Going to see Midway opening night ?

[pmelheck1]

I enjoyed it even with it's savaging by reviewers. As others stated if you ignore the video game quality of graphics which were not the worst i've seen by far they. And as others have stated they did get a lot of the small details right. The Doolittle raid did make me think of the raider toast at the Air Force academy. For giggles if reviews reported the battle


Midway Island Demolished. Yorktown, destroyer sunk.
Many US planes lost
June 7, 1942
The United States Navy suffered another blow in its attempt to stem the Japanese juggernaut ravaging the Pacific Ocean. Midway Island, perhaps the most vital U.S. outpost, was pummeled by Japanese Naval aviators. The defending U.S. forces, consisting primarily of antique Buffalo fighters, were competely wiped out while the Japanese attackers suffered few, if any, losses.
In a nearby naval confrontation, the Japanese successfully attacked the Yorktown which was later sunk by a Japanese submarine. A destroyer lashed to the Yorktown was also sunk.

American forces claim to have sunk four Japanese carriers and the cruiser Mogami but those claims were vehemently denied by the Emporer's spokeman.

The American carriers lost an entire squadron of torpedo planes when they failed to link up with fighter escorts. The dive bombers had fighter escort even though they weren't engaged by enemy fighters. The War Dept. refused to answer when asked why the fighters were assigned to the wrong attack groups. The Hornet lost a large number of planes when they couldn't locate the enemy task force. Despite this cavalcade of errors, Admirals Fletcher and Spruance have not been removed.

Code Broken
The failure at Midway is even more disheartening because the U.S. Navy knew the Japanese were coming. Secret documents provided to the NY Times showed that "Magic" intercepts showed the Japanese planned to attack Midway, which they called "AF".

Obsolete Equipment
Some critics blamed the failure at Midway on the use of obsolete aircraft. The inappropriately named Devastator torpedo planes proved no match for the Japanese fighters. Even the Avengers, its schedule replacements, were riddled with bullets and rendered unflyable. Secretary of War Stimson dodged the question saying simply: "You go to war with the Navy you have, not the Navy you want or would like to have". Critics immediately called for his resignation.

[Erik Rutins]

I saw Midway today and have to say I enjoyed it and thought it was worth seeing for any WWII Pacific buff. Definitely a good effort. No Hollywood movie will be perfect but the at times overdone visuals aside, this was much more historically accurate than I expected and it covers much more ground than just the Battle of Midway. I would recommend seeing it in the theater.

[AcePylut]

One more detail that they got right..... that you wouldn't expect....

Everyone in the movie smokes.

[Trugrit]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I saw Midway today and have to say I enjoyed it and thought it was worth seeing for any WWII Pacific buff. Definitely a good effort. No Hollywood movie will be perfect but the at times overdone visuals aside, this was much more historically accurate than I expected and it covers much more ground than just the Battle of Midway. I would recommend seeing it in the theater.

Alright, you have convinced me. Darn it!

I'm going to go see it today at 12:30.

[John 3rd]

Posted this on the other thread but here is my boys and I's thoughts:

Saw the film with my sons last night (Sunday). I WANT to give the show better marks then I will. The film was much more accurate then TMTSNBN and the actual battle reflects the recent scholarship of Shattered Sword. The dense packed Japanese TF was ludicrous, Doolittle Raid was horse-hooey, the intense Japanese AA fire shooting down dozens of planes--STUPID, and not a single scene with an American Fighter in it.

Reactions from my almost 16-year old son:
1. My eldest re-acted to the spotting of the Kido Butai just before the dive-bombing as--WAIT I see Yamato and Musashi in there!--he was right.
2. There was no emotion or connection to the characters. Only time it got exciting--according to him--was when the DB dove on Hiryu and the music really kicked in.
3. Perhaps in blastphemy, John stated that the action scenes were more connecting to him in TMTSNBN then this. He felt there was no drama when there should have been LOTS!
4. He really liked that the Marshalls Raid was included.

My GOOD thoughts:
1. The effects were GREAT! The ships came alive. Seeing the Enterprise, Japanese CVs, and Yamato was damned near worth the ticket by themselves.
2. The accuracy of seeing only Fighters on the Japanese decks (no Fuchida crap here) and watching how Best and his wingmen shifted from Kaga to Akagi was well done and corrected the historical record.
3. Agree that the performances of Harrelson and Quaid for Nimitz and Halsey were quite good. Liked Layton's performance as well.

