Best way to play each power

Empires in Arms is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. Empires in Arms is a seven player game of grand strategy set during the Napoleonic period of 1805-1815. The unit scale is corps level with full diplomatic options

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Forward_March
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by Forward_March »

ORIGINAL: Pippin

Well, lets assume I am Russia. If France got too many VPs too fast, I do not think anyone would object (except France) if Britain subtracted points off of France. In fact, I could see a case where Britain could make profit from bribes here. Everyone donates a few dollars to Britain, and in turn Britain makes sure she keeps France tied down from crossing the finish line too quickly :P

I would object, no matter which power I was playing. And if I was Britain I surely wouldn't use it as a strategy. It's too ephemeral...chicanery. The purest of tricks. In an era where victory comes from diplomacy, battle, and management of funds, this is too much like pulling a rabbit from a hat. What would be the point of playing if no matter how hard you fought, someone could pull out the carpet from beneath you?

France: Checkmate!
Britain: Oh no you don't! Watch this! Presto! France (or Russia, or anyone else), all you've done, all you've worked for, is erased with the eraser on my magic pencil!

Horseapples!!!
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yammahoper
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by yammahoper »

The ability to manip VP supposedly represents GB massive influence around the globe, creating bad press and making other countries think poorly of them in general.

As for the ability of anyone to convince major powers they should declare war on GB for doing so, I almost laugh. Surely it is a matter of individual players and what the angered nation has to offer, not some morale failing of GB. It is indeed a game. I have always played to win and in general do not find the VP reduction stategy one I am good at employing, since I am instead always manuevering to stay in the dominant zone and score 10+ VP a turn myself, which is surely a more secure way to win than lowering my own score. I have a hard time imagining any player of GB mastering instead keeping everyones VP total low so he can win (and I have never seen GB win this way, though admittedly, I have also never seen GB win unless I was playing her). GB needs to keep the pressure on Fr. Certainly, after Au and Pr take a wooping from the Fr, I cannot see those players being angry over GB reducing Fr VP points. It is a matter of politics. If hlj has indeed seen GB players reducing VP pell mell then I have no problem believing his ability to draft others in a crusade against GB. Outside that, any half decent GB player should be able to avoid wars with Ru, Au and Pr unless he WANTS to fight them (Ru is the only one of these nations with a navy and the small GB army is not much of a threat to conquer her either).

So, while reducing points can be a good tactic, it is a good situational and occassional tactic. In my own experience, when I as GB created the coilition against a dominant Ru, I used the VP reduction to insure that Ru would not gain to many VP during the war and to appease my allies, who did not want to see Ru jump even more in points. So, as far as I can see, either hlj's GB player is not to ploitic in a game that requires it, or hlj IS the dominant political player in the games he plays in, sort of like our old days with Scott Wall, a man who would convince you to do something that later would have you going "Now WHY did I agree to THAT?!" BTW, he was the one who made Ru dominant.

yamma
...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...
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ardilla
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by ardilla »

Your comments rise a question.

In the EiH rules, GB number of ships had been reduce to 80, I guess because he had many ships abroad, not all of them in Europe....

So, since MG is going to add some new types of ships, from the EiH rules, is going to change the initial number of ships for GB also?!??!

Thank you in advance.
Regards.
Santiago y cierra España!!!
Forward_March
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by Forward_March »

Then they'll have to change them for everybody. Russia had some 90 ships of the line and frigates I have read. Opens up a whole new can of worms. Let's hope Turkish dhow's don't get counted;) Barbery pirates, too?
megalomania2003
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by megalomania2003 »

ORIGINAL: yammahoper@yahoo.com
So, as far as I can see, either hlj's GB player is not to ploitic in a game that requires it, or hlj IS the dominant political player in the games he plays in, sort of like our old days with Scott Wall, a man who would convince you to do something that later would have you going "Now WHY did I agree to THAT?!" BTW, he was the one who made Ru dominant.

yamma

Or the players he play with simply hate that tactic. In that case I would simply (as we have done where I play) agree, before game start, to play without this rule. I do not belive that it is essential to the game to let GB take victory points away from other players.
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Pippin
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by Pippin »

France: Checkmate!
Britain: Oh no you don't! Watch this! Presto! France (or Russia, or anyone else), all you've done, all you've worked for, is erased with the eraser on my magic pencil!

Horseapples!!!

It is not quite exactly like that. First of all, there is only a percentage Britain can reduce, and she has to have earned points first of all to even subtract them. It’s hurting her as well.

If you have correctly checkmated Britain, (Landed your corps into London strong enough to hold), then her magical hat isn’t going to help her here. At least I don’t see how.

