Games that let you down

[Qwixt]

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

even after all these years of gender and race based 're-education'

what the heck are you talking about? That whole first paragraph made no sense at all. Read more like some old crazy guy bitter over some changes. Race based re-education? huh?

[Boomer78]

DSW and some other posters were in a bit of an argument earlier and gender came into the discussion... so I added my 2 cents. That sex talk might have derailed the thread a bit, but if you go back a page or so you'll see that I was just adding my views to the mix, rather than starting it.

But perhaps I should keep my mouth shut unless I need another drink.

[aaatoysandmore]

ORIGINAL: wodin

DS..you know I like you but can you give knocking those who play the AI a rest mate.

git em wodin, I'm with you man, I really hate people who hate on ai playing of computer games that's what they were made for in the first place is to give people some kind of oppenent to play against when "they" want to play not when some yoyo can play one turn a day or week. Just in turn MP is the most stupid idea they ever wasted resources on.

[berto]

I don't crap on PBEM play or any other kind of play. I just don't like it when people crap on my preferred modes of play: AI play; and hotseat solitaire (if the AI is just too insufferably poor, which it not always is).

Getting back to the OP's topic...

Games that let me down: the entire Europa Universalis series. In the final analysis, they're just glorified games of Risk.

[Terminus]

As with all the other Paradox games. Except for Crusader Kings.

[E]

ORIGINAL: Terminus
Well, it's not exactly fair to say that the game let you down because it wouldn't run on your machine. Your responsibility to make sure it can run on your box before you buy it.

While I'm sure you meant checking the game's requirements versus the box's specs (which of course was done), what you've actually described is a literal catch-22.

But in a similar vein, I ran into a disappointment with another game sold here that made no mention of requiring .Net installed prior to sale. But that wasn't so much the game, as the lack of required info from Matrix and/or the game programmer(s) (I can no longer recall which game it was, as I trashed it years ago now).

ORIGINAL: madflava13
You know you can adjust the scroll speed, right?

I've tried to find ways to slow scroll speed in various old games over the years with no success. How exactly do you do that in Talonsoft's Battle of Britain & Bombing the Reich? Or even SSI's Soldiers at War? (my three biggest offenders)

[Gilmer]

Look. I think we can all agree that AI is not currently and won't be in the near future, better than human opponents. People play against the AI for convenience.

[Terminus]

Or because they don't like other people.

[Joel Levin]

oh good gracious me.. Will you just stop trying to convince her about AI allready!!????! She doesn't like them, you do.. DONE! Nothing you say will convince the other now stop beating this allready dead horse and get back on topic please! For crying out loud if you want to rant about AIs start your own thread.

Now.. Another game that let me down was simcity 5.. I didn't actually buy and i'm glad i didn't! I love the simcity series so when they anounced the new one and i saw the curved streets and good graphics i was super hyped!! Then came the details.. Small citys.. No terraforming.. The always online requirement.. And the hordes of bugs!! Ugh.... First they ruin my civ5 and then my simcity5!

[balto]

Europa Universalis is not good and is like Risk????

That is just crazy. EU 4 is an incredible game and is nothing like Risk.

[berto]

Magna Mundi would have been several steps in the right direction. EU IV is a step backward in the wrong direction. As the old Miller Lite commercials would say, "Tastes great, less [ful]filling." EU IV is weak beer.

Glad you like EU IV. Many do. I don't.

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: Joel Levin

oh good gracious me.. Will you just stop trying to convince her about AI allready!!????! She doesn't like them, you do.. DONE! Nothing you say will convince the other now stop beating this allready dead horse and get back on topic please! For crying out loud if you want to rant about AIs start your own thread.

Now.. Another game that let me down was simcity 5.. I didn't actually buy and i'm glad i didn't! I love the simcity series so when they anounced the new one and i saw the curved streets and good graphics i was super hyped!! Then came the details.. Small citys.. No terraforming.. The always online requirement.. And the hordes of bugs!! Ugh.... First they ruin my civ5 and then my simcity5!

Who the hell is trying to convince "DSWargamer" about AI? I'm trying to convince them that being a douchebag about it is a bad thing.

