So is it playable yet?

[Zorachus99]

ORIGINAL: smitht2ls
2. Focus on getting a basic AI released in the next month.

You make funny joke! [:D]

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

ORIGINAL: smitht2ls
2. Focus on getting a basic AI released in the next month.

You make funny joke! [:D]

Be nice Zor this was only his 3rd post since 2004, he does not post much but when he does............Oy vey [;)]

Personally I would love to see an AI released next month, hmm doubt it [:(]

Bo

[WarHunter]

To all that wish we had an AI,

I totally agree with your opinion about an AI shipping with computer games. It's a no-brainer. You and i have very similar experience with games and AI. Early computer war-games had to have an AI. The infrastructure to NetPlay was just not there. Tigers in the Snow is a good example of a early war-game. SSI created many titles that were just great. All had AI. The whole foundation for today's AI's are founded with those oldies but goodies.

Even during that time, WiF was one of the only boardgames i was still playing with gaming buddies. Think about this. WiF is played by up to 6 players. Add beer and beans, each player contributes more raw computing power than any CPU in existence today. That's not to say we focus all of it. [:D]

Creating an AI for WiF is a hell of a thing to do. To dare greatly is what being human is all about. I expect one day to see that MWiF AI. It will take some time to get there. Alot more time than TCPIP will. We need NetPlay to bring the MWiF community together and playing. I challenge anyone on this to prove this as wrong headed.

When the players around the world are playing. The door opens for Steve and his AI for MWiF. The game has to be stable first. It has to be able to play between humans. We are the ultimate gamer in the MWiF arena.

Without the Human element the AI is nothing. An entire Planet of MWiF players to choose from is greater than any AI envisioned in the near future. The sheer number of options make me shudder to think an AI wil be able to navigate the myriad combinations. It will take the entire community around the world to find those little hidden bugs before any AI. Because we will playing it Person to Person on the magical net highway.

Switching gears to prioritize the AI now, will not happen. I just don't see it. I want to see an AI. Any AI takes a backseat to Bo, AxelNL, Centuur, warspite1, Shellshock, Zorachus99, Dabrion, alex_van_d, and dozens more players who feel and think and live today all together at this point in time. An AI can be for the next generation of MWiF players for all i care. NetPlay is a much easier project to complete after the stable game platform.

My gut feeling is that it was always intended to be NetPlay first. But the game does need to be stable as a foundation to play the game. That's where we need to be now. Maybe if they marketed MWiF as a beta early release, they could have had much more respect among some of the more disappointed buyers. That's just a simple fantasy easy to dismiss from today's reality.

Anyone interested in looking at the history of Netplay need only go to the Sticky Thread MWIF Monthly Reports. You will see 2012 as possibly the key year where NetPlay had major surgery. Feb 2012 is a good month to read.

What kind of NetPlay options are we gonna get?

[majordefeat]

ORIGINAL: smitht2ls

WiF was the holy grail of gaming for me. Purchased my first copy in Reno Neveda in 89/90.

Have been following MWiF development from the start on this forum. Was very excited to buy MWiF and am enjoying playing the solitare game.

To me the fatal decision was to go with NetPlay at release and not a basic AI. By basic I mean an AI that could execute a historic type strategy for the major powers.

If this is my project my priorities are:
1. Cleanup issues such as supply/oil.
2. Focus on getting a basic AI released in the next month.
3. Get netplay to work for Local LANs

To me netplay is the single hardest option to implement for MWiF and should have been addon module.

I have been wondering about LAN play

Maybe the best solution here which might require no new programming is perhaps for one player to run a solo or hot seat game, and for other player/s to connect to that machine via remote desktop. I have no idea if that interface would work but the idea would be the solo player w wif running is running the engine and the user connected remotely is pushing units around etc during appropriate phases.

Also let me apologise to anyone inc programmer and betas if my post re not wanting to participate in any of the extensive work in developing wif seemed churlish. Didn't mean to diminish the contributions that everyone made who did participate in that development.

[YohanTM]

ORIGINAL: Dorb

ORIGINAL: YohanTM

When I started this thread is was too simply check in as I had been traveling and wanted some feedback on where the game sat. I guess I should have expected a few trolls.