And as mentioned before, what is Britain going to do, keep declaring wars on new players each month the second someone gets too many VPs? By pissing off the strong guys, how is she going to have victory points to even subtract while trying to defend herself?
Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…
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Telsor1
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by Telsor1 »

The Ney to cyrenaica strategy is legal, but only because French is already at war with Britain and Cy is automatically supported.

I generally have Ney sitting with a corp on the French fleet working as a potential threat and defence against Pippins strategy ( which is well known in my group ).

One point that doesn't seem to have been discussed greatly here is anti-brit strategies.. Amoung my group it's accepted that while it's nice to defeat France in the first war, you will get plenty more chances. Leave Britain alone for a couple of years, and they'll be nigh on impregnable.

Of course, as the UK, I have strategies to prevent this..every opportunity to destroy fleets is taken, along with bounties on ships destroyed ( I regularly pay $1 for yours and $3 for other countries ships sunk..I've even paid these to both sides in a battle! )...of course, anyone building ships gets on Britains bad side. Leaving your fleet at sea in range of major Brit fleets is suicide..I have DOW'd the turks to destroy their fleet before, then gone to an informal peace afterwards ( it's -1 PP if the turks have 1 fleets and you use Nelson, but I'll pay a PP to get rid of 20+ ships ).
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ardilla
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by ardilla »

About the Ney and Cyr strategy, well, it is good to cause more losses to the brits, but, is going to be difficult to win a battle with corps of 1 or 2 moral against 4.5 moral corps!!

And that results in a lose of PP for increase in 1 or 2 more kills to the brits...after all I dont know if it is worth...but I will try it if I can!!
Santiago y cierra España!!!
Telsor1
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by Telsor1 »

My preferred way of playing the african minors is to put the 5 inf in the city as garr and keep the cav in corp...it makes the corps higher morale ( 2 Vs 1.5 ) and you can always run it away and forage it to death if you don't feel like risking battle ( set it up away from the city if this is the case )
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yammahoper
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by yammahoper »

GB has one major weakness that if left open should be immediately exploited. It will require the French to leave two fleets and a 20 factor corp sitting in a port waiting for the right moment. If the GB player leaves a single port ungarrisoned, the Fr player needs to rush his navies into that port. Even if the GB player attacks in the same naval phase, and the Fr lose the naval battle, as long as the Fr have 2 ships remaining (to keep both fleet markers on the board) after the battle, then they will be able to land the corp because losers of port battles do not leave the port! Rather, the attacker returns to the blockade box and prepares for another attack agaonst the port, which will be too late. Far worse for GB is if the Fr make the move AFTER GB has made its naval move, thus allowing capture of the port without loss of a ship and gaining control of the port guns if GB decides to attack next naval phase. Talk about pie in the GB players face...not that this has EVER, err, happened to ME...no, no, no...this is all HYPOTHETICAL, of course.

Ok, it DID happen to me. Needing troops for a new corp, I took the entire garrison from one city without realizing what I had done, thus allowing Fr to get froggy. This of course disrupted my invasion in Italy as I disbanded corps and ploped them down home to fight nappy. While the Au was left hanging with only two british corps for support, I did pull nappy out of the battle. BTW, we had six battles, three to Nappy and three to Wellington before casualties caused Nappy to flee Britain and surrender his last four factors.

yamma
...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...
Telsor1
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by Telsor1 »

I still remember my first game...first turn.

I was the brits and the french/spanish decided to work the newbie..

they set up the bulk of their fleets in the london blockade box...the rest in ports under corp.

Being new, I moved first, and, witha little luck, managed to do some major damage to the bad guys fleets...Of course, after winning that fight my battle fleets were stuck in the blockade box, from which you can't intercept, and the UK was rapidly overrun by more troops than I could dream of dealing with. In the surrender, they destroyed my fleets, and left me a relatively minor power. I learned from that however :devil:
hlj
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by hlj »

ORIGINAL: yammahoper@yahoo.com

GB has one major weakness that if left open should be immediately exploited. It will require the French to leave two fleets and a 20 factor corp sitting in a port waiting for the right moment. If the GB player leaves a single port ungarrisoned, the Fr player needs to rush his navies into that port. Even if the GB player attacks in the same naval phase, and the Fr lose the naval battle, as long as the Fr have 2 ships remaining (to keep both fleet markers on the board) after the battle, then they will be able to land the corp because losers of port battles do not leave the port! Rather, the attacker returns to the blockade box and prepares for another attack agaonst the port, which will be too late. Far worse for GB is if the Fr make the move AFTER GB has made its naval move, thus allowing capture of the port without loss of a ship and gaining control of the port guns if GB decides to attack next naval phase. Talk about pie in the GB players face...not that this has EVER, err, happened to ME...no, no, no...this is all HYPOTHETICAL, of course.

