My first go at this game, very enjoyable!

[rustysi]

If aircraft attack the port in the hex, can the shore guns be damaged in that type of attack?

Yes.

Also, any advice on how to deal with shore guns when unloading TFs?

Having a separate shore bombardment TF will help, but having adequate support ships embedded within the TF's is needed. By support ships I mean CA's and BB's. Japanese CA's can be particularly useful. I'm talking about the 13/14k tons guys. I've had them shrug of hits of up to 9.2"CD guns.

They will do some bombardment prior to troops landing, and return fire when shore guns fire at your transports. This 'suppressing' fire should mean lots of misses for the shore weapons. Of course the more of these 'supporting' ships the better.

Keep in mind that all attacks may raise the fatigue level and lower morale of the shore guns, thus reducing their effectiveness.

Generally speaking I don't use early Japanese CL's for shore bombardment, unless I know there're no shore guns at the local.

[Ambassador]

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

Just finished another round as Japanese in Coral Sea. Much better naval results, but somehow I messed up the PM invasion. I did lose one ship on the way in to a U.S. sub. Not sure what was aboard, perhaps it was the margin. First attack went in at 1-5, then 1-3, 1-2, 1-1 but ran out of time.

I need to do more reading on shore bombardments; specifically what the range settings do.

I lost one transport to a sub on the way in, one on the way back and four to those nasty Oz coastal gunners.

I had Shokaku take one bomb hit, but she repaired it down to only 3 or 4 major damage points. I was able to get one hit in first, a small raid that did some damaged to Yorktown. I guess I am figuring out the range hold off thing. The next day I got a few more licks in and clobbered Lexington, more on Yorktown. I got greedy and moved a bit closer and got some damage on Shokaku. My fliers worked over some surface units.

Total Allied losses, 12 ships:

CV Lexington
CV Yorktown
CA Australia
CA Minneapolis
CA Portland
CA Chester
CA New Orleans
DD Perkins
DD Worden
DD Aylwin
AO Tippecanoe

After one of the low odds attacks I gave my land units an extra day of rest. Perhaps it cost me the victory. I need to learn more about ground combat.

Also, any advice on how to deal with shore guns when unloading TFs? I am thinkng it may have to do with my shore bombardment settings. I left them at default but during the animations it shows my CLs firing from 15,00 or more away. Is that useless? I also still do not know if I set my bombers to port attack if that will help to suppress shore guns.

I also forgot to mention that Shoho got hit, with some mid level system and floation damage. I sent a cruiser and two DDs back with her. By game's end she was still floating and seemed not in danger of sinking.

Even if you failed to capture PM, I’d still count this as a big victory. Imagine Midway without Yorktown, and possibly with Zuikaku (and Shokaku, depending on the damage).

I haven’t played Coral Sea in a long time, so I don’t remember the specifics, but the memories I got are that the conquest of PM is really hard to achieve in the timeline. You will see in other scenarios, like Guadalcanal, that ground combat requires patience. Doing back-to-back attacks is not often the right thing to do, especially against entrenched enemies, unless you have overwhelming advantage and the enemy is on the brink of defeat.

The reason is that each attack accumulates disruption, fatigue, disabled devices, and you’re often better off holding for a day (or a couple of days) before the next attack - especially if you have isolated the base and can bomb it every day to keep the forts from being built again.

[BBfanboy]

The shore bombardment routine in the game engine is not well described in the manual. Here's the gist of some things Alfred let us know:

1. If the bombardment TF contains BBs, CAs or CLs (with gun range over 15K), AND IF the TF is set to "No escort bombardment", the bombardment will start at 30K yards and move in to 15K yards (ammo permitting). I remain unclear whether setting a stand-off distance of, say, 22K would prevent the TF from approaching closer, but I am fairly sure that if you set 10K stand-off the TF will still not approach closer than 15K.

2. IF you set the TF to a standoff range of 1 and "Escorts Bombard" you permit the DDs to fire. If you have BBs, CAs, CLs in the TF they may start firing at 30K and will move in as close as 6K yards, although occasionally the big ships will go in as close as 4K if shore gunfire is weak. The DDs will often go in as close as 2K and sometimes 1K if shore fire is weak. I think if you set a stand-off range of 10K instead of 1K, the entire TF will limit itself to 10K closest approach.