Hell, that was answered with the first post.[;)]
The rest is just "splash" damage. [:D]

Funny Dorb...and true

[bo]

First to Major, please no apoligies necessary to the testers at least from my stand point. I have only been testing for a short period of time, some of the testers have been here for 6 years or more, that is drudgery. They did work hard even though it sure did not look like it with the release of Nov. 7th now did it. Appreciate your comment in these not so good MWIF times.

Now to my esteemed [:(] cyber friend form San Diego whos name I have already forgotten[:D]

Well not really, lets see "I challenge anyone on this to prove this as wrong headed" Hmmmm! My dear warhunter, now we all know I am dumb enough to challenge you [:(] This game was not designed IMHO with only you and your friends in mind, it was designed for the whole computer war gaming world, I know that will come as a shock to you and your drinking buddies.

But lets move on shall we, just supposing, and I really dont have a clue at this moment, that because MWIF is not the common U go I go type of game that we see at Matrix which seems to work with TCP/IP with some other games, that because of all the back and forth decisions that must be made during each phase and each impulse that netplay becomes a tragic impossibility to code properly, do we trash this game?

You say your gut feeling is that it was always intended to be net play first, wow, who have you been talking to your long lost uncle Harry Rowland.

Just teasing I have no idea what the intenions were. I believe an AI is doable, am I sure of that, NO JUST A GUT FEELING! [;)] With its 73,000 hexes it would be a monumental task for any programmer, maybe we should call on the programmers of Big Blue when they created their chess game, but that probably would not help as they only had to deal with 64 hexes.

You know the old saying my dear warhunter, California could fall into the sea at any moment while waiting for good things to happen like net play. Cheese on that steak sandwich? [&:]

I too would like a netplay feature, would it not be great fun to have my Panzers and my Whermacht closing in on Paris and its your impulse to defend and your wife says we have to go to my mothers "NOW, RIGHT NOW", you can finish that tomorrow, I would be able to say okay warhunter I understand [:@] I will be able to play the AI to you get back .[&o] Hmmmmm!

Your Philly friend, or is that silly friend[&:]

Bo

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

To all that wish we had an AI,

I totally agree with your opinion about an AI shipping with computer games. It's a no-brainer. You and i have very similar experience with games and AI. Early computer war-games had to have an AI. The infrastructure to NetPlay was just not there. Tigers in the Snow is a good example of a early war-game. SSI created many titles that were just great. All had AI. The whole foundation for today's AI's are founded with those oldies but goodies.

Even during that time, WiF was one of the only boardgames i was still playing with gaming buddies. Think about this. WiF is played by up to 6 players. Add beer and beans, each player contributes more raw computing power than any CPU in existence today. That's not to say we focus all of it. [:D]

Creating an AI for WiF is a hell of a thing to do. To dare greatly is what being human is all about. I expect one day to see that MWiF AI. It will take some time to get there. Alot more time than TCPIP will. We need NetPlay to bring the MWiF community together and playing. I challenge anyone on this to prove this as wrong headed.

When the players around the world are playing. The door opens for Steve and his AI for MWiF. The game has to be stable first. It has to be able to play between humans. We are the ultimate gamer in the MWiF arena.

Without the Human element the AI is nothing. An entire Planet of MWiF players to choose from is greater than any AI envisioned in the near future. The sheer number of options make me shudder to think an AI wil be able to navigate the myriad combinations. It will take the entire community around the world to find those little hidden bugs before any AI. Because we will playing it Person to Person on the magical net highway.

Switching gears to prioritize the AI now, will not happen. I just don't see it. I want to see an AI. Any AI takes a backseat to Bo, AxelNL, Centuur, warspite1, Shellshock, Zorachus99, Dabrion, alex_van_d, and dozens more players who feel and think and live today all together at this point in time. An AI can be for the next generation of MWiF players for all i care. NetPlay is a much easier project to complete after the stable game platform.