Ok, it DID happen to me. Needing troops for a new corp, I took the entire garrison from one city without realizing what I had done, thus allowing Fr to get froggy. This of course disrupted my invasion in Italy as I disbanded corps and ploped them down home to fight nappy. While the Au was left hanging with only two british corps for support, I did pull nappy out of the battle. BTW, we had six battles, three to Nappy and three to Wellington before casualties caused Nappy to flee Britain and surrender his last four factors.

yamma
EIA RULES:
6.2.5.1 TRANSPORTATION MOVEMENT PROCEDURE: The corps and the fleet must both begin in the same port land area. They move together until in the sea area or blockade box adjacent to the land area in which the corps is to land or until reaching a port. Fleets and the corps they transport may enter other ports only if controlled or with access.
EIA Glossary:
CONTROLLED (FRIENDLY) CITY/PORT--A controlled city/port is any vacant city/port in that major power's territory, or any city/port in which that major power has factors, whether besieged or not

That strategy seems to be against the rules...
You can only enter a british port if you control it, or if you have access from GB. [:-]
HLJ
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xXx
hlj
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by hlj »

ORIGINAL: Telsor1

I still remember my first game...first turn.

I was the brits and the french/spanish decided to work the newbie..

they set up the bulk of their fleets in the london blockade box...the rest in ports under corp.

Being new, I moved first, and, witha little luck, managed to do some major damage to the bad guys fleets...Of course, after winning that fight my battle fleets were stuck in the blockade box, from which you can't intercept, and the UK was rapidly overrun by more troops than I could dream of dealing with. In the surrender, they destroyed my fleets, and left me a relatively minor power. I learned from that however :devil:

Next time: Set up all of your fleet in the channel (be sure to place all 7 counters on the map, and have roughly the same amount of ships in all of them) , sue everybody for peace... France has to say unconditional, so theres no problem there, if spain says conditional, then give it to him and continue your war against France. If spain says unconditional, then accept peace with him or france depending on who you think will take the mildest peace conditions Then continue the war with the person who got left out of the peace, and choose to move last in the naval phase ^_^

If you continue your war with france, then you hopefully have all of your ships. perhaps spain removed some of them, but you will be left with about 70 and that is more than enough to keep the french player at bay. Your fleet is in the channel, ready to intercept any french fleet carrying troops to england, and if you dont intercept them all, you stil have your naval move to finish the job.

If you continue your war with Spain, then it is the same strategy, exept you dont mind a single spanish corps in England, he have poor morale, and his leaders arent great, so with your morale you should be able to earn some pp against him there ^_^

If someone have a better strategy, then please share it with me [:D]

HLJ
Regards

xXx
hlj
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by hlj »

[:D] sorry the content of this post was no longer relevant, so I deleted it.

HLJ
Regards

xXx
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yammahoper
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by yammahoper »

Doggone it, I just typed a long entry and it was wiped out! Sigh, I aint going through that all again.

hlj is right about the rule as posted, but the port battle rules show that a nation can enter a pert without permission. As such, after a long arguement/discussion and vote, we decided that if a port could be entered without permission in one circumstance, it could be entered under any. Alos, ports had to be garrisoned. Also, a nation could land a corp without permission in a port, or fleets in an eco phase, but this was grounds for an immediate declaration of war.

Then I apologized for misinforming anyone.

Much less eloquent, but geesh, gimme a break.

yamma
...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...
hlj
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by hlj »

EIA RULES:
6.3.5.2 PORT RETREATS: If the naval combat takes place in a port, the attacking fleets (win or lose) must always retreat to the port's blockade box, and the defending fleets remain in the port (no pursuit).

You are right, you may enter a port, but only to fight enemy ships located in that port, and you are forced to leave the port, wether you win or loose.

A house rule that states otherwise is fine, just as long as that is what it is refered to. ^_^


HLJ
Regards

xXx
Telsor1
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by Telsor1 »

Erm...That was a recolection of my first game...long, long ago :)
Barbu
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by Barbu »

Most of the following is assuming option 11.9.2 (mandatory war and peace conditions between FR and GB) is used.

Russia: At the beginning of the game, Russia is the only country that doesn't need to fear anything from anyone. As such, Russian strategy should work on maintaining this status and it's freedom.

