Fall Weiss II - AAR KZ vs Crispy

[crispy131313]

There are a few false comments above that I want to correct:

1. Canary's trip is a popup only from the vanilla campaign and has no effect on game play.
2. Taking London does not remove the Vichy Alliance, it's a variable 5% chance per turn after Spanish entry, the clock runs out after USA joins.
3. The Portuguese Alliance creates an immediate 30-40% Spanish swing towards the Axis, this validates at minimum "All of France" (60% achieved easier) or as this game unfolded Spain joining the war. There is definitely a cost.
4. Ireland was not free for the UK, it was planned via DE (cost MPP) prior to Sealion and it is usually wasted MPP as Sealion is not that common.
5. The UK did not freebie there way to victory, I counted 8 units received for the UK/Minors throughout the game that were not in vanilla, 5 of which were Infantry Divisions (soft targets) and 5 of the 8 units were received at half strength or less. The UK simply stopped spending on anything else, if you kill 3 Corps, I build 3 Corps. That was my only viable counter.

The above notes aside, I can accept your criticism in your final comments. I have actually made some changes based on the outcome of this game.

Poland
I have beefed up Poland slightly as they are currently inflicting nearly no losses. To combat this I've added a new HQ (Czuma) to Polish production which can deploy at half strength near Warsaw on Turn 2. Polish Calvary Divisions have universally been increased from 3 to 6 strength, and the Poznan and Pomorze Infantry Armies have been increased to strength 8. I have also added a half strength Infantry Division at Kutno (West of Warsaw) and moved the Polish Tank Division 1 hex south into Radom.

UK
The RAF Fighter unit stationed in Ireland (if chosen) now will deploy at strength 3 instead of 10. British units which arrive in Portugal (if alliance chosen) will now deploy between strength 3 to 5. It was never my intent for these units to be combat ready.

Portugal
Added Salazar 4 rating HQ (Portugal) to Build Limits as I forgot to name the HQ.

Aircraf
Added the "t" [:'(]

Germany
I've increased the plunder of Paris and Moscow to 75 MPP (from 25 MPP) and have added London (75 MPP) and Manchester (25 MPP) to the list of cities that Germany can plunder (with Swiss co-operation). These are slight bumps, but I am sure are welcome to any resource hungry German player.

I've added a new decision event in June 1940 which directly supports Sealion (or other amphibious invasion such as All of France). Germany can hastily deploy at half strength 1 Special Forces, 1 Paratrooper, 2 Motor Boat Torpedo units or alternatively can continue to focus on planning for war on the Eastern Front, in which case a HQ and Tank Corps will deploy in December 1940. I've decided that these additional units may actually help balance game play.

I've also created a new decision representing the The German-Soviet Border And Commercial Agreement (Dec 1940). Essentially Germany can opt to trade military equipment to the Soviets to decrease their war readiness, the alternative is to not deliver the equipment already promised to USSR (earlier pacts) which will increase Soviet war readiness. This decision will help facilitate German plans of early or late Barbarossa.

Finally, if the UK invades neutral Norway prior to Germany's planned decision event for invasion, Germany will receive the Bulcher Heavy Cruiser and XXI Infantry Corps still, as if they had said "No" to the invasion.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

There are a few false comments above that I want to correct:

1. Canary's trip is a popup only from the vanilla campaign and has no effect on game play.
2. Taking London does not remove the Vichy Alliance, it's a variable 5% chance per turn after Spanish entry, the clock runs out after USA joins.
3. The Portuguese Alliance creates an immediate 30-40% Spanish swing towards the Axis, this validates at minimum "All of France" (60% achieved easier) or as this game unfolded Spain joining the war. There is definitely a cost.
4. Ireland was not free for the UK, it was planned via DE (cost MPP) prior to Sealion and it is usually wasted MPP as Sealion is not that common.
5. The UK did not freebie there way to victory, I counted 8 units received for the UK/Minors throughout the game that were not in vanilla, 5 of which were Infantry Divisions (soft targets) and 5 of the 8 units were received at half strength or less. The UK simply stopped spending on anything else, if you kill 3 Corps, I build 3 Corps. That was my only viable counter.

The above notes aside, I can accept your criticism in your final comments. I have actually made some changes based on the outcome of this game.

Poland
I have beefed up Poland slightly as they are currently inflicting nearly no losses. To combat this I've added a new HQ (Czuma) to Polish production which can deploy at half strength near Warsaw on Turn 2. Polish Calvary Divisions have universally been increased from 3 to 6 strength, and the Poznan and Pomorze Infantry Armies have been increased to strength 8. I have also added a half strength Infantry Division at Kutno (West of Warsaw) and moved the Polish Tank Division 1 hex south into Radom.