It is eye candy and better then you know what but the film is a mixed bag. Go see the special effects. Try to avoid stroking out on other issues!

Give the film a solid C.

[Alpha77]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Thanks to your warning, I've never seen Indianapolis: Men of Courage. You saved me from having to un-see it. [&o]

Same here. Did't even bother to watch it on cable. Unfortunately I didn't do the same with TMTSNBN, I watched it on cable. Nearly canceled my subscription after that.

Also did not bother - however it reminds me that Nic Cage ("back in the days") were in some good movies and delivered fine performances. Eg. 8mm and Lords Of War come to mind, check this scene here for example. Very well played imho by both:

Lord Of War - Interrogation Scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTK8torOylM

Also I found the movie "Margin Call" (about stock/housing market crash so a bit OT but this one is good), lots of good actors. Check this scene (mostly movies are better without needless action, cgi or heroism):

Margin Call (2011) - Senior Partners Emergency Meeting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhy7JUinlu0

[fcooke]

Ah crud, enough forum mates have given it at least a C and the better half is currently in London. But bombing Yamato and Musashi? I think Yamato was a few hundred miles out of range...and Musahi might have been still on the slip.....

But kudos on ship ID.

edited to correct half to have.

[Trugrit]

I just got back from the theater.

I would have to give it a low "B" just because it stands above the poor quality
of recent films and it did not have a ton of mushy scenes.

Good enough. I recommend it.

[Barb]

Ah,crap guys.. they are releasing it on the 14th here... Hope to see it next week with an open mind.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Posted this on the other thread but here is my boys and I's thoughts:

Saw the film with my sons last night (Sunday). I WANT to give the show better marks then I will. The film was much more accurate then TMTSNBN and the actual battle reflects the recent scholarship of Shattered Sword. The dense packed Japanese TF was ludicrous, Doolittle Raid was horse-hooey, the intense Japanese AA fire shooting down dozens of planes--STUPID, and not a single scene with an American Fighter in it.

Reactions from my almost 16-year old son:
1. My eldest re-acted to the spotting of the Kido Butai just before the dive-bombing as--WAIT I see Yamato and Musashi in there!--he was right.
2. There was no emotion or connection to the characters. Only time it got exciting--according to him--was when the DB dove on Hiryu and the music really kicked in.
3. Perhaps in blastphemy, John stated that the action scenes were more connecting to him in TMTSNBN then this. He felt there was no drama when there should have been LOTS!
4. He really liked that the Marshalls Raid was included.

My GOOD thoughts:
1. The effects were GREAT! The ships came alive. Seeing the Enterprise, Japanese CVs, and Yamato was damned near worth the ticket by themselves.
2. The accuracy of seeing only Fighters on the Japanese decks (no Fuchida crap here) and watching how Best and his wingmen shifted from Kaga to Akagi was well done and corrected the historical record.
3. Agree that the performances of Harrelson and Quaid for Nimitz and Halsey were quite good. Liked Layton's performance as well.

It is eye candy and better then you know what but the film is a mixed bag. Go see the special effects. Try to avoid stroking out on other issues!

Give the film a solid C.

After the trailers I just don't know if I can do it. The massed diving attacks, the tightly packed ships, the street level strafing runs, the 100ft high drop altitudes, the stupid aerobatics of the SBDs (like the stall and dive moment). Arrrgggg. Why???!!![:@]

How hard is it (and how much more simple really from a CGI/cost perspective) to make it more accurate? More sparse? More dramatically tense? I just don't get why a film has to look and be paced like a video game for the studio to think it's going to make money. Film-making has become so much about over dramatisation, and it's one reason I'm so much more into TV series at the moment.

I don't think I can do it. I want to, but I know I'll throw something, curse loudly, gyrate and flail, and generally annoy anyone near me. (Not that I mind for them really, but it won't be comfortable for me either).

My downfall is that in addition to caring a bit about the portrayal of this period I also teach film-making. Double difficulty.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Posted this on the other thread but here is my boys and I's thoughts:

Saw the film with my sons last night (Sunday). I WANT to give the show better marks then I will. The film was much more accurate then TMTSNBN and the actual battle reflects the recent scholarship of Shattered Sword. The dense packed Japanese TF was ludicrous, Doolittle Raid was horse-hooey, the intense Japanese AA fire shooting down dozens of planes--STUPID, and not a single scene with an American Fighter in it.