There is one threat that can be developped faster than Russia can react and realistically force peace talks: a landing at St-Petersburg, probably from the British - landed by british ships anyway. As such this should be one critical aspect of Russian grand strategy that the russian player should never lose sight of.

The first thing to do is to form a lasting alliance with the spaniards. They are russia's best natural ally, sharing 2 potential enemies (GB and Turkey), and having virtually no potential disagreement.

Second would be to take a decision regarding the Fr-GB war. This would be strongly influenced by the personality of the players and your relationship with them. Preferrably I'd try to keep the war between Fr and GB going forever. If you really have to choose, it's better in the long term to pick France since an anti-french coalition can perfectly succeed without the british should it be necessary to bring France down to size, while it would be much harder to beat GB if the french fleet is at the bottom of the sea/scuttled/unable or unwilling to join due to peace conditions. But like I said, the statu quo existing at the beginning of the game is much more preferrable compared to an hostile GB that isn't trading with you, taking victory points away from you and plotting their revenge.

Regarding Pr and As: These 2 exist mainly to do the job of keeping France to a reasonable size without forcing you to take actions. If it looks like they are on the verge of being crushed by France (unconditional surrender for one or both), it is better to intervene right away before it gets to that point. The reverse is also true. France must stay reasonably strong to ensure that Pr/As efforts during the mandatory peace are turned toward the next round with France. Basically it's in Russia's interest to ignore them as much as possible. If you do have to intervene to save either side from unconditional surrender, then you should request Poland as a prize for your "help". Beyond these circumstances, I wouldn't look at poland unless it's acquisition means dominance for Russia - Protecting Poland will mean tying down large numbers of troops, losing a lot of the freedom of action that is Russia's strength.

Regarding Tu: Russia's best source of political points. It's even possible to beat the Turks upside down and rack up the PPs without having to crush them economically or militarily! Just pound their feudal and then make peace or relatively lenient terms. Nothing the Turkish player can do about it either as long as the Russian made clear of it's benevolent neutrality toward the As/pr/GB alliance.

In general the main focus for the Russian player should be to build up it's core corps (3 or 4 cavalry corps, 5-6 infantry corps, guard, artillery) and then the fleet. Most of the time You will be fighting pretty far from your homeland, and using the bulk of the last 10 infantry corps will be hard and usually somewhat ineffective, especially considering their relative weakness (only 10I). Better to build the denser infantry corps and a few others, the specialists, and then the fleet. A strong Russian fleet will go a long way in protecting Russia's freedom of action. Should Russia be invaded the "standard" way (from the polish or turkish frontier, headed for Moscow or St-Petersburgh), having a large amount of militia won't matter too much in the kind of war you should fight if you are to successfully repulse the invasion.


Spain: First off, always remember that Spain's power is essentially about her fleet. If the british are not distracted by the french or another opponent, the Spanish fleet should remain in Cadiz and not move until such a distraction exists. If you lose your fleet, you are out of the game, simple as that.

Spain has 2 neighbors: France and Great Britain. Both can completely crush you in a fair fight. The good thing is that with option 11.9.2 they start at war. It is in Spain's interest to keep the rivalry going. As long as they are busy with each other, Spain can enjoy freedom of action. Should you need to take side, it's better to side with France. France can protect you from the british while the reverse is not as true, and you have more to fear from Great Britain than from France. The only thing France can gain by attacking Spain is PPs, at the cost of an hostile neighbor. Great Britain stands to remove a very substantial naval threat, gain a substantial amount of north african minors and maybe even Portugal, and PPs.

As long as Spain stays neutral GB cannot realistically be defeated. That's not as true regarding France, so Spain should try to do everything possible to make sure France never has to surrender unconditionally (unless GB has been defeated already in which case you don't care as much - you might even want in the coalition for the mandatory peace and avoid being leeched for free PPs).

Spain's best ally is Russia. They can protect each other from GB to a large extent, and they need not fear much from France - or anyone else for that matter. And can work in synergic fashion to help each other achieve their objectives.

At the beginning of the game, Spain's approach should be one of slow but steady growth. Portugal is surely yours, as is a substantial part of north africa, and if you are assertive enough without overly antagonizing Austria and especially France, Naples as well.

Like Russia, most of the fighting done by Spain will be done oversea and/or far from home. There is no need to build a large regular army beyond what can actually be deployed (and what is necessary to hold Cadiz). Spain's priority beyond the first few corps should be to build up the navy as much as possible.

Spain's best source of political points is Turkey (poor Turks). With absolute naval superiority Spain can strike pretty much anywhere along the Turkish coast and reimbark and land somewhere else when the Turks are on the verge of gathering overwhelming forces. Always keep the strategic initiative i.e. do not let your army fight a large number of feudal corps and you will find you cannot really lose.


