Is France too strong?

[Flaviusx]

4 and 2. And I also throw a couple more mech before Barbarossa to hit my benchmarks, so end up with 4 mech total. German heavy mech is very beefy and I'm not afraid to bulk up my numbers with it. After Barbarossa starts I generally don't build more of it and switch to armor only, but timing is key and I'd rather have a mech corps on hand in time for France and the Soviet Union than an armor unit two months later.

[ncc1701e]

4 and 2 - all right, I understand better. So I will build less subs for the planes...

Thanks

[AlvaroSousa]

Listen to Flavious, he breaks WarPlan all the time and I have to clean up the mess. But that's a good thing.

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa


You 100% would rather have heavy artillery than engineers especially when you are multihex attacking from 3 hexes across a river. That is a bonus of +30% vs +25% and it's more useful.

I thought rules say only 1 HA can contribute to any 1 attack so 3 x 10% still makes 10%

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Listen to Flavious, he breaks WarPlan all the time and I have to clean up the mess. But that's a good thing.

In a way, yes. However if you weaken France like I think you just did, you unbalance the game in favour of his acolytes who don't need it according to him.

The perennial and unsolvable problem. Tweak the balance for average players gives a more balanced game at that level, but unbalances it for the more skilled, and vice versa.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Listen to Flavious, he breaks WarPlan all the time and I have to clean up the mess. But that's a good thing.

In a way, yes. However if you weaken France like I think you just did, you unbalance the game in favour of his acolytes who don't need it according to him.

The perennial and unsolvable problem. Tweak the balance for average players gives a more balanced game at that level, but unbalances it for the more skilled, and vice versa.

Yes, but it's not as if France also won the Second World War. When I have learned to master the game instead of finding its bugs, I will certainly come back with a different opinion. The quest for bugs is not the same than the quest to win...

The Soviets were also strengthened for balance... I would say 1-1.

[Jeff_Ahl]

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Any specialty that is limited has a higher overall mathematical return.

So engineers only help on River lines. Thus +25% effectively as it halves river penalties
But looking at this post and Flavious mentioning -10% for Artillery for all attacking units I am tending to agree with him on Engineers. I will have to make an adjustment.

You 100% would rather have heavy artillery than engineers especially when you are multihex attacking from 3 hexes across a river. That is a bonus of +30% vs +25% and it's more useful. Maybe I will give it also a defensive bonus like attacks are even worse off as Engineers disable bridges. Have to think about it.

...and Engineers increased the overall effectivness in the denfense with mines, field fortification, blown up roads and other (and offensive if considering piooners/storm piooners).

[ncc1701e]

Thanks Flaviusx, MagicMissile, sillyflower, guggy and Alvaro for the good lessons learned during French campaign. I think I got it now with the retreat path.

This is my last current PBEM with 1.00.073 patch. Not any corps destroyed during counter attack. I was super careful.

Edit: Please note that I got lucky with the weather and had two cold turns in April 1940 to take Norway and Belgium.

[sveint]

Nicely done.

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: sveint

Nicely done.

+1
..............and all before the french army is neutered

[MVokt]

The paratrooper units being so decisive in getting France surrender simply should not happen. It' just wrong. Paratroopers weren't that strong in real war.

[Flaviusx]

I wouldn't say the French army was neutered, they lost maybe two corps equivalents. But...it really wasn't all that necessary, either. A good German player could knock out the French even reinforced with colonials quickly enough. This ends up helping novice Germans, I guess. I don't think it breaks the game so I won't cry about it. The Axis just lost their free Yugoslavia, after all, so...

Nicely done, and now you have mastered this part of the game. Some allied players may choose to send a strong BEF, but that won't change the result, merely delay it a month and half or so.

The weather matters less here than you'd think, btw, since most of your new construction only begins to arrive in April anyways and won't be fully in place before May. It does help the Germans knock off Belgium in one turn. (Which should happen in just about every game. Highly unlikely you won't get at least one early clear turn before May.)

It's hard to go deep into France with only the two panzers you start with.

[Flaviusx]

The paratrooper is helpful, not decisive. And from the allied standpoint I don't mind seeing it used and busy in France as opposed to the UK.

Anyways, paras are getting a nerf. Even with that nerf, they could still do this kind of drop, though, and it's fine.

[ncc1701e]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Nicely done, and now you have mastered this part of the game.

Thanks, what's next now? I am tempted by an early Barbarossa in 1940... [:D]

[malkarma]

Try it...we will figure the outcome...

[ncc1701e]

oh no - Enigma has been cracked [:D]

[Flaviusx]

I don't think a 1940 Barbarossa can work, lol, but would love to see somebody try it. You just don't have either the time or the forces to pull it off, and you don't even have the Axis minors activated yet to widen the front. By 1941 the Soviets would be pretty monstrous and your gains limited.

Speaking of which, I finally launched my own Barbarossa in late May in my mirror match with MM. 20 dead rifle corps on the first turn. He'll probably do at least that well against me whenever he launches his.

[battlevonwar]

Never got to chime in on this topic. France can be pretty strong. Though it sort of has to be for the defense of England/Spain and the Middle East. If I were the Axis and I get France with little losses in June I probably will think where can I do the most damage.

I see the best french defenders exacting around 250-350 casualties in Axis Land. 80-150 or more Air. That's strong!!! Couple opponents have done this to me over the game, tell me does that feel about right to you or excessive?

[sillyflower]

I think that such high G losses will be due more to mistakes by the Germans than by allied skill

[battlevonwar]

Perhaps sillyflower, I am not entirely sure that's the case though. Almeron did this to me but he entirely lost in the East and lost later. Good player I think better than myself... I think once a player has played French Defense enough times they can perfect it and they build a huge in depth French defense that isn't so breakable. With any bad weather turns you are looking at large losses. Sveint also exacted a high total too. I have seen some sneaky Allies

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

I think that such high G losses will be due moor to mistakes by the Germans than by allied skill