My gut feeling is that it was always intended to be NetPlay first. But the game does need to be stable as a foundation to play the game. That's where we need to be now. Maybe if they marketed MWiF as a beta early release, they could have had much more respect among some of the more disappointed buyers. That's just a simple fantasy easy to dismiss from today's reality.

Anyone interested in looking at the history of Netplay need only go to the Sticky Thread MWIF Monthly Reports. You will see 2012 as possibly the key year where NetPlay had major surgery. Feb 2012 is a good month to read.

What kind of NetPlay options are we gonna get?

Now, this is a post that I 100% agree on...

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

To all that wish we had an AI,

I totally agree with your opinion about an AI shipping with computer games. It's a no-brainer. You and i have very similar experience with games and AI. Early computer war-games had to have an AI. The infrastructure to NetPlay was just not there. Tigers in the Snow is a good example of a early war-game. SSI created many titles that were just great. All had AI. The whole foundation for today's AI's are founded with those oldies but goodies.

Even during that time, WiF was one of the only boardgames i was still playing with gaming buddies. Think about this. WiF is played by up to 6 players. Add beer and beans, each player contributes more raw computing power than any CPU in existence today. That's not to say we focus all of it. [:D]

Creating an AI for WiF is a hell of a thing to do. To dare greatly is what being human is all about. I expect one day to see that MWiF AI. It will take some time to get there. Alot more time than TCPIP will. We need NetPlay to bring the MWiF community together and playing. I challenge anyone on this to prove this as wrong headed.

When the players around the world are playing. The door opens for Steve and his AI for MWiF. The game has to be stable first. It has to be able to play between humans. We are the ultimate gamer in the MWiF arena.

Without the Human element the AI is nothing. An entire Planet of MWiF players to choose from is greater than any AI envisioned in the near future. The sheer number of options make me shudder to think an AI wil be able to navigate the myriad combinations. It will take the entire community around the world to find those little hidden bugs before any AI. Because we will playing it Person to Person on the magical net highway.

Switching gears to prioritize the AI now, will not happen. I just don't see it. I want to see an AI. Any AI takes a backseat to Bo, AxelNL, Centuur, warspite1, Shellshock, Zorachus99, Dabrion, alex_van_d, and dozens more players who feel and think and live today all together at this point in time. An AI can be for the next generation of MWiF players for all i care. NetPlay is a much easier project to complete after the stable game platform.

My gut feeling is that it was always intended to be NetPlay first. But the game does need to be stable as a foundation to play the game. That's where we need to be now. Maybe if they marketed MWiF as a beta early release, they could have had much more respect among some of the more disappointed buyers. That's just a simple fantasy easy to dismiss from today's reality.

Anyone interested in looking at the history of Netplay need only go to the Sticky Thread MWIF Monthly Reports. You will see 2012 as possibly the key year where NetPlay had major surgery. Feb 2012 is a good month to read.

What kind of NetPlay options are we gonna get?

Now, this is a post that I 100% agree on...

I cant imagine that Mr. centuur [:(]

Bo

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

I was simply commenting on Shaddocks analysis. If the lesson you learn from this project is "complex wargames are generally hard to bring to the computer", then you fail to see the whole picture. Some parts of the decision-making that lead to the mess we see today were perhaps more important, than the inherent complexity of the problem. When you want to get a proper assessment you have to ask the right questions (beyond "who did it", as it is not about blame).

Please spare me with another iteration of the "no takers, we can be so glad they picked it up" argument. There never was a competition, else I would have know about it.

p.s.: Rather than interpreting everything I say in terms of personal attacks think about facts for moment. I don't care for Matrix and/or Steve.. beyond the fact that they dropped the ball on this project.. big time

I just wanted to say thank you for a very well thought out response to my post. Very nicely done and helps clarify your position for me.

[Dorb]

ORIGINAL: YohanTM

ORIGINAL: Dorb

ORIGINAL: YohanTM

When I started this thread is was too simply check in as I had been traveling and wanted some feedback on where the game sat. I guess I should have expected a few trolls.