UK
The RAF Fighter unit stationed in Ireland (if chosen) now will deploy at strength 3 instead of 10. British units which arrive in Portugal (if alliance chosen) will now deploy between strength 3 to 5. It was never my intent for these units to be combat ready.

Portugal
Added Salazar 4 rating HQ (Portugal) to Build Limits as I forgot to name the HQ.

Aircraf
Added the "t" [:'(]

Germany
I've increased the plunder of Paris and Moscow to 75 MPP (from 25 MPP) and have added London (75 MPP) and Manchester (25 MPP) to the list of cities that Germany can plunder (with Swiss co-operation). These are slight bumps, but I am sure are welcome to any resource hungry German player.

I've added a new decision event in June 1940 which directly supports Sealion (or other amphibious invasion such as All of France). Germany can hastily deploy at half strength 1 Special Forces, 1 Paratrooper, 2 Motor Boat Torpedo units or alternatively can continue to focus on planning for war on the Eastern Front, in which case a HQ and Tank Corps will deploy in December 1940. I've decided that these additional units may actually help balance game play.

I've also created a new decision representing the The German-Soviet Border And Commercial Agreement (Dec 1940). Essentially Germany can opt to trade military equipment to the Soviets to decrease their war readiness, the alternative is to not deliver the equipment already promised to USSR (earlier pacts) which will increase Soviet war readiness. This decision will help facilitate German plans of early or late Barbarossa.

Finally, if the UK invades neutral Norway prior to Germany's planned decision event for invasion, Germany will receive the Bulcher Heavy Cruiser and XXI Infantry Corps still, as if they had said "No" to the invasion.

I was about to DM you about missing out of on Norwegian invasion ships. [:D]

For Canary I couldn't find the equivalent in the default campaign. In our game it did occur at the same time the blockade event so I thought these were two distinct thing affecting Spain readiness. My mistake.

You should make Spain army have more troops at the Portuguese border since war declaration will be in almost all cases be from the allies and operating from Portugal.

The line of text below refers to London being in allied hands.

#NAME= DE 874 - Vichy French Join The Axis (AI - 100% Yes)
#POPUP= Führerhauptquartier %N%NMein Führer, Foreign Minisiter Von Ribbentrop has reported that the Vichy French Government could be pressured to Join The Axis Alliance, and there is a possibility that the Vichy states in North Africa could follow suit. The Vichy French are not well equipped however, so the Vichy French will require supplies from Germany if they are to declare for the Axis. %N%It should be noted that Mussolini is not aware of the secret negotations and will be undoutedly furious if Italy will be asked to fight along side of the French. If Vichy France should join the Axis in this scenario then Italian Morale will suffer. %N%Mein Führer, should we send supplies to the Vichy French and have them declare war for the Axis? It will cost 175 MPP for 3 Turns.
#IMAGE=
#SOUND= teletype_1.ogg, teletype_2.ogg
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
;Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
;Set link value to Dummy
#LINK= 602[1]
#COUNTRY_ID= 45
#TRIGGER= 5
#DISPLAY_ORDER= 0
; Set decision value
#DECISION= 874
#MPP_UPDOWN= -150
#MPP_TURNS= 3
#MPP_TEXT= Military Exports To Vichy France
#NOTES= %N%NIf you select (Yes) to this decision Vichy France will join the Axis and will deploy a Mechanized Division and a Tank Division at Vichy as a result of the military imports from Germany. Mussolini will be shaken by the move and Italian National Morale will decrease by 1,500 points. %N%NThere will also be 50% chance that additional Vichy French states will follow Vichy France in declaring for the Axis.
#NOTES_POSITION= 193,109
; Set AI acceptance % (AI will not accept 100% of the time)
#AI_RESPONSE= 100
#AI_RESPONSE_POPUP=
#DATE= 1941/01/01
#TEXT_RGB= 0,0,0
#SHADOW_RGB= 0,0,0
; London is in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 173,74 [1]
;Set National Morale Trigger (dummy value)
#NATIONAL_MORALE_TRIGGER= 0 [0]
; Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - UK politically aligned with Allies and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 59 [1] [100] [0]
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 118 [1] [0] [0]
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 4 [1] [0] [0]
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 40 [2] [100] [1]
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 99 [1] [100] [0]
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 115 [2] [0] [0]
; Dummy condition position (always satisfied)
#CONDITION_POSITION= 0,0 [0,0] [0,0] [0] [0]
}

I applaud your efforts to make other Axis strategies viable. But looking at our game unit lost count vs the current AAR of Taxman & Irishguard (Taxman being essentially wiped out but with something like half the casualty I inflicted) I'm not entirely sold its a thing that can be fixed via decisions.

