. A good comparison is viking era sailing technology versus the naval technology commonly employed during the age of discovery. The effective supply range was extended by improved naval tech.

Either way this is kind of turning into a discussion of semantics. Currently I don't think that colonization is broken.

[Cauldyth]

ORIGINAL: feelotraveller

I guess it does spoil the realism of having Teekans and Kiadians and Ugnari and Wekkarus and Zenox... [:D]

I'm still disappointed that, while there are cats and rats and bears and bugs, Distant Worlds still has no...

Piiiiiiiigs in Spaaaaaaaace!

[the1sean]

ORIGINAL: feelotraveller

ORIGINAL: the1sean

ORIGINAL: feelotraveller

If this is to be allowed as you suggest without a war declaration at all, then I want to be able to attack any mining bases within my sphere of influence at no reputation penalty and without the need to declare war. Same thing with newly established colonies (in my former SoI) say for the period of a year even though they now produce their own sphere of influence. Otherwise I am paying reputation to enforce my sphere of influence which makes a mockery of it existing in the first place.

I suggested a harsh reputation penalty for colonizing/mining within SOI. When you attack opponents with poor reputation your reputation hits are much lower than rep hits for attacking an opponent with an awesome rep. So long story short it should actually work out well.

No way. It should not cost me any reputation to enforce my sphere of influence. In fact the argument could be made that I should get a reputation bonus for enforcing it. (Or maybe the 'lawful' trait? [:)] )

I see your point, and I actually agree. I wouldn't say that I am against the SoI colonization restrictions currently in place. I just agree that they could be modeled in more detail. To be clear, I am actually pretty ecstatic with the system currently in place. I feel that is more fully realized than almost any other territorial system that I have seen before without making the system so convoluted that it hampers the flow of gameplay.

[hal9000]

ORIGINAL: the1sean

Sure it was a tech limit on the range that could be supplied. For instance if I have the lowest fuel storage tech, inefficient reactors, and low-speed high power usage hyperdrives, my effective supply range will be short so if I want to get across the map I have to progressively expand outward setting up supply stations/outposts. However, if those components are traded out for more efficient and high speed ones then I can operate without resupply for extended periods of time therefore effectively expanding my range of operations in supply. A good comparison is viking era sailing technology versus the naval technology commonly employed during the age of discovery. The effective supply range was extended by improved naval tech.

Either way this is kind of turning into a discussion of semantics. Currently I don't think that colonization is broken.

actually you can colonize everywhere from the start, if your colony ship runs out of fuel halfway it still crawls to the target planet with I think 1/4 speed in hyperspace and thats the part I think is broken.

[the1sean]

ORIGINAL: hal9000

actually you can colonize everywhere from the start, if your colony ship runs out of fuel halfway it still crawls to the target planet with I think 1/4 speed in hyperspace and thats the part I think is broken.

Point taken, that is definitely off.

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: the1sean

ORIGINAL: hal9000

actually you can colonize everywhere from the start, if your colony ship runs out of fuel halfway it still crawls to the target planet with I think 1/4 speed in hyperspace and thats the part I think is broken.

Point taken, that is definitely off.

Well, given that the ship always remains in normal space, according to classical mechanics and Newton's laws of motion, I would say the ship shouldn't be allowed to accelerate to ftl travel without fuel. Once it's moving at that velocity, it should remain at the velocity. Of course, then there is the problem of a force that actually slows and stops the ship for arrival. [;)]

... and then ftl isn't exactly within classical mechanics in the first place ...

[Gelatinous Cube]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

ORIGINAL: the1sean

ORIGINAL: hal9000

actually you can colonize everywhere from the start, if your colony ship runs out of fuel halfway it still crawls to the target planet with I think 1/4 speed in hyperspace and thats the part I think is broken.

Point taken, that is definitely off.