Reactions from my almost 16-year old son:
1. My eldest re-acted to the spotting of the Kido Butai just before the dive-bombing as--WAIT I see Yamato and Musashi in there!--he was right.
2. There was no emotion or connection to the characters. Only time it got exciting--according to him--was when the DB dove on Hiryu and the music really kicked in.
3. Perhaps in blastphemy, John stated that the action scenes were more connecting to him in TMTSNBN then this. He felt there was no drama when there should have been LOTS!
4. He really liked that the Marshalls Raid was included.

My GOOD thoughts:
1. The effects were GREAT! The ships came alive. Seeing the Enterprise, Japanese CVs, and Yamato was damned near worth the ticket by themselves.
2. The accuracy of seeing only Fighters on the Japanese decks (no Fuchida crap here) and watching how Best and his wingmen shifted from Kaga to Akagi was well done and corrected the historical record.
3. Agree that the performances of Harrelson and Quaid for Nimitz and Halsey were quite good. Liked Layton's performance as well.

It is eye candy and better then you know what but the film is a mixed bag. Go see the special effects. Try to avoid stroking out on other issues!

Give the film a solid C.

After the trailers I just don't know if I can do it. The massed diving attacks, the tightly packed ships, the street level strafing runs, the 100ft high drop altitudes, the stupid aerobatics of the SBDs (like the stall and dive moment). Arrrgggg. Why???!!![:@]

How hard is it (and how much more simple really from a CGI/cost perspective) to make it more accurate? More sparse? More dramatically tense? I just don't get why a film has to look and be paced like a video game for the studio to think it's going to make money. Film-making has become so much about over dramatisation, and it's one reason I'm so much more into TV series at the moment.

I don't think I can do it. I want to, but I know I'll throw something, curse loudly, gyrate and flail, and generally annoy anyone near me. (Not that I mind for them really, but it won't be comfortable for me either).

My downfall is that in addition to caring a bit about the portrayal of this period I also teach film-making. Double difficulty.

Oh good! Can we expect a remake of the film - Midway: Obvert's Cut ?

[fcooke]

Now - that would be cool.....

One of the things I was responsible before I retired was the group that put together marketing materials, presentations, videos, etc. The team was REALLY good. Every time I saw a powerpoint presentation with just a list of bullet points - either from internal clients or external sales folk, it made me cringe. So I feel Obvert's pain.....

[Canoerebel]

+1

ORIGINAL: obvert

After the trailers I just don't know if I can do it. The massed diving attacks, the tightly packed ships, the street level strafing runs, the 100ft high drop altitudes, the stupid aerobatics of the SBDs (like the stall and dive moment). Arrrgggg. Why???!!![:@]

How hard is it (and how much more simple really from a CGI/cost perspective) to make it more accurate? More sparse? More dramatically tense? I just don't get why a film has to look and be paced like a video game for the studio to think it's going to make money. Film-making has become so much about over dramatisation, and it's one reason I'm so much more into TV series at the moment.

I don't think I can do it. I want to, but I know I'll throw something, curse loudly, gyrate and flail, and generally annoy anyone near me. (Not that I mind for them really, but it won't be comfortable for me either).

My downfall is that in addition to caring a bit about the portrayal of this period I also teach film-making. Double difficulty.

[AcePylut]

ORIGINAL: obvert

After the trailers I just don't know if I can do it. The massed diving attacks, the tightly packed ships, the street level strafing runs, the 100ft high drop altitudes, the stupid aerobatics of the SBDs (like the stall and dive moment). Arrrgggg. Why???!!![:@]

How hard is it (and how much more simple really from a CGI/cost perspective) to make it more accurate? More sparse? More dramatically tense? I just don't get why a film has to look and be paced like a video game for the studio to think it's going to make money. Film-making has become so much about over dramatisation, and it's one reason I'm so much more into TV series at the moment.

I don't think I can do it. I want to, but I know I'll throw something, curse loudly, gyrate and flail, and generally annoy anyone near me. (Not that I mind for them really, but it won't be comfortable for me either).

My downfall is that in addition to caring a bit about the portrayal of this period I also teach film-making. Double difficulty.

That part, I was actually happy to see, as we did use SBDs to augment CAP in the early days of the war. I ead about a few SBD vs zero encounters where the SBD pilots pulled stunts like this... so that didn't bother me... not as much as seeing a B25 blast through a wall of water on take-off, or that SBD's wingtip touching the sea.

IMHO the battle scenes and the dialogue were the bad parts... but from all the reviews I'm reading from my "non-WW2 grog" friends on Facebook, they all loved the movie.