[crispy131313]

173,74(1) is Berlin is in Axis hands, it is incorrectly titled London but still checks Berlin only, sorry about the confusion. Also Taxman’s campaign does not have divisions and skews the numbers at least somewhat.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

173,74(1) is Berlin is in Axis hands, it is incorrectly titled London but still checks Berlin only, sorry about the confusion. Also Taxman’s campaign does not have divisions and skews the numbers at least somewhat.

While the unit count can be inflated somewhat by the presence of division however the casualties themselves were mostly corps and up.

I suggest that the Portugal alliance event to summon Salazar rather than a British HQ.

[crispy131313]

Thanks for the feedback. I have updated the Anglo-Portuguese Decision to deploy Salazar rather than a British HQ, which is a good change and might even encourage deployment of the Portuguese Corps. Also, if the alliance is evoked then the Spanish Infantry Corps in Valencia will me moved Westward and split into two full strength Infantry Divisions on the most direct routes to Madrid, representing new border formations.

[Trump2016]

Have you considered making changes to "AVL" to either eliminating or severe limitations on the ability?

I was really enjoying your AAR up until the point were an entire German army group is trying to invade North America?

Even the US at the heights of its power in late war Pacific campaign could not pull that off (even modern day too)

unless you are adding a level 10 tech for amph....lol

[crispy131313]

The problem is that LR AVL should be able to reach Narvik from Germany, so I don't really think it can be capped. Despite how it is presented in the game, I don't think of the LR AVL as a raft crossing the ocean, it would have to be a transport fleet with amphibious capabilities. Still not very realistic I know, but it necessary so that actual historic events like Torch can be re-created. Ultimately invasion America is a doomed to fail exercise at least in FWII so hopefully LR AVL is not as big a problem as it could be, not only were the German's going to be instantly overwhelmed by the automatic and free reinforcements but it is another expensive distraction to the war on the Eastern Front, which I've stated before matters in my mod.

So in the end I don't think I can eliminate AVL but I hope KZ's misfortune serves as a deterrent in FWII.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

The problem is that LR AVL should be able to reach Narvik from Germany, so I don't really think it can be capped. Despite how it is presented in the game, I don't think of the LR AVL as a raft crossing the ocean, it would have to be a transport fleet with amphibious capabilities. Still not very realistic I know, but it necessary so that actual historic events like Torch can be re-created. Ultimately invasion America is a doomed to fail exercise at least in FWII so hopefully LR AVL is not as big a problem as it could be, not only were the German's going to be instantly overwhelmed by the automatic and free reinforcements but it is another expensive distraction to the war on the Eastern Front, which I've stated before matters in my mod.

So in the end I don't think I can eliminate AVL but I hope KZ's misfortune serves as a deterrent in FWII.

Just a little Spy investment makes it something a bit something of a long shot because they have to be at sea for a couple of turns and just one AVL or transport getting spy spot and the jig is essentially up. I didn't check the free gear in FW II, but in the base game it's something like 1 hq, 1 tank and 2 corps all of which are probably going to be triggered while the USA is underteched. That's not enough by itself to stop 2 german tank a HQ and tons of teleporting planes (and any supporting forces sent by transport).

Almost worked. I was one turn away from the coast and the USA hadn't spent any mpp in unit (a sign that its land units were still at str 5 and tech 0). It's possible to capture Washington on turn one of the invasion under these conditions. It might not trigger the surrender immediately (but could) but the clock starts to tick.

[crispy131313]

The USA has an alternate capital, I've no experience with attacking the USA i'm not sure if the capital would move there or not. Either way it's pretty silly, highlighted by the fact that in this match you wanted to either you pull it off or forfeit the game once foiled.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

The USA has an alternate capital, I've no experience with attacking the USA i'm not sure if the capital would move there or not. Either way it's pretty silly, highlighted by the fact that in this match you wanted to either you pull it off or forfeit the game once foiled.

I could live with my invasion being beaten back but I needed one of the western power to be essentially written out to keep it competitive. My heart sank when I scrolled over Edinburgh and saw a million units after having killed the entire UK army three times over.

I guess it's nice that you are willing to shake things over. But from my perspective its moot unless we start seeing people using sealion, all of France and win. Else it's just putting make-ups on dead-ends.

[crispy131313]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

The USA has an alternate capital, I've no experience with attacking the USA i'm not sure if the capital would move there or not. Either way it's pretty silly, highlighted by the fact that in this match you wanted to either you pull it off or forfeit the game once foiled.