Prussia and Austria: I am lumping them together because the germanies have to stick together or at least one or most likely both will be doomed to a long and depressing game. Their fate is so tied to each other that I even think that they could be played by the same player should your game be short one player.

The Pr/AS team occupies an uncomfortable central position. Depending on who is playing France, Russia and Turkey and their actions, there might be not be much you can do at the beginning of the game. This is the major problem to deal with when playing these 2 powers - you may have to constantly react to others actions. It can be stressful, but the action is fun if you don't mind taking a drubbing here and then :)

On the good side, both countries have excellent armies in terms of corps density and cavalry, 2 great leaders, and at the beginning of the game, access to many minors and consequently relatively strong economies.

The most dangerous enemy is France, by far. By virtue of it's strength, and because it will oppose As/Pr in the struggle for control of the many minor countries in Germany and Italy. Pr and As, if well coordinated, are a good match for France at the beginning of the 1805 campaign, and have a slight edge if GB is included in the coalition as well - though victory isn't a sure thing at all. The french have superior mobility, superior morale, superior leaders. The coalition has superior mass, naval superiority, and a lot more infantry corps which can come in handy in the puzzle that is the struggle for minor countries.

Doing a pre-declaration of war has the advantage of saving PPs in case France does the same against either, but Pr and As don't have the cash to fight a winter campain at the game start while France does. It might be wiser to wait until April 1805, though you could declare war right away and only start major operations in April, but a smart french player could take advantage of it. In many ways, starting the war earlier is better, while you have cavalry superiority and the french guard hasn't been built up yet. With only 5 guard factors he can only commit at +2 once, while the Austro-Prussian alliance can field 3 guard corps. The benefits from having Wellington and Blucher in 1806 might not make up for losing these temporary advantages.

Defeating France should be As and Pr's first priority. As long as France is dominant, you will have the french army hovering over everything you do. Even if you do defeat France, if it's army hasn't been virtually destroyed you should dedicate all of your peacetime efforts in preparing for the next round with the french.

About Great Britain: A natural ally. GB can provide much needed money, quality troops if given time to build their army, operational flexibility through fleets, and they can draw substantial French troops away from Germany by just exisiting and forcing the french to prevent a unopposed crossing of the channel - and marching to Paris - or the seizure of ports protecting the French navy. If Great Britain doesn't want to finance you and provide military support against France, it can mean they came to a form of agreement with France and that can mean big trouble. Spain and Russia, at least, might be interested in hearing of this - or at least let the british player know that before he makes a final decision.

About Russia: If Russia stabs you in the back while you are fighting France, won't accept a conditional, and no help is forthcoming from another major power, then you may have to throw the towel for the time being and surrender as early as possible and start rebuilding hoping the circumstances will favor you better the next round. Russia can really mess you up. If giving up the whole of Poland can mean Russia will be off your back, then don't hesitate to do it. These 4 provinces mean pretty much nothing compared to what is at stake if at war with the french.

Turkey: Not as big as a threat as Russia, but one nonetheless. The austrian insurrection corps backed by small regular force can seriously slow down the turks but will be eventually overwhelmed. Russia's or Spain's attitude can influence Turkey's choice in invading or not and you should work on that. I'd resist the temptation of using Turkey as a punching bag for PPs, unless France has been utterly crushed - in which case Austrian dominance becomes a real possibility. As I mentioned above, as long as France is dominant and has a substantial army, you can never have too many resources to face them.

Spain: There should be little interaction between you and spanish at first but that may change as the situation evolves.

Poland: Don't create Poland unless you somehow managed to beat Russia, or unless you are creating Poland with the intent of ceding it to the Russian player. As long as the polish provinces aren't part of Poland they can't be conquered by Russia without formal peace terms. If the russians can be bribed to help you fight the french through ceding Poland, then don't hesitate to do it.



More to come later (maybe!)
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Murat
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by Murat »

A lot of people have asked about strategies and this seems to be buried so I am trying to move it forward. [:'(]
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Pippin
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RE: Best way to play each power

Post by Pippin »

When playing spain, I like to think of her protected by a giant wall. Anywhere the ocean boarders her, I consider there to be an invisible wall which many other nations don't have the advantage of. I also will stare a lot at the British transport ships and think of them as little tiny ladders what will be used to help get factors to climb over my walls with. If I can do anything to stop those ladders in their tracks, then I wont have to worry about the brits climbing over my walls and landing inside my territory.


Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…
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