3. It is usually best not to mix gun calibers too much. I usually keep CAs, CLs and BBs in different TFs with their DD escorts. That's not an absolute rule if you are short on bombardment ships and DDs, a mixed bag is better than none. Keep the TF around 8-10 ships or you may find that some of them never get a chance to fire.

4. Embedding BBs or CAs with an Amphib TF seems to be more effective at knocking out fortress or CD unit guns than a separate bombardment TF. Bear in mind that non-CD units also have artillery and MGs that will fire on your troops once they hit the beach and bombardment by Air and Sea in the days before the landings will suppress them. It is best to keep up continuous bombardment day after day because any break will allow the enemy to recover from much of the low morale, fatigue and disruption.

5. The AI does not favour daytime naval bombardments. The model is for the bombardment TF to move within sprinting distance to the target and end the turn there, then next turn go flank speed to target during the night naval movement phase, bombard, and retreat at flank speed to avoid air attacks. You need to be really careful that nothing delays the bombardment TF during this cycle or it may not get out of range of enemy retaliation. Things that can delay the TF are the need to refuel DDs at sea so they can make the sprint, combat with enemy TFs, sub attacks, etc. Obviously, your big ships should all have similar top speeds since the TF will be limited by the slowest ship.

6. As with so many things in this game, detection level is key to good results. If you can recon your target for a few days before bombardment, day and night, you set up a good MDL (median DL). Then before the bombardment, set your float planes to recon the target, range 0. One will usually do spotting duties for the TF. If the DL is too low, the TF might not even carry out the bombardment and will sit at the beginning hex for the sprint.

7. Ensure the TF routing is set to "Absolute" threat tolerance and "Direct" route. Do NOT use waypoints with a bombardment TF - they seem to interfere with the sprint in-out routine.

[Randy Stead]

Shoho was the more seriously damaged of the carriers. Shokaku had very small number of damage points, 3 or 4 major ones that would require a proper repair job. In my opinion, with the damaged done to my carriers in this scenario, they'd have had at least Zuikaku in addition to the other four, and likely would've had Shokaku repaired in time. Would the USN have gone after Kido Butai at Midway knowing it would've had 5 or 6 carriers, with only their 2 [because I sunk Yorktown and Lexington at Coral Sea]?

Thanks for the advice on shore bombardment, BBfanboy. In this scenario you only have CLs, unless you detach some CAs from the carrier group. They only reason I had to make such hasty attacks was the ticking clock of the scenario. Another day or two and I would've had PM, but that's the way the scenario was designed. In looking back, I should have sent my carriers over to PM and hit it a time or two. I still had enough planes and ordnance to do it. Even with the damage to Shokaku.

[Randy Stead]

Sorry, I'm still left wondering about those shore guns in the Coral Sea scenario. Has anybody figured out a way to pull their teeth with what is available in the scenario? I lose at least four ships from the landing force to those shore guns every time I play this scenario. In this game I lost a transport, with its cargo of supplies and/or troops, plus the number of men who drown during the unloading process. I guess the Japanese are not as good at swimming when laden with gear as the USMC?

And I have still not had any luck getting the Zeros from Lae to do a strafe attack on Port Moresby. I set the mission to ground attack, target PM and set the altitude to 100' and still nothing happens. I am wondering what I am doing wrong. I've only been attempting this for the purpose of getting to see what it does in a scenario before I try it in a campaign.

[rustysi]

And I have still not had any luck getting the Zeros from Lae to do a strafe attack on Port Moresby.

Lae is a level one airfield. In short, no offensive missions may be carried out from a level one airfield.

[RangerJoe]

You can also have the bombardment TF set to "Remain On Station" and then change them back to bombardment again for the next turn. I do this sometimes because they do not always use almost all of their ammo when they otherwise would. They will try to keep a couple of loads for enemy ships. The reason for the "No Escorts Bombard" is to save their ammo for anti-aircraft fire. Evven DDs on a bombardment mission with no obvious damage to the enemy units or facilities is useful.

Keep at least one unit on the ground bombarding the enemy, if not all of them. This will keep the enemies fatigue and disruption up so they will not have a chance for a beer.