I could live with my invasion being beaten back but I needed one of the western power to be essentially written out to keep it competitive. My heart sank when I scrolled over Edinburgh and saw a million units after having killed the entire UK army three times over.

I guess it's nice that you are willing to shake things over. But from my perspective its moot unless we start seeing people using sealion, all of France and win. Else it's just putting make-ups on dead-ends.

I decided to try a similar strategy to KZ in an ongoing game and we are now in September 1941 where this game ended.

In my current match Germany conquered all of France and the British government has fled to Toronto, as I tried Sealion for the first time. Spanish diplomacy hasn't really worked too well, so it's unlikely Franco will ever join the Axis.

In the East I did a typical Barbarossa in the final turn of May, the Axis have thus far marched within 3 hexes of both Leningrad in the North and Rostov in the South. Kharkov has been captured and Army Group Center is well beyond Smolensk en route to Moscow.

I am a bit behind in North Africa in comparison to KZ, but land forces are attacking Alexandria as we speak.

The only reason I am posting this is I wanted to see if Germany was truly handcuffed to fail when playing outside of the box in FWII as KZ advocated and I am confident that is not the case.

Cheers!

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

The USA has an alternate capital, I've no experience with attacking the USA i'm not sure if the capital would move there or not. Either way it's pretty silly, highlighted by the fact that in this match you wanted to either you pull it off or forfeit the game once foiled.

I could live with my invasion being beaten back but I needed one of the western power to be essentially written out to keep it competitive. My heart sank when I scrolled over Edinburgh and saw a million units after having killed the entire UK army three times over.

I guess it's nice that you are willing to shake things over. But from my perspective its moot unless we start seeing people using sealion, all of France and win. Else it's just putting make-ups on dead-ends.

I decided to try a similar strategy to KZ in an ongoing game and we are now in September 1941 where this game ended.

In my current match Germany conquered all of France and the British government has fled to Toronto, as I tried Sealion for the first time. Spanish diplomacy hasn't really worked too well, so it's unlikely Franco will ever join the Axis.

In the East I did a typical Barbarossa in the final turn of May, the Axis have thus far marched within 3 hexes of both Leningrad in the North and Rostov in the South. Kharkov has been captured and Army Group Center is well beyond Smolensk en route to Moscow.

I am a bit behind in North Africa in comparison to KZ, but land forces are attacking Alexandria as we speak.

The only reason I am posting this is I wanted to see if Germany was truly handcuffed to fail when playing outside of the box in FWII as KZ advocated and I am confident that is not the case.

Cheers!

It's good to hear that the tweaks you've made had the intended effect. Let's see if players other than the mod creator can replicate the feat. [:'(]

[Sugar]

I can't get, why a strategy to go all in immediately (All of France and/or Sealion and/or invading US) should determine the quality of a mod, especially against experienced players. Since the benefits are huge, the risks should also be. In contrary, I doubt such possibilities to enable a well balanced game.

[crispy131313]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

I can't get, why a strategy to go all in immediately (All of France and/or Sealion and/or invading US) should determine the quality of a mod, especially against experienced players. Since the benefits are huge, the risks should also be. In contrary, I doubt such possibilities to enable a well balanced game.

I don't support invading the US, I think it's silly. I am OK with opening the sandbox to different strategies, though I'll be honest I don't expect the results I just reported to be very typical, absolutely nothing has gone wrong for me in this match. In the end my mod is still geared towards Germany fighting to the bitter end. Even though there is an option to lean towards Sealion, choosing to build for Barbarossa is the higher reward.

[KorutZelva]

Different strokes for different folks. It's up to him to what extant he wants to use my feedback. He's made the most popular player made mod, clearly his take on things has a following. I don't see why he shouldn't continue to trust his instincts. He did tweak a fair number of things so I'm happy I've helped. [:)]

I wouldn't get too hung up on the 'invasion america' aspect of that game. In the grand scheme of things, it was attempted with 3 meaningful land units, mostly for the shits and giggles factor. [:'(]

I do take him cripsy success with Sealion with a grain of salt. In the base game, we have seen player of similar skill level pull it off (but not always see mika vs room!). I don't know what was the level of opposition he had in that match (in level of play and knowledge of the mod). But given that's he's the mod creator, that's a big edge to have vs an opponent. [;)]

[Dorky8]

who's winning

[crispy131313]

The Allies won, the Axis surrendered in September 1941. We did not play any more turns since our last report.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

The Allies won, the Axis surrendered in September 1941. We did not play any more turns since our last report.

It's long been established that Dorky8 doesn't actually read the AAR he's inquiring about. [:D]