In my game with Alfrake he managed to do this to me and it cost me heavily.
As an aside you can station long range bombers in Wuchow and Nanning (I used IL-4's and Blenheims) and fly supply into Manila to help out with the defense.
ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
ORIGINAL: ADavidB
I still hold Clark Field and Bataan, so I've got a bit of a breather there.
Remember the second he steps on Clark Field with a unit now, you'll be unable to get any more troops into Manila due to the ZOC rules. Now is the time to consolidate your forces if you are going to, otherwise the ZOC rules will divide your troops and make holding out for a long time a lot more difficult. Get everyone into Manila ASAP, there or Bataan, before he splits your forces for good.
In one of my 2 PBEM's that are about where you are, I got all my troops into Manila before he attacked Clark and sucked all the supplies into it. Plus, forts are being built up with a huge amount of Assault Value there. [:D][:D]
It will be tough to take and require a large force to lay siege to. [&o]
ORIGINAL: ADavidB
I still hold Clark Field and Bataan, so I've got a bit of a breather there.
Remember the second he steps on Clark Field with a unit now, you'll be unable to get any more troops into Manila due to the ZOC rules. Now is the time to consolidate your forces if you are going to, otherwise the ZOC rules will divide your troops and make holding out for a long time a lot more difficult. Get everyone into Manila ASAP, there or Bataan, before he splits your forces for good.
Jim
I've been really surprised that he hasn't tried that sooner. He even let some of my other zoc-trapped units further afield get free. I suspect that he is keeping his units back in order to get their preparation levels up before he attacks. Obviously, my guys aren't going anywhere soon.
I prefer to put troops into Manila over Bataan, because there are no inherent defensive advantages in Bataan in this game design, primarily thanks to the 60 mile hexes.
In my game with Alfrake he managed to do this to me and it cost me heavily.
As an aside you can station long range bombers in Wuchow and Nanning (I used IL-4's and Blenheims) and fly supply into Manila to help out with the defense.
I'm usually too busy using my long range bombers to attack besieging Japanese land units elsewhere to have them free to fly supplies, but that is an interesting idea. On the other hand, since Treespider is attacking everywhere at once in China, he is also forcing me to use supplies there like crazy too, so I don't really have much to spare. But I'll keep the idea in the back of my mind, in case an opportunity arises.
In one of my 2 PBEM's that are about where you are, I got all my troops into Manila before he attacked Clark and sucked all the supplies into it. Plus, forts are being built up with a huge amount of Assault Value there. [:D][:D]
It will be tough to take and require a large force to lay siege to. [&o]
I've tried three approaches in various matches:
- Move everyone into Bataan
- Move everyone into Manila
- Move everyone out of Bataan and split them between Clark and Manila
I've usually hung on the longest with the last approach because it makes my opponent split his forces. Right now the Japanese forces at Manila are more along the line of nuisance troops; I expect the main attack to be at Clark. We'll see how it goes.
The Far East remains a cauldron of activity while the Eastern and Central Pacific sleep quietly. For example, no Japanese subs have been spotted in the Eastern and Central Pacific regions for several days, although a Glen sighting indicates that at least one sub is still around. Japanese subs are showing up in the Solomons and Eastern New Guinea, and as well, for the first time a Japanese sub showed up at Brisbane. (We'll get an opportunity to see if Australian ASW is any better than US ASW.)
On the other hand, there is action in all fronts in the DEI, PI, Malaya, Burma and China. Treespider is sending out multiple large air raids on Manila, the remaining Allied-controlled Malayan bases and the DEI. The Japanese air raids continue to be aimed primarily at Allied air bases, even though I obviously don't have much in the way of air power at the front-line bases. I presume that Treespider is doing this in order to make the defensive forces use up supplies repairing damage, and also, in the case of Manila, make the Allied engineers spend time repairing airfield damage rather than building up fortifications. (There's a good change to recommend to the Upgrade Committee - allow a player to "toggle off" repairs to bases selectively.)