You can also use Fast Transports for your Japanese cruisers and destroyers and carry units and/or supplies. You could even use these to take bases like Buna if they are relatively undefended. Then they become Surface Combat Task Forces with a full load of ammo.

Try to keep your air strikes going in at the same altitude otherwise they may not coordinate. Think of Torpedo 8 at Midway attacking with such a great fighter escort!

If you set your dive bombers to attack at 15k [:-] feet, they will probably level bomb.

The enemy CAP, especially if they have radar, will usually be able to climb above your attacking forces then dive. This is because the escorts are staying with the bombers as well as the warning of the raid with the RADAR seeing the raid coming in. With enough warning, the enemy CAP can also be augmented by additional fighters that take off from the carriers.

Try using the Claudes at 5k or 6k feet, both as anti-torpedo plane CAP as well as anti-search plane CAP. In the grand campaign, I do this in the DEI against the Commonwealth biplane torpedo planes with good results.

I have seen 18 and 25 pounders shooting at the invasion force, the 40mm Bofors is especially good at that!

Try two or three DDs on a surface mission with aggression set to "LOW." Especially on those dark and/or stormy nights, this way they can get close and launch torpedoes, then leave. If the enemy has non-surface combat ships there, those could be hurting. Think if you did this and torpedoed an enemy carrier so it could not launch aircraft the next day when each side launches airstrikes against each other.[X(] Lead with DDs like this, then have your heavier ships come in next.

You could also break up your Betty unit into smaller sizes and have one section at night set to bomb PM as well as Naval Search.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

Sorry, I'm still left wondering about those shore guns in the Coral Sea scenario. Has anybody figured out a way to pull their teeth with what is available in the scenario? I lose at least four ships from the landing force to those shore guns every time I play this scenario. In this game I lost a transport, with its cargo of supplies and/or troops, plus the number of men who drown during the unloading process. I guess the Japanese are not as good at swimming when laden with gear as the USMC?

Think of it this way - it's a scenario where the clock is running. In the Grand Campaign, it's a much different clock. If you really want to take an objective, overwhelm the heck out of it. Multiple bombardment TFs, lots of BBs and CAs accompanying the invasion force, MANY troop transports (configured to unload the majority or all of your assault force during the first pulse), extensive air bombardment prep, whatever it takes.

But that's not what you have here. The Japanese ran their ops on a shoestring, and this is a small taste of what happens when you do that.

[rustysi]

If you set your dive bombers to attack at 15k feet, they will probably level bomb.

Dive bombers will dive bomb at altitude 10-15k.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

Sorry, I'm still left wondering about those shore guns in the Coral Sea scenario. Has anybody figured out a way to pull their teeth with what is available in the scenario? I lose at least four ships from the landing force to those shore guns every time I play this scenario. In this game I lost a transport, with its cargo of supplies and/or troops, plus the number of men who drown during the unloading process. I guess the Japanese are not as good at swimming when laden with gear as the USMC?

And I have still not had any luck getting the Zeros from Lae to do a strafe attack on Port Moresby. I set the mission to ground attack, target PM and set the altitude to 100' and still nothing happens. I am wondering what I am doing wrong. I've only been attempting this for the purpose of getting to see what it does in a scenario before I try it in a campaign.

With drop tanks, Zeros can sweep or LRCAP up to 14 hexes. Strafing is ineffective against troops with forts and you will lose a lot of aircraft to light AA. Your Zero pilots are probably not well trained in strafing anyway. IRL the Japanese landed their troops down the coast between Milne Bay and PM. Aircraft from PM took out most of their supply ships so they could never make much progress up the coast. You can drop troops at a coastal hex (at least you could when the game came out) but the losses are something like 50%. It seems your only real choice is to put those CAs in the Amphib TF to suppress the CD unit.

[Randy Stead]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

And I have still not had any luck getting the Zeros from Lae to do a strafe attack on Port Moresby.

Lae is a level one airfield. In short, no offensive missions may be carried out from a level one airfield.

Bingo!, Thank you, comrade. Comrade as in the pal sense, not the commie sense.

[Randy Stead]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You can also have the bombardment TF set to "Remain On Station" and then change them back to bombardment again for the next turn. I do this sometimes because they do not always use almost all of their ammo when they otherwise would. They will try to keep a couple of loads for enemy ships. The reason for the "No Escorts Bombard" is to save their ammo for anti-aircraft fire. Evven DDs on a bombardment mission with no obvious damage to the enemy units or facilities is useful.