It's not hard to make the flight dramatic and accurate. That's always been a big issue for me in "plane movies". I'd tell the CGI folks to watch about 200 hours worth of WW2 gun film and THEN make their battle like that. Or maybe go play Warthunder custom matches and record what goes on there, then put that on film. It's just as dramatic.

I mean, you can really use a "realistic" scene to drive up fear and fright.... imagine the camera right above the rear gunner in a TBD, and you see the zero coming at you, and the moviegoer has been told (or shown previously) that TBD's are sitting ducks and are going to die... then make it take like 30 seconds for the zero to 'slowly' get in gun range, and then the zero lights you up and the TBD dies, along with the character. Make sure to cue increasingly fateful dreadful music during this scene. Have that rear gunner be one of the minor characters that was being followed in the movie for some more dramatic "war is hell, people die" effect.

No need to have every plane explode in a giant ball of flame. Watch more gun film. Put THAT on screen, show the plane spiraling out of control and to the sea and exploding... kinda of like that C-47 that bit the dirt in the 2nd episode of Band of Brothers, during the drop on Normandy.

But I was still happy with the film. It's all a matter of expectations, and I expected TMTSNBN and this was immensely better. So... there's that.

[tacticon]

I think that the Midway way movie was well worth the price. I took my 12 old to it and he loved it. Thanks to public school he knew more about the plastic content of the Pacific Ocean then the wars fought over it. This movie was made for people like him, all action, less talking and lots special effects. If you were going to make a movie to please the formites, you might as well redo Victory at see but with CGI.

It’s a fact of life that the further away you get from an historical event, the less effort is made to learn it. Forget about Salamis, Lepento or Trafalgar. My kid his in a 7th grade history class doing a civil war unit and Hampton Roads is not even mentioned in the text. There will come a time when world war II will be down to a long paragraph. I wonder if Midway will even make the cut. If the Midway Movie is the best we are going to get to keep history alive, then go see it and take as many kids with you as you can.

[CaptBeefheart]

Looks like it hasn't hit the big screen here yet. You'd think a movie where the Japanese lost would be popular... unless they see it as a reminder that someone else liberated their country. Who knows?

If it does come to Korea, the beauty of the multiplex here is you don't have to sneak beer in--they sell it. That might make it a lot more enjoyable than what I saw in the trailer.

Cheers,
CB

[fcooke]

Enjoying a drink while enjoying a movie, play, music is a great thing. Readily doable when I lived in London. In the US....no. And the US is so over-regulated (at least in NY) that I once went to a store and bought some gin. I asked where I could find the tonic. They told me go to another store. They were only allowed to sell spirits/wine. No tonic, no limes. I cannot even fathom the logic in that regulation.

Rant off.

[witpqs]

I would pay to see Obvert's cut of any movie he's commented on!

[L0ckAndL0ad]

Just came back from the movie theater. Ugh...

I went with a friend, who doesn't know that much about the Pacific War, but has good general knowledge of the era, events and the equipment. He enjoyed it. I kinda did too... before the Battle of Midway started. B-26s dropping bombs was the last straw, and from there, I was just waiting till this whole mess was over.

I currently do a lot of research on carrier warfare. I KNOW how hard it is to get all the facts right, when you work with many different sources. But damn, was it really so hard to get the basics straight? I get the impression they packed all the budget into select few 3d models, special effects (TRACERS AND EXPLOSIONS EVERYWHERE), and actor paychecks.

Was it me or did they really portray sinking Lexington with Yorktown-class carrier in the Coral Sea?

And don't get me started on the script and actors. Dubbed audio (Russian) was cheesy as it always is, but I'm pretty sure the original was just as bad. None of the actors appealed to me. Some were outright irritating to watch (especially Best). No sense of agency from any of them whatsoever. Sad Alexander Ludwig did not get much screen time.

My verdict: F. Not recommended to watch.

ps: I saw "Tora! Tora! Tora!" (1970) for the first time just few days ago. Also "Mister Roberts" (1955). Re-watched "Midway" (1976). Will see "The Gallant Hours" soon as well. That's time well spent.

[John 3rd]

It was not you. That was a Yorktown-Class sinking at Coral Sea--not that Halsey and the Enterprise were actually there to see it!

Agree about the B-26 scene. WHERE were the B-17s? LJ (Little John) made the comment--WAIT...the B-26 carried Torps...RIGHT Dad? Kid knows his stuff...

Have never scene The Gallant Hours. Think I shall.