Zeros came back to Hengchow again, but I was surprised as it remained a single squadron. Oh well, I'll let that third of the AVG that I pulled back rest up for a bit as long as Treespider doesn't send bombers back in to hit Hengchow. Treespider has also been sending repeated Zero sweeps and also strong bomber raids at Palembang and Kendari. Sure, he obviously intends to invade Kendari soon, but he is sure doing an overkill with the air power. But hey, at least those Japanese planes aren't attacking somewhere else that I'm more concerned with defending. [&o]
I started my bombing campaign in Burma this turn:
Day Air attack on Rangoon, at 29, 34
Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 7
P-40B Tomahawk x 12
No Allied losses
Airbase hits 1
That must be truly instilling "paralyzing fear" into Treespider's heart… [;)] That is why I have so little time for the constant whining of the Japanese fanboys - one can play this game in a historic manner if one chooses. But if a Japanese player insists on playing ahistorically, then what should an Allied player do? (Okay, that's enough "soapbox rhetoric" for now. [:'(] )
In other air action, Dutch bombers and escorts got by some Zeros at Brunei and hit two Japanese APs with bombs. These nuisance raids do count in the long run; for example, a Japanese TK and PG sank this turn from old damage.
There was a lot of significant Land Combat action. Japanese troops tried a shock attack on Ichang which was defeated, but the fortification level was reduced by one to three, and there are an awful lot of Japanese troops there. I don't believe that I will be able to hold on to Ichang until reinforcements arrive. Wuchow only suffered an artillery attack which accomplished nothing. Treespider appears to be pulling back some of his troops from there; maybe to redeploy them or maybe just to rest and prepare them. Things continued quiet at Changsha and Yenen, although more Japanese troops are creeping up on Yenen and maybe Homan too.
For whatever reason, Treespider tried yet another shock attack at Mersing, which failed quite miserable. But Malacca was taken in a single shock attack, so my troops at Mersing will likely be trapped there soon. I've got troops trapped at Georgetown too and they had to endure an artillery attack this turn.
In Burma Treespider has an incredible quantity of combat troops moving forward. His troops took Pagan against no opposition this turn, so that will provide yet another target for my LBA next turn. For some reason Treespider hasn't brought any base support units up yet, so he doesn't have any aircraft in Southern Burma. That allows me to continue to use my air power at will.
I believe that I have the situation in Burma well in hand, with all my troops either pulled back on well on their way to their planned positions. From the quantity of Japanese troops on the move, it appears that Treespider will attempt to cut the Burma Road on the ground. That's cool by me - I believe that I can stop him and I much prefer to see his troops suffering in the malarial jungle than on board ships sailing to India.
I had two Indian Bde get cut off at Georgetown and used my subs to transport the 6th Bde to the northern most port on Sumatra before it got captured. Hopefully, I can run in a single AK to take them back to India.
Like I said before, we are at the same spot in our games, and I "just" noticed that amount of supplies at Toboali (over 20k) as I was looking for a place to base my Dutch PT boats. [X(] It might be worth your effort to send a single AK there to take the supplies to either Singapore or Soerabaja (since the game mechanics often don't go after a single ship TF). [:D]
I had two Indian Bde get cut off at Georgetown and used my subs to transport the 6th Bde to the northern most port on Sumatra before it got captured. Hopefully, I can run in a single AK to take them back to India.
Like I said before, we are at the same spot in our games, and I "just" noticed that amount of supplies at Toboali (over 20k) as I was looking for a place to base my Dutch PT boats. [X(] It might be worth your effort to send a single AK there to take the supplies to either Singapore or Soerabaja (since the game mechanics often don't go after a single ship TF). [:D]
Tobali is a very nice little "present" for the Japanese player. It produces tons of supplies - supposedly to "simulate" the presence of tin mines.
While single ship TFs tend to avoid the notice of the AI, they don't any decent pbem player, so I'm not bothering to send anything to Tobali.
Treespider sent another CL/DD TF off hunting for Dutch PT boats again, and his TF found a couple at Palembang. As expected, the Japanese TF took care of one of the PT boats but the other got away unscathed. Unexpectedly, the Japanese TF didn't do anything else; I expected it to do a bombardment. But this loss was more than balanced off by the sinking in port of two more Japanese APDs. I think that Treespider has lost 9 of them now.
It turns out that I was right and Treespider was paradropping troops into Cotabato, because a Topsy was shot down by flak there this turn. Other Japanese troops also landed via transport ship. But there still aren't many in place and once again the end-of-turn shock attack that is required for paradrops failed despite there only being a week base force in the base. I'm going to try a couple of small surprises in the region this turn, just to remind Treespider that he isn't "playing by himself". [;)]
The usual aerial bombardments took place, with Japanese forces bombing Manila and various locations in Southern Malaya. Zeros also went out on sweeps, but in small numbers and mainly to bases where I don't have any CAP flying at this time. Allied bombers got more practice in Burma:
There are still no Japanese aircraft in Burma, so this was an easy case of "practice makes perfect".