[wodin]

Terminus and berto thanks for the support but lets just forget it about it all. DS comes across a certain way on forums..but really doesn't mean any harm. I think people should be abit more considerate of other gamers wants and accept what they enjoy and leave it at that.

[Darkspire]

Who the hell is trying to convince "DSWargamer" about AI?

Me [:D]

Judging by the lack of a reply and the smell of burning I think I failed [:'(]

I was really hoping that AI would become as important as GFX in games when dual core processors appeared moons ago, I have only seen a few, IMO, good AI programmers in the last 10+ years and even less games that have a really competent one, I really do not enjoy multiplayer at all, I much prefer to play against an AI, trouble is the consoles took a step up and multiplayer became the predominant norm, the PC is the last surviving bastion of light and hope that it will get better, we have oodles more processing power now and I for one would like to see that employed in creating AI's that not only surprise me in there intelligence but kick my ass at the same time.

Darkspire

[Punzer]

Diablo 3 is another game that I feel has truly let me down. I had liked Diablo and Diablo 2, so I felt comfortable pre-ordering Diablo 3 and did so rather early. Yeah, my own fault for getting all excited. It was great at times, but between the Auction Houses dictating loot drops and the server issues which often hit late in the night when I game, I had less and less fun as I progressed. It's not a busted game of course, but my expectations were so high because of the stellar quality of the earlier games that I couldn't help but notice Diablo 3, unlike Diablo 2, was not entirely a step forward for the franchise. At least not to me.

[Terminus]

Eh, Diablo 3 had flaws, but I still completed it. Haven't been back since, of course...[;)]

[Punzer]

ORIGINAL: Darkspire

Who the hell is trying to convince "DSWargamer" about AI?

Me [:D]

Judging by the lack of a reply and the smell of burning I think I failed [:'(]

I was really hoping that AI would become as important as GFX in games when dual core processors appeared moons ago, I have only seen a few, IMO, good AI programmers in the last 10+ years and even less games that have a really competent one, I really do not enjoy multiplayer at all, I much prefer to play against an AI, trouble is the consoles took a step up and multiplayer became the predominant norm, the PC is the last surviving bastion of light and hope that it will get better, we have oodles more processing power now and I for one would like to see that employed in creating AI's that not only surprise me in there intelligence but kick my ass at the same time.

Darkspire

Me too! I would love a true and sophisticated AI, but until humans are upgraded with multi-core processors and actually use them, I think we might have to call real AI the "Holy Grail" of coding. We can code for specialized and limited operations, like chess (and even that took how much time, money, and effort?), but our favorite wargames aren't as simple and as abstract as chess, where the attacker always wins and the board is void of all environmental factors excepting solely whether it is a light or dark square and then only provides 64 of them to play on.

[Darkspire]

ORIGINAL: Pika

Diablo 3 is another game that I feel has truly let me down. I had liked Diablo and Diablo 2, so I felt comfortable pre-ordering Diablo 3 and did so rather early. Yeah, my own fault for getting all excited. It was great at times, but between the Auction Houses dictating loot drops and the server issues which often hit late in the night when I game, I had less and less fun as I progressed. It's not a busted game of course, but my expectations were so high because of the stellar quality of the earlier games that I couldn't help but notice Diablo 3, unlike Diablo 2, was not entirely a step forward for the franchise. At least not to me.

Rumor was back in the day that although Diablo III was held back a few times it was not just because of problems, Titan Quest appeared and was very similar which was supposed to have caused a major rethink, D3 should have been released years before it eventually became available, like somewhere about 06-07, I love D2 and still play it on the odd day, even have Diablo still installed with all the addons on an old machine, D3 really was a total letdown, I am glad I never bought it, played it over on a friends machine and just came away thinking it was a rip off of Titan Quest with some different bells and whistles, you can pick up Titan Quest Gold for a fiver on Amazon, it is a brilliant game, great graphics, story and gameplay, plenty of mods and addons as well, like the Titan Quest Vault, a must have if you play it seriously. Torchlight 1+2 are good as well, not as good as TQ IMO, but close. There is also Grim Dawn which is made by the same folks that made TQ, that is really shaping up well, I have been following its development and have been really impressed by the way it is going.

This page has a really good video about half way down so you can see what I mean.