Hell, that was answered with the first post.[;)]
The rest is just "splash" damage. [:D]

Funny Dorb...and true

Yep, shame it was not locked down after that first one from Warspite1. Maybe would have helped with some of the high blood pressure situations created.[:@]

Hey, for folks that need a WWII fix while we wait, why not grab Commander:Europe at war it's not bad and only $10. It's on the light side but may lighten up the mood. [:D]

[smitht2ls]

Understand the passion for netplay. But with so many unit counters, popup windows and phasing screens every impulse the latency has to be high which will cause a lot of timeouts. I believe it will be difficult to play.

Having said that, as majordefeat mentioned, there are dozens of remote access programs that could possibly be used to remotely play MWiF now. I believe netmeeting, citrix to go, webex or even lync type programs would work. Setup a host computer and go.

Bo - I mostly lurk forums and typically find like minded posters that voice opinions I agree with. I find no need to post. My greatest hope is that Matrix continues to support MWiF fully.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: smitht2ls

Understand the passion for netplay. But with so many unit counters, popup windows and phasing screens every impulse the latency has to be high which will cause a lot of timeouts. I believe it will be difficult to play.

Having said that, as majordefeat mentioned, there are dozens of remote access programs that could possibly be used to remotely play MWiF now. I believe netmeeting, citrix to go, webex or even lync type programs would work. Setup a host computer and go.

Bo - I mostly lurk forums and typically find like minded posters that voice opinions I agree with. I find no need to post. My greatest hope is that Matrix continues to support MWiF fully.

I wish you would post more Smitty, I was teasing slightly a fault of mind I guess. Actually I was hoping you were not offended by the good Zora laughing at your AI in the next month. He drives that lowly Jagd Panther instead of the Jadg Tiger.

Bo

[Sabre21]

While I would prefer a good AI, I had hoped Netplay would have been a good thing until an AI was available. I quit solo play about a month after release once I relearned the system and tried various strategies.

Bloodybill and I do Netplay after each patch and we don't see any lag time between what we move or the multitude of pop-ups. Since we live only a few miles apart we are usually on the phone talking thru what each other is doing to try and see what is and what is not working properly. There are certain aspects in Netplay that are still borked up like surprise port attack, but as far as latency, we haven't seen any of that...crashes on the other hand...oh yea.

[paulderynck]

deleted

[HansHafen]

AI will never work for this game. So releasing it without an AI isn't a mistake.

[Schnaufer]

Without knowing what the contract structures are between developer and publisher, it's hard to see who is more to blame. For a title that generated interest for years on the forums, to me it is a bit of a letdown. Always saw folks asking for progress reports over the years, and sometimes there was a large gap without hearing anything.
I give Matrix credit for telling people on the product page that it was shipping w/o an AI, with the massive amounts of phases per turn , this always seemed to pose a problem for 2 person remote play.
WiF has a very complicated turn structure, and some things seem to be a little out of touch with how reality would work.

Good luck to those sticking with it, but I am starting to sour on the whole wargaming front. Titles are being churned out with bugs, and while squashing some bug, some are claiming these are new "features". Huh ? A squashed bug is just that, not a new feature.

[Erik Rutins]

Please see the new "State of the Game" post here:

tm.asp?m=3571077

Thank you all for your patience, we're hopeful that this new tack will give us all good results.

Regards,

- Erik

[Dabrion]

How is this new tack, all I read is yadda, yadda, same old, same old, can't bind my laces.. tripped over.. oups.. basically the bullshit you wrote in November, December and January until you lost interest. If this is a clumsy attempt at an apology.. it is not accepted!

I know the past.. I don't need you to break it down to me, thank you very much! Follow that post up with some data for my brain to process, because there is nothing in there! Z E R O! How about some results you want to achieve and how long it will take..

[bo]

Bo

[bo]

ORIGINAL: HansHafen

AI will never work for this game. So releasing it without an AI isn't a mistake.

Not looking to flame anything here HansHafen but are you a programmer or is this an uneducated guess? "AI will never work for this game" Possibly it might not work, I agree with that but how about we give Steve a chance to find out first. But then what do I know?

Thanks for your comment but I would like to know how many games you bought in the last ten years that have no AI [:(] Be honest now [;)]

Bo