Things were relatively quiet in China, other than a Japanese unit driving a Chinese HQ off the road south of Wuchow. I had forgotten to move the HQ out of the way and move and infantry unit in instead. There was also an artillery bombardment at Ichang. I'm still bombing the Japanese troops at Ichang regularly, so their bombardments aren't having a great effect at this time. The other land attacks were in Malaya, where Mersing and Georgetown were bombarded, and a shock attack at Kuala Lumpur that failed, but did a lot of damage anyway.
In naval news, a Japanese sub showed up off of Los Angeles again and several Japanese subs showed up in the South Pacific, so I'll give my ASW forces more practice next turn.
The Combat Replay once again gave that odd, mismatched report of a "Day Attack on Kendari" while showing the attack occurring at Palembang. The Combat Report gave the correct location for Kendari, and an earlier attack on Kendari this turn was correct in both the Replay and the Report. There was also an attack on Palembang that gave the correct Replay and Report. I'll just keep this in the back of my memory and see if it happens again somewhere else.
But then, Treespider is attacking so many places that it is hard to keep track. Japanese planes blasted the remaining Allied bases in Malaya, Palembang, Manila and various Chinese targets. My Chinese bombers did get off a couple of nice little attacks, but the scale of effect is totally different.
In naval action, Treespider once again sent a 1 CL/4 DD TF to hit the Dutch PT boats at Pontianak. Again, one PT boat was sunk. This time one of the PT boats did get a shot off, but didn't hit a Japanese DD. And region-wide rainy weather prevented any of my LBA from trying their luck on the retiring Japanese TF. Treespider also restarted his activities in the Solomons with a landing at Shortlands. He has plenty of subs in the region too, so I'm guessing that he will be sending troops to Lunga soon.
The main action this turn was on the Land. Japanese troops tried a deliberate attack at Manila that was easily repulsed. I'm really curious as to why Treespider is treating Manila/Clark/Bataan so casually. I wonder if he is planning to use the usual Philippine invasion troops somewhere else?
China is turning into a real mess as Treespider continues to break up units into pieces in so that he can cut off my bases while still maintaining concerted attacks. He is simply taking advantage of the Movement rules. I guess I know what to expect if he invades India.
Even though Treespider has pulled back a number of units from Changsha, he attempted a shock attack this turn, and was whacked hard for it. A deliberate attack at Ichang was also repulsed handily, but now with the road north cut off, and the Supply rules ignoring the 120 miles (two hexes wide) of open, unimpeded countryside that sits outside of the Japanese zoc, the ability of my troops at Ichang to resist will decrease rapidly. I still have plenty of troops on their way, but with the Movement rules they won't even get close for weeks yet.
And finally in China, Wuchow received a minor artillery attack. I'm bring more troops down and trying to also spread out units in the Southern countryside to avoid getting more units cut off by a few squads. I hate to waste my time doing this sort of thing, but that's what the Game allows, so I have to be prepared to counter it.
In Malaya a shock attack at Mersing failed but reduced the fortifications. I don't expect those troops there to stand much longer. Kuala Lumpur was easily captured by the Japanese in a shock attack, and Georgetown received another artillery bombardment. And in the Philippines, Cotabato finally fell to a shock attack - something that probably should have happened a turn or two ago.
I had two Indian Bde get cut off at Georgetown and used my subs to transport the 6th Bde to the northern most port on Sumatra before it got captured. Hopefully, I can run in a single AK to take them back to India.
Like I said before, we are at the same spot in our games, and I "just" noticed that amount of supplies at Toboali (over 20k) as I was looking for a place to base my Dutch PT boats. [X(] It might be worth your effort to send a single AK there to take the supplies to either Singapore or Soerabaja (since the game mechanics often don't go after a single ship TF). [:D]
Tobali is a very nice little "present" for the Japanese player. It produces tons of supplies - supposedly to "simulate" the presence of tin mines.
While single ship TFs tend to avoid the notice of the AI, they don't any decent pbem player, so I'm not bothering to send anything to Tobali.
Thanks -
Dave
Are you not using this supply because it is a perceived exploit to use 1 ship TFs vs the AI (I don't believe this is an exploit either as I lose many ships in 1 ship TFs to air attack and those same ships run quite a risk from subs) or simply because the presence of tin (resource) on this island should not mean immediate equal supply of ammo, weapons, food, avgas etc?
Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan
Are you not using this supply because it is a perceived exploit to use 1 ship TFs vs the AI (I don't believe this is an exploit either as I lose many ships in 1 ship TFs to air attack and those same ships run quite a risk from subs) or simply because the presence of tin (resource) on this island should not mean immediate equal supply of ammo, weapons, food, avgas etc?
I'm not bothering to try to get supply from Toboali because my opponents both control Kuching and good air bases in Malaya, and to send AKs to Toboali and have them sit there trying to load supplies is silly. Either the Japanese LBA will whack any ship there, or my opponent will send in some fast cruisers and whack the ship.
There are plenty of other places where I can pick up supply and not throw away ships.
As for whether or not Toboali ought to be providing supplies in that region, I think it it a garbage idea that is there solely to provide local supplies for a Japanese player. If it were really supposed to represent "tin" it ought to be "resources", which then have to be shipped somewhere to be "processed".
In any event, it is just another little irritation compared to the big stuff that is wrong with the Game design.
The Allied defense started to fall apart in a big way in the Far East this turn, demonstrating that it is really a house-of-cards. A big, BB-lead Japanese TF sailed into Palembang, brushed the Dutch PT aside, and bombarded the base. I had already pulled most of the planes out of Palembang, so this wasn't too costly an attack. But at the same time none of the British or Dutch air units in the region could mount any sort of attack on any of the many Japanese TFs that are sailing around at will in the region. Experience and morale is in the dumps for the Allied air units in the region and even when they do their rare attacks, they aren't successful.
Japanese paratroops landed at Banjamasin this turn, despite a number of Topsys being hit by flak. The obligatory shock attack didn't capture the base, but it wasn't repulsed very strongly either. There are a number of other Japanese efforts going on simultaneously in the region, including a TF sailing towards Tarakan and another sailing towards Timor. I can't do anything about the Tarakan attack other to try to move a sub into the path of the TF, and to move my air units out of Tarakan. In the case of the attack on Timor, I may be able to interfere with it, but there may well be a Japanese carrier back-up waiting in the wings too.
In Malaya I was burned by the Movement rules again. The Japanese captured Mersing, and my troops there surrendered instead of retreating, even though the retreat path didn't have any Japanese troops in the way - at the time. But thanks to the Movement rules, the Japanese troops got to move first during the turn, cutting off my troops.
In Burma Treespider now has at least 16 units on the ground and has finally put some air units into Rangoon. His forces also captured Mandalay. I'm sending some bombers in to hit the air fields at Mandalay this turn, just to see if I can discourage Treespider from placing air units there. It might not work, but if he wants to fight for control of the air over Mandalay he won't be able to do as much elsewhere. And elsewhere, Japanese air power was overwhelming, with multiple large attacks throughout the Far East. BTW - the Kendari air attacks were shown correctly this time in the Combat Replay.
In other news, a Japanese sub mined Darwin Harbor. I found out about it rather harmlessly as an MSW sailed in on ASW duty, found the mines, and cleaned some of them. The odd thing about ASW in base hexes in this game is that my ASW ships can't seem to find any Japanese subs in the base hexes, even if the subs sit around for several turns in a row. At one time in earlier versions of the Game, being in a base hex increased the odds of a sub being spotted and attacked - now it seems to be the reverse.
Elsewhere, Japanese troops captured Shortlands. I'm expecting troops to show up at Lunga soon, and I'm hoping to be able to do something about that. It will be hard to maintain surprise in the region, however, because there are lots of Japanese subs around. Speaking of Japanese subs, the one good piece of news that I received this turn was that I-173 sank on its way back to port.
In the land war in Malaya, in addition to what happened at Mersing, Georgetown only received an artillery bombardment again. I can't understand why Treespider isn't finishing it off. In the Philippines, Japanese troops finally closed in on Clark Field.
In China the war of manoeuvring continued, with the Japanese still one step ahead of the Chinese in most places thanks to movement route advantages. There were deliberate Japanese attacks at Ichang and Wuchow that were repelled. The situation at Wuchow is improving while at the same time the situation at Ichang is degrading. Changsha only received a Japanese artillery attack.
The odd thing about ASW in base hexes in this game is that my ASW ships can't seem to find any Japanese subs in the base hexes, even if the subs sit around for several turns in a row. At one time in earlier versions of the Game, being in a base hex increased the odds of a sub being spotted and attacked - now it seems to be the reverse.