Keep at least one unit on the ground bombarding the enemy, if not all of them. This will keep the enemies fatigue and disruption up so they will not have a chance for a beer.

You can also use Fast Transports for your Japanese cruisers and destroyers and carry units and/or supplies. You could even use these to take bases like Buna if they are relatively undefended. Then they become Surface Combat Task Forces with a full load of ammo.

Try to keep your air strikes going in at the same altitude otherwise they may not coordinate. Think of Torpedo 8 at Midway attacking with such a great fighter escort!

If you set your dive bombers to attack at 15k [:-] feet, they will probably level bomb.

The enemy CAP, especially if they have radar, will usually be able to climb above your attacking forces then dive. This is because the escorts are staying with the bombers as well as the warning of the raid with the RADAR seeing the raid coming in. With enough warning, the enemy CAP can also be augmented by additional fighters that take off from the carriers.

Try using the Claudes at 5k or 6k feet, both as anti-torpedo plane CAP as well as anti-search plane CAP. In the grand campaign, I do this in the DEI against the Commonwealth biplane torpedo planes with good results.

I have seen 18 and 25 pounders shooting at the invasion force, the 40mm Bofors is especially good at that!

Try two or three DDs on a surface mission with aggression set to "LOW." Especially on those dark and/or stormy nights, this way they can get close and launch torpedoes, then leave. If the enemy has non-surface combat ships there, those could be hurting. Think if you did this and torpedoed an enemy carrier so it could not launch aircraft the next day when each side launches airstrikes against each other.[X(] Lead with DDs like this, then have your heavier ships come in next.

You could also break up your Betty unit into smaller sizes and have one section at night set to bomb PM as well as Naval Search.

That's damned sneaky advice, Joe, but if I'm going to be the Jap devil I could use tricks like that. Which leads me into a whole new area of enquiry. How do you guys time this sort of thing, getting the raid to go in at night time? Are you suggesting this as a tactic to use on the USN CVs in the Coral Sea scenario? Since those CVs have cruisers with them, I can't see how I could get close enough to launch torpedoes with the CAs or the planes getting me.

I am going to give this scenario another shot before I move on to Guadalcanal. I've yet to get attacks with the Bettys on the USN CV group with Bettys. Twice I have had them raid in daylight, escort did not show up and they got mauled. I hear forumites speak of the Bettys with reverent fear, but I'm not seeing it. Which means I am not doing something right. My dream attack is Bettys doing torpedo runs on the carriers with a heavy Zero escort from the land bases. Then after they are mauled using the CVs to finish them off.

Back to the drawing board. And as always, fellows, much appreciation for the advice. I've not yet done any night ops, other than with those short range float planes which don't do much or see much because the USN stays out of their range. I'm going to try my luck with some night raids with the Bettys. What's the best weapon for them to use? I am assuming torpedoes for night raids.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You can also have the bombardment TF set to "Remain On Station" and then change them back to bombardment again for the next turn. I do this sometimes because they do not always use almost all of their ammo when they otherwise would. They will try to keep a couple of loads for enemy ships. The reason for the "No Escorts Bombard" is to save their ammo for anti-aircraft fire. Evven DDs on a bombardment mission with no obvious damage to the enemy units or facilities is useful.

Keep at least one unit on the ground bombarding the enemy, if not all of them. This will keep the enemies fatigue and disruption up so they will not have a chance for a beer.

You can also use Fast Transports for your Japanese cruisers and destroyers and carry units and/or supplies. You could even use these to take bases like Buna if they are relatively undefended. Then they become Surface Combat Task Forces with a full load of ammo.

Try to keep your air strikes going in at the same altitude otherwise they may not coordinate. Think of Torpedo 8 at Midway attacking with such a great fighter escort!

If you set your dive bombers to attack at 15k [:-] feet, they will probably level bomb.

The enemy CAP, especially if they have radar, will usually be able to climb above your attacking forces then dive. This is because the escorts are staying with the bombers as well as the warning of the raid with the RADAR seeing the raid coming in. With enough warning, the enemy CAP can also be augmented by additional fighters that take off from the carriers.