Darkspire

[Punzer]

ORIGINAL: Darkspire


Rumor was back in the day that although Diablo III was held back a few times it was not just because of problems, Titan Quest appeared and was very similar which was supposed to have caused a major rethink, D3 should have been released years before it eventually became available, like somewhere about 06-07, I love D2 and still play it on the odd day, even have Diablo still installed with all the addons on an old machine, D3 really was a total letdown, I am glad I never bought it, played it over on a friends machine and just came away thinking it was a rip off of Titan Quest with some different bells and whistles, you can pick up Titan Quest Gold for a fiver on Amazon, it is a brilliant game, great graphics, story and gameplay, plenty of mods and addons as well, like the Titan Quest Vault, a must have if you play it seriously. Torchlight 1+2 are good as well, not as good as TQ IMO, but close. There is also Grim Dawn which is made by the same folks that made TQ, that is really shaping up well, I have been following its development and have been really impressed by the way it is going.

Darkspire

I have played and enjoyed Titan Quest and I agree it is a far better game than Diablo 3. I run a Mac right now, but I might get another PC in the near future. If it looks like I will, I'll check out Grim Dawn. Thanks for the notice.

[DSWargamer]

Well as the thread is 'Games that let you down'. I'm inclined to think 'computer games' and not waste a lot of time specifying particular examples, as I think so much of the problem is computer games, and that includes consoles, as a console is just another form of methodology of delivery, much like a car and a truck are just forms of conveyance with specific ways of getting the objective accomplished.

When I was a kid, playing games meant playing them with people. WITH PEOPLE MEANT THAT THEY WERE ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY PRESENT THOUGH!.

Modern life though has resulted in so much of society accepting that playing a game solo was acceptable. Some of us simply don't agree though.

I have no real background with MMOs simply because my background is with pen and paper. I've watched them for a long time, I know they well enough from having friends that play them and my son plays them. There's nothing really special about them though, any more than some cars are Ladas and some are Porches and I am not impressed by being told how great a Ford is.

They removed the one aspect from the experience that mattered. Being with friends.

I would never have gotten interested in wargames, if my first encounter had been with one on a machine though, and that includes every wargame we've ever seen. My first taste was Tactic II and my reply was 'wow, almost like chess, but so much more detailed'. Then I discovered Squad Leader and Panzer Blitz and Third Reich. But they were all played with local friends. And Squad Leader will always be the ABBA game as my regular local friend opponent was Swedish and we played a lot of ABBA when we gamed. Third Reich was also impacted by the way my silly friend would act all ridiculous while being the Germans. He usually played the Germans so I tended to act very silly as the Allies. To listen to us, you would have thought we were completely nuts.

None of that exists with games where it is just you and the machine. I actually feel pity if you have come to LIKE being just you and the machine and a dreadfully stupid opponent. You might not like my pity, but you are going to have to deal with it, as I am not planning to stop pitying you willing loners any time soon. I'd probably pity you even if the AIs were good. Actually, I likely would, as you would just be more convinced that a human wasn't as much fun.

Humans are social creatures after all. I enjoy doing anything more so when I have company. It's more fun to shop with someone, it is more fun to bake with someone, it is more fun to watch a movie with someone. I even like reading a book knowing someone else is in the room.

I have often felt sad, that we have used our computers more as companions, than as tools. Because, there is really no reason that our computers are not being used as bridges to bring board games a bit closer together. It's sad that Vassal is not more enthusiastically embraced as an idea. I also wish the virtual table top would hurry up and evolve faster. I'd love to enjoy the graphical enhancements instead of all the paper clutter at the table getting in the way of the minis and the books. I think it would be cool if the gang was all lounging in chairs and seeing the game appear on the hosts 40+ inch TV screen.

I don't want my computer to be my opponent, I want it to make it so my table is not required, so that the game board is the TV screen and neither I nor my friends have to wreck our backs constantly reaching over a map that is measured in feet not inches.

So yes, if you want to know, 'what games have let you down?' I'd be saying digital games. They have failed humanity, in allowing us to not require humans to play them. It's like listening to people explain the virtues of playing hide and seek alone and how Solitaire is more fun than a poker night with the gang. Sorry boys, it doesn't wash, and for those that think it is a great thing to not need to play against other, you have my pity.