I first noticed this (subs enjoying sitting in base hexes) when playing WPO - so my guess is the WPO changes which got back ported to WITP in version 1.7.9.5 are at work. Given the various abstractions that exist in the game, I'm not sure this is totally bad. I still think you auto-spot the sub .. but they might be harder to hit than before. On the other hand, if there is enough ASW in the hex, they don't attack much either.
The odd thing about ASW in base hexes in this game is that my ASW ships can't seem to find any Japanese subs in the base hexes, even if the subs sit around for several turns in a row. At one time in earlier versions of the Game, being in a base hex increased the odds of a sub being spotted and attacked - now it seems to be the reverse.
I first noticed this (subs enjoying sitting in base hexes) when playing WPO - so my guess is the WPO changes which got back ported to WITP in version 1.7.9.5 are at work. Given the various abstractions that exist in the game, I'm not sure this is totally bad. I still think you auto-spot the sub .. but they might be harder to hit than before. On the other hand, if there is enough ASW in the hex, they don't attack much either.
I didn't know that WPO changes were ported back into WitP. Was that a "good thing" or a "bad thing"?
Something is going on in the blizzards of the Aleutians; S-34 was at Kiska to refuel and it was attacked ASW ships! But I got no detection out of it and no Japanese TFs showed up in the region. Just what is Treespider up to this time? Oh well, there is nothing much I can do about it whether it is just a nuisance raid or a major strike, so I'll just watch and see. Fortunately I don't have much in the region other than "real estate".
There was a fair amount of naval action this turn. Unfortunately, most of it was the doing of the Japanese, although the Allies had a little success. An Australian MSW off of Darwin attacked I-153 but missed. Now I've got that ship back to MSW duties and trying to sweep the port. I-172 got past another MSW on escort duty and put a couple of torpedoes into a tanker just off of Canton Island. Fortunately, the escorts of a passing TF hit I-172. I've got more ASW ships heading to Canton Island to try to help out.
Treespider continued PT boat-hunting in the Philippines and DEI. A Japanese CL/DD TF attacked the American PTs at Davao, sinking one. Another duplicate Japanese CL/DD TF attacked the Dutch PTs at Pontianak and sank one of them too. I'm not a big fan of the changes that were made to the PT model a few game-revisions back; PTs are almost useless now.
As expected, a cruiser TF came in to whack Tarakan. Some Dutch bombers tried to attack, but that was a waste. Later on, more Dutch bombers found an AP and an AK in Brunei without any CAP and put a bomb into each. But otherwise the skies throughout the Far East belonged to the Japanese. Manila in particular was whacked very hard.
In the ground war, Ichang and Wuchow received artillery bombardments. I am still moving forces in an attempt to prevent encirclement of my forward Chinese bases, with these two bases needing troops the worst at this time. Clark Field received a deliberate attack, and Johore Bahru received a shock attack, but both held. However, I don't expect either to last very long. And Japanese troops marched in and captured Taung Gyi against no opposition.
I didn't know that WPO changes were ported back into WitP. Was that a "good thing" or a "bad thing"?
I'd say "good thing" .. if you notice the new "sub rattled by near miss" type messages during depth charge attacks, this is part of what got back fitted ... I think the main thing that affects WITP (from WPO) is the major rewrite of the sub/asw rules. Michael Wood did all this work, so I don't know any more than any other player about it. But all it all I like it .. it brings subs back into the game as subs. The "backporting" was in the 1.7.9.5 beta released last November, so it got quite a bit of shakeout in public beta before the final 1.8 changes came out last month.
Even "Ron" thinks subs are better now, OMG [:D][;)]
I didn't know that WPO changes were ported back into WitP. Was that a "good thing" or a "bad thing"?
I'd say "good thing" .. if you notice the new "sub rattled by near miss" type messages during depth charge attacks, this is part of what got back fitted ... I think the main thing that affects WITP (from WPO) is the major rewrite of the sub/asw rules. Michael Wood did all this work, so I don't know any more than any other player about it. But all it all I like it .. it brings subs back into the game as subs. The "backporting" was in the 1.7.9.5 beta released last November, so it got quite a bit of shakeout in public beta before the final 1.8 changes came out last month.
Even "Ron" thinks subs are better now, OMG [:D][;)]
I also like the "shake, rattle and roll" attacks on subs, but if subs are now undetectible in base hexes, that is a "design enhancement" that I could do without...
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