Try using the Claudes at 5k or 6k feet, both as anti-torpedo plane CAP as well as anti-search plane CAP. In the grand campaign, I do this in the DEI against the Commonwealth biplane torpedo planes with good results.

I have seen 18 and 25 pounders shooting at the invasion force, the 40mm Bofors is especially good at that!

Try two or three DDs on a surface mission with aggression set to "LOW." Especially on those dark and/or stormy nights, this way they can get close and launch torpedoes, then leave. If the enemy has non-surface combat ships there, those could be hurting. Think if you did this and torpedoed an enemy carrier so it could not launch aircraft the next day when each side launches airstrikes against each other.[X(] Lead with DDs like this, then have your heavier ships come in next.

You could also break up your Betty unit into smaller sizes and have one section at night set to bomb PM as well as Naval Search.

That's damned sneaky advice, Joe, but if I'm going to be the Jap devil I could use tricks like that. Which leads me into a whole new area of enquiry. How do you guys time this sort of thing, getting the raid to go in at night time? Are you suggesting this as a tactic to use on the USN CVs in the Coral Sea scenario? Since those CVs have cruisers with them, I can't see how I could get close enough to launch torpedoes with the CAs or the planes getting me.

I am going to give this scenario another shot before I move on to Guadalcanal. I've yet to get attacks with the Bettys on the USN CV group with Bettys. Twice I have had them raid in daylight, escort did not show up and they got mauled. I hear forumites speak of the Bettys with reverent fear, but I'm not seeing it. Which means I am not doing something right. My dream attack is Bettys doing torpedo runs on the carriers with a heavy Zero escort from the land bases. Then after they are mauled using the CVs to finish them off.

Back to the drawing board. And as always, fellows, much appreciation for the advice. I've not yet done any night ops, other than with those short range float planes which don't do much or see much because the USN stays out of their range. I'm going to try my luck with some night raids with the Bettys. What's the best weapon for them to use? I am assuming torpedoes for night raids.

All bombers/patrol aircraft carrying torpedoes take a big risk when attacking large ships with plenty of AA. The easiest target to hit is one flying straight at the ship and at an unchanging altitude (200 feet). Add to that the CAP usually present and maneuvering ships and it is hard to get a hit unless the attacking aircraft have overwhelming numbers and can set up a "hammer and anvil" attack. Highly trained carrier TB squadrons are best at this - Kates often get hits.

Don't judge too much by the Coral Sea scenario - it tries to simulate the RL battle where both sides suffered from confusion, lack of coordination, and lack of battle experience. You did better than historic because you had foreknowledge of enemy movements and what tactics are more effective than the RL ones.

[Randy Stead]

Hindsight, 20/20. Speaking of sight, I have an appointment today to get my eyes checked. I know I need new specs as I usually squint or close one eye to read text on the screen. I also suffer from some rare eye thing whereby I need prismatic lenses as with normal lenses I see split images. This means I have to torque my frames to get both images to merge. And this time no damned gradient bifocals. Never use them so why waste money on them.

Unfortunately there isn't much we can do in games to get rid of the historical hindsight that creeps into our games. Or taking modern skills back in time to our gaming world. For example, in many of the multiplayer online games, every pilot is an ace from many hours of simulated flying. In real life pilots were often thrown into combat with insufficient hours of training. How do you replicate the flying rabble that some air forces were historically, other than by getting people who are new to flight sims? Same with the tank games. I've seen people playing tank games where they make a T-34 perform like a dune buggy and pull gamy stunts that were not possible in real life physics. Many of the Red Army tank drivers had never operated a vehicle until they joined the ranks. I've read of tank drivers at Kursk who had only 4 or 5 hours driving experience in a tank.

How do you simulate being a raw recruit in a wargame, barely trained and suffering from low morale, etc? Just about every virtual pilot is the digital equivalent of Chuck Yeager at their computer skills. And of course, in real life you only get killed or badly injured once.

[BBfanboy]

The game tries to simulate this with specific skill levels for different types of missions and an Overall Experience level for flying hours. IRL the early pilot losses were so heavy that there were few highly skilled pilots. Once the Allies got ahead of the curve and provided better trained pilots from their initial training they got better than the Japanese and had better aircraft. The Japanese were on the wrong side of the curve and things just got worse for them.

