NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs NY59Giants (A) - Between the Storms

[John 3rd]

Do BOTH!

1. You have CarDiv1 (Akagi--Amagi--CAV) and CarDiv5 (Sho--Zui--CAV) to hit Pearl. There are additional ships there including a modern CL or two extra.
2. Use CarDiv2 (Hiryu--Soryu--CVL Ryukaku) to hit Manila. Cebu is an alternate base here so there are SS and support shipping there. I wouldn't hit that as the premise is Hart moves those assets there on or about Dec 2-3rd.

Remember you have three CVL at Can Rahn Bay too...

My .02.

[John 3rd]

Another important note: Your IJN pilot quality is down across-the-board by 10-15%. This is a direct result of Yamamoto beginning a real training program and expansion of the Fleet Air Arm.

[Cribtop]

Hmm, interesting thoughts. And yes, the idea with Cebu was to move later on that.

[Cribtop]

Test for sig pic

[Cribtop]

test 2

Well, obviously having a little trouble linking to Shutterfly. Good news is I have the scenario up on my machine and I'm working on Turn 1.

OK, sort of got it working. Thanks again to Obvert for the great SigArt.

[John 3rd]

Glory and Blessings upon the Empire of Japan!

LOVE your Kongo BC Signature...

[Cribtop]

And now, some housekeeping items!

SETTINGS

ON:

Advanced Weather
PDU
Allied dmg control
FoW
Realistic R&D
Dec 7th Surprise

OFF:

Reliable USN Torps
Historical first turn
No Unit Withdrawals

HOUSE RULES

First turn

Allied – Can give orders to only units at sea, no new TFs, land or air movements or changing orders for LBA. China is exempt from this rule.

Japan – Multiple port strikes with carriers participating in strikes with LBA. None with just LBA. No gamey warp invasion, like Mersing, Singkawang, or Ambon.

No hunting of Allied CV's during the first turn.

Air

No 4E below 10,000ft. - Restricted to 10k or higher for naval and ground attacks (does not include PBY/Mavis type patrol craft).

Aircraft Limitations (reflecting the Between the Storm/RA Mods):
-No A6M3 on CVEs
-No A6M4 on any form of Carrier
-A7M Sam and B7A-D Grace cannot be operated from CVEs

General

PPs must be paid when changing theater.

No strategic bombing anywhere until 1 July 1943.

Thai units may freely enter Burma and Malaya, but require PP's to enter India or China.

No invasions or paradrops on non-base hexes.

[Cribtop]

A few comments on the HRs:

1) We are using Symon's air war modifications and thus hope to avoid the need for any altitude or maneuver band restrictions.

2) No strat bombing until July '43 helps me in the DEI and at Magwe. It helps Michael in Oz and China. I thought hard about this one given the latest vogue of strat bombing in Australia but decided it was ok.

3) Multiple port strikes so long as CV air participates. This is very bad news for Allied shipping in Manila and Pearl Harbor, IMHO.

[Cribtop]

I am working through the horrid beast that is Turn 1, but I must say that the more logical IJN fleet dispositions and layout in Between the Storms is helping with that. Very interesting to see 6 CVs and 6 CVLs (and 3 CVEs) ready for action on day 1. I also like that Saipan is a developed base. Helpful starting point for moves on Wake.

I am struggling a bit to remember some of the economic stuff. Thus, some questions.

I know I need to crank Vehicle production a bit. We start at around 115. I vaguely recall that 200 was a good number - is that right?

How much do you guys increase the smaller shipyards in total?

For aircraft R&D, assuming I want 7X30 on my fighters (Zero, Tojo, Frank, George, Sam), a little on Helen and Peggy (maybe 3X30 each), and a night fighter (3X30?), which factories do you re-purpose in order to be most efficient? Some planes are useless but a few I wouldn't mind continuing the at start research effort. Obviously I've got a lot of factories to convert. Which ones are best for conversion and increase?

Also on R&D, what is the "correct" setting for upgrade/repair/production? Is it no/yes/no?

[Cribtop]

And now a comment on "THE PLAN."

Taking the DEI fast is priority 1. I also want to magic move KB3 (Hiryu, Soryu and a new CVL) to link up with the 3 CVLs from Cam Ranh Bay at a point near Manila. This force will paste Manila in co-operation with LBA from Formosa. After that, I am considering 2 options.

Option 1 - This powerful 2 CV/4 CVL force stays together and supports invasions of Manila, Borneo and Palembang. Then it shifts to the eastern DEI for invasions along the Manado/Ambon/Kendari/Timor axis. Safer but slower.

Option 2 - The force divides again and KB 3 supports one side of the invasions above while the 3 CVLs support the other. This allows simultaneous moves along both axes. Faster but riskier.

I am currently leaning toward option 1 given that Allied resistance will be stronger than in stock and that my overall war plan is not dependent on a rapid move into Phase 2 during the invasion bonus period. What do y'all think of these options?

[Cribtop]

Any help on the questions posed above?

On another note, after an exhaustive review I have concluded that Japanese night fighters fall into one of two classes:

1) Night fighters that arrive too late to be of any practical value.

2) Sh#tty night fighters.

Any thoughts on this dilemma? Ideally I'd have a plane with decent speed, multiple cannons (but not the inaccurate 37mm and its ilk) and it would arrive around July '43 in time to defend strat bombing. I can probably wait past that date a bit, but not too long. What's the best plane among the not so good options?

[Mike McCreery]

I played the Japanese once... Just once... Lasted a whole 21 days!!!

So, although I would love to be of some assistance I fear any advice I give you would likely be more detrimental than helpful.

So, there is that...