Well, given that the ship always remains in normal space, according to classical mechanics and Newton's laws of motion, I would say the ship shouldn't be allowed to accelerate to ftl travel without fuel. Once it's moving at that velocity, it should remain at the velocity. Of course, then there is the problem of a force that actually slows and stops the ship for arrival. [;)]

Thankfully, DW seems to use hypothetical hypserspace mechanics, and not regular old relativity achieved via acceleration. They jump into hyperspace immediately, and it seems to be in no way tied to thrust. Speaking purely from a sci-fi-tech point of view.

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube
Thankfully, DW seems to use hypothetical hypserspace mechanics, and not regular old relativity achieved via acceleration. They jump into hyperspace immediately, and it seems to be in no way tied to thrust. Speaking purely from a sci-fi-tech point of view.

If they "jumped" from one location to another (even over a period of time) I would tend to agree completely with you. As it is now, they remain observable relative to our frame of reference in time and space--at a velocity that is both measurable and relative to other velocities.

[Gelatinous Cube]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube
Thankfully, DW seems to use hypothetical hypserspace mechanics, and not regular old relativity achieved via acceleration. They jump into hyperspace immediately, and it seems to be in no way tied to thrust. Speaking purely from a sci-fi-tech point of view.

If they "jumped" from one location to another (even over a period of time) I would tend to agree completely with you. As it is now, they remain observable relative to our frame of reference in time and space--at a velocity that is both measurable and relative to other velocities.

What about the Gravity Wells and Hyperdeny? They're left in our frame of reference for the sake of gameplay.

Although I do agree that it's silly you could colonize anywhere from the beginning, don't get me wrong.

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube
What about the Gravity Wells and Hyperdeny? They're left in our frame of reference for the sake of gameplay.

Alcubierre drive. The hyperdeny and gravity wells cause the bubble to collapse or to not form.

... what does this have to do with SOI again? hehe

[Neotheone]

This all-or-nothing (peace or war) relationship with competeing neibours is not very realistic.

You never watched Star Trek much did you? The Romulans always lived by this philosophy and the Kardasians much the same. Even the Klingons were pretty much like this except with Honor.

[Gelatinous Cube]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube
What about the Gravity Wells and Hyperdeny? They're left in our frame of reference for the sake of gameplay.

Alcubierre drive. The hyperdeny and gravity wells cause the bubble to collapse or to not form.

... what does this have to do with SOI again? hehe

So, it's warp mechanics then? The idea of using a warp bubble to achieve relative speeds while ignoring some of the laws of physics within the bubble? It's still a sci-fi mechanism for escaping the generally un-fun idea of achieving near or super-luminal speeds via pure thrust.

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube
What about the Gravity Wells and Hyperdeny? They're left in our frame of reference for the sake of gameplay.

Alcubierre drive. The hyperdeny and gravity wells cause the bubble to collapse or to not form.

... what does this have to do with SOI again? hehe

So, it's warp mechanics then? The idea of using a warp bubble to achieve relative speeds while ignoring some of the laws of physics within the bubble? It's still a sci-fi mechanism for escaping the generally un-fun idea of achieving near or super-luminal speeds via pure thrust.

well, I have no idea what it is really. Elliot is much wiser and followed the "don't explain it and let everyone fill in their own details" strategy.

... and the Alcubierre drive could be as sci-fi as Thomson and later, another great New Zealander, Ernest Rutherford, suggesting there were particles smaller than the atom.

[Gelatinous Cube]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

ORIGINAL: Malevolence



Alcubierre drive. The hyperdeny and gravity wells cause the bubble to collapse or to not form.

... what does this have to do with SOI again? hehe

So, it's warp mechanics then? The idea of using a warp bubble to achieve relative speeds while ignoring some of the laws of physics within the bubble? It's still a sci-fi mechanism for escaping the generally un-fun idea of achieving near or super-luminal speeds via pure thrust.

well, I have no idea what it is really. Elliot is much wiser and followed the "don't explain it and let everyone fill in their own details" strategy.

A strategy that always proves much less chaotic in the end. [:D]