Yes, we tend to have better pilots than historic because we know the importance of training and we are willing to give up ground rather than throw poorly trained pilots into the fray - another foresight decision.

[Randy Stead]

Same deal for the Luftwaffe. Started the war with some very experienced pilots, some with Spanish Civil War experience; Japan had combat experience from China. Then they got involved in war with several industrial giants. Skill and technology can keep you going for a while, but eventually numbers have a quality of their own. In the case of the U.S. they eventually had the numbers, the skill and the quality, also very vital, the fuel. I'm currently rereading Prange's "At Dawn We Slept" about 250 pages in. The IJN are making their plans for PH if the diplomacy failed. Quite a few of their senior officers, government and diplomats knew the industrial potential of the U.S. and her Allies. They foresaw that they would eventually be fighting US, Commonwealth, Dutch and Soviets; yet still decided on war. In retrospect we shake our heads, but we were not there at the time and we were not Japanese, a culture that had not known defeat for what, 2000 years or so, it was said?

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

Same deal for the Luftwaffe. Started the war with some very experienced pilots, some with Spanish Civil War experience; Japan had combat experience from China. Then they got involved in war with several industrial giants. Skill and technology can keep you going for a while, but eventually numbers have a quality of their own. In the case of the U.S. they eventually had the numbers, the skill and the quality, also very vital, the fuel. I'm currently rereading Prange's "At Dawn We Slept" about 250 pages in. The IJN are making their plans for PH if the diplomacy failed. Quite a few of their senior officers, government and diplomats knew the industrial potential of the U.S. and her Allies. They foresaw that they would eventually be fighting US, Commonwealth, Dutch and Soviets; yet still decided on war. In retrospect we shake our heads, but we were not there at the time and we were not Japanese, a culture that had not known defeat for what, 2000 years or so, it was said?

The Japanese definitely thought of themselves as a superior race (much as white peoples did for their race) and in so doing they underestimated the fighting spirit of their opponents. The whole Banzai charge idea was about causing a frightened enemy to break and run. It didn't work so well when grim Marines stuck to their guns.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

Same deal for the Luftwaffe. Started the war with some very experienced pilots, some with Spanish Civil War experience; Japan had combat experience from China. Then they got involved in war with several industrial giants. Skill and technology can keep you going for a while, but eventually numbers have a quality of their own. In the case of the U.S. they eventually had the numbers, the skill and the quality, also very vital, the fuel. I'm currently rereading Prange's "At Dawn We Slept" about 250 pages in. The IJN are making their plans for PH if the diplomacy failed. Quite a few of their senior officers, government and diplomats knew the industrial potential of the U.S. and her Allies. They foresaw that they would eventually be fighting US, Commonwealth, Dutch and Soviets; yet still decided on war. In retrospect we shake our heads, but we were not there at the time and we were not Japanese, a culture that had not known defeat for what, 2000 years or so, it was said?

The Japanese definitely thought of themselves as a superior race (much as white peoples did for their race) and in so doing they underestimated the fighting spirit of their opponents. The whole Banzai charge idea was about causing a frightened enemy to break and run. It didn't work so well when grim Marines stuck to their guns.

Especially machine guns. In the US Army on Saipan, there was a dentist who used one quite effectively. He as acting as the battalion medical officer. Unfortunately for his family, a Brigadier General thought that he was ineligible for the Medal Of Honor because he was a non-combatant. That was later rectified since he did not use the machine gun offensively!

[rustysi]

I've yet to get attacks with the Bettys on the USN CV group with Bettys. Twice I have had them raid in daylight, escort did not show up and they got mauled. I hear forumites speak of the Bettys with reverent fear, but I'm not seeing it. Which means I am not doing something right. My dream attack is Bettys doing torpedo runs on the carriers with a heavy Zero escort from the land bases.

I hate to be the party pooper, but...

LB's need a minimum level four AF to operate efficiently. Your largest AF is Rabaul, level 3. One restriction for operating from a smaller base than required is an extended range BL. That does not include torps for your Netties.

Read manual s9.4.

Ciao.

[RangerJoe]

Bettys and Nells are torpedo planes and thus are not restricted to carrying to the size 4 airbase.