[John 3rd]

BOTH axis of advance...

[Cribtop]

No worries, Wargmr. The economy is complex all right.

Can always count on John to be aggressive! There is an argument for his position though. Realistically, the Allies can get crappy Dutch planes, the Banshees (scary but not numerous), Hermes and the two CVLs that start in SOPAC in this mod into action quickly in the DEI. The forces allotted should be able to handle that, especially if KB3 is assigned to the eastern DEI where they are more likely to show up. Hmm.

[Capt. Harlock]

Congrats on the new signature graphic. (The Kongos were more useful than the Yamato off Samar, weren't they...)

[Cribtop]

Thanks! Obvert made it and deserves the credit.

And yes, I really do like the Kongos. Cool name, great looking, effective in game and effective IRL.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

I know I need to crank Vehicle production a bit. We start at around 115. I vaguely recall that 200 was a good number - is that right?

How much do you guys increase the smaller shipyards in total?

For vehicles I'm not sure. Do you have extra units in this mod? Is it front or back heavy in terms of continued OOB throughout the war? You might be fine with just leaving it as is and never turning them off for the duration.

Because I don't make a lot of the ships in the queue I don't increase shipyards. I know this mod is different though, and maybe there are extra ships you really want to make that would require an increase. I usually don't make Musashi, which keeps the Naval shipyards in the black and also able to accelerate some CVs. You may not need to accelerate though, given what you have in the scenario.

For merchies I've stopped almost all ships other than the tankers, AO, and xAP. Obviously the CVE and LSD would be necessities, but the gazillion xAK and xAKL seem superfluous.

For aircraft R&D, assuming I want 7X30 on my fighters (Zero, Tojo, Frank, George, Sam), a little on Helen and Peggy (maybe 3X30 each), and a night fighter (3X30?), which factories do you re-purpose in order to be most efficient? Some planes are useless but a few I wouldn't mind continuing the at start research effort. Obviously I've got a lot of factories to convert. Which ones are best for conversion and increase?

Also on R&D, what is the "correct" setting for upgrade/repair/production? Is it no/yes/no?

For my past two games as Japan I've gone 5 x 30 A6M, 3 x 30 Tojo, 3 x 30 + 1 x 55 Frank Ki-84a, 2 x 30 Frank Ki-84b, 4 x 30 George, 3 x 30 Sam. As well as 2 x 30 Jack. 3 x 30 Tony > Ki-100 (but I don't chose to make any Ki-61 now). 3 x 30 Ki-83. Also 2 x 30 Ki-43 at least to get Oscars to a letter version. [:)]

For bombers 3 x 30 Helen seems fine. I do 3 x 30 Peggy (T), 1 x 30 Peggy. 2 x 30 Frances.

For NF I'd plan to build ALL of them you can use. The Ki-45 Id, the Ki-46 III KAI Dinah, the J1S1 Irving and the A6M5-S. I also built the Peggy NF which wasn't too bad. The Denko and Randy Ic are by far the best options, but can you move them far enough ahead to be useful? You'll need at least 2 x 30 for the Randy to get to a useful date, maybe more for the Denko (unless these come earlier in this mod).

For a useful kami plane you can research the Ki-115. Also the Myoko is a Val upgrade and carries an 800kg bomb, so you could keep Val research going and then upgrade to this for the late war at little cost.

no/yes/no is what is suggested to keep them as R n D when they're fully researched, but you still have to monitor to make sure they don't upgrade. I just make sure and check on the turnover of the month and change them if the plane is due the next month.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Any help on the questions posed above?

On another note, after an exhaustive review I have concluded that Japanese night fighters fall into one of two classes:

1) Night fighters that arrive too late to be of any practical value.

2) Sh#tty night fighters.

Any thoughts on this dilemma? Ideally I'd have a plane with decent speed, multiple cannons (but not the inaccurate 37mm and its ilk) and it would arrive around July '43 in time to defend strat bombing. I can probably wait past that date a bit, but not too long. What's the best plane among the not so good options?

The J1N1-SA is not too bad. It was seemingly more accurate and durable than the other options.

The Dinah III KAI died in droves, and yet protected bases well. The A6M5-S did surprisingly well (climb rate) but is fragile. The

Peggy NF

EDIT: Frances NF was a surprise. Durable, which counts for an NF, and pretty fast.

It's really more about numbers, so plan to make a lot and access ALL units that can upgrade to NF. There are some weird ones, like the recon groups that upgrade, the FP group that upgrades at one point.

The Nick Id is one I hadn't planned on using, but all of the FB groups will upgrade to it, so that gives you and extra 150 - 200 NF if you build it. Well worth it, but probably a mediocre performer. Still, it's more about how many you can get in the air.

[JocMeister]

What Erik said.

If you followed my AAR in my game against him you know the insane losses I took over the HI. Numbers will be your best friend...I think I lost quite close to 1 B29 for each NF when flying on Extended range from the Marianas. And that was using some insane pilots (usually +90 EXP). It got a little bit better once I got into normal range. But not by much and by then since most the 90 EXP pilots were gone.

[Lowpe]

Obvert is the expert here with night fighters.[&o]

There is 21 squadrons that can become night fighters, and some get removed...not sure with your mod.

You need the Dinah night fighter because there is one very large group that can upgrade to it. The Nick KAId simply because there are so many IJA groups that upgrade to it and it is the first IJA night fighter.

Randy looks really good, but the radar comes so late that I am questionable about sinking supplies into getting the fighter early.

So, IJA night fighters are more a disruptive force. IJN kills.

Of the 2nd generation night fighters Myrt is really good, much better than it looks on paper. So is Frances...which I think is the IJN nf to focus on.