command point overstack query

[micheljq]

ORIGINAL: rrbill

Of course you can, jq. You're 4 clicks away from satisfaction, though. Think tutorial shows method. Simple, once done. Have faith and read manual.

Oh must have forgot that one, will return into the manual. [>:]

[morvael]

Looking for definitive answer (I had this process explained in full detail on the dev forum, sadly the post may be now archived). As with all leader-related issues you must assume that it's not the given officer leading units from the front, it's actually how goog he and his staff works overall. Some higher level HQs work quite well ordering units far away to do some things, providing them with means to do so.

[DHRedge]

ORIGINAL: micheljq

Can we change the HQ of a particular unit? It does not look like this game permits it.

Michel.

Yea, that is a key feature,
you right click on the icon in the unit bar on the right.
then when you get the unit page you click on the headquarters in blue on that page.
That opens a page where it shows all the HQ you can attach the unit to and the Admin points it cost to do so.

If there is not enough admin points, or the HQ is to far away, it won't be listed as an option.

You can also move 'attached support' units that supplement a units combat to a unit or to a HQ using the same method. Attached support can also be assigned, however moving them by there headquarters in the same way can also be done.

For instance if a HQ that is far from the rail head has many construction support battalions, you can move them to a HQ in the rear where they will work on rail lines, since the HQ has to be close to a rail head and not moving often, to send out its construction crews. or if you know a unit is preparing to attack a heavy fortification area, you can transfer some of the attached pioneer battalions to the unit.

[DHRedge]

ORIGINAL: morvael

For leader checks range to first HQ doesn't matter. For morale checks it never matters to any HQ. Supply and support unit require being close.

I missed this part in my verbose comment.

If there are no checks for first HQ in some situation, then anywhere within 5 would seem to be playable for xxx HQ, and actually make more sense, if those situations are what you are more worried about.

Is what you are saying is that for supply(refit?), and sending 'attached support' into battle the range matters but for all other checks such as the various combat roles, range for the first HQ does not matter, since those would be leader checks?

[morvael]

Leader rolls go up the chain of command. The first HQ on the way up is the immediate HQ. The basic mechanism is to start from Die(10) and if the result of the roll is smaller than given leader's skill, then the test is passed. For every HQ further on the way up the range of the roll is doubled (to 20, 40, 80). If all such rolls are failed or the unit has no valid immediate HQs, then it may be eligible for a "last chance" roll, of which more later.

There are certain local differences between morale, initiative, administrative, infantry, mechanized, air and naval rolls, as to which restrictions apply and what bonuses or penalties to the rolls or skills are possible. Some penalties are local (they apply only to a single roll for given HQ/leader), while some are cumulative (they are added to the roll range and go up, doubling at each step). They are listed below:

a) Initiative, administrative and air rolls for airbase units (HQ type 5) are allowed to be performed only by leaders of "air HQs" only (Soviet Air Armies, German Fliegerkorps and Luftflottes, etc.). In the previous versions of the game this caused German "army" air bases to fail those rolls automatically. In the current version such air bases are eligible for a "last chance" roll.

b) Exceeded command capacity penalty (local; applies to initiative, administrative, infantry, mechanized and air rolls): 1 is added to roll range for each point the HQ is over it's command limit. For administrative rolls only, there is a chance (Die(50)<side's logistics level-90, so 18% on default level of 100) that this penalty will be avoided.

c) Range penalty (local; applies to initiative, administrative, infantry, mechanized and air rolls): works as described in 11.3.2. Does not apply to the rolls made by immediate HQ's leader.

d) High level attachment penalty (cumulative; applies to morale, initiative, administrative, infantry, mechanized and naval rolls; does not apply to HQ units, fort units, construction units, units that are within 4 hexes of the HQ they are attached to, and AI units): 2, 4 or 6 is added to base roll range, if said unit is assigned, respectively, to level 3 (army), 2 (army group/front) or 1 (high command) HQ directly. There is no penalty when such units are assigned either to a Soviet level 3 (army) HQ starting from July 1941.

e) Size penalty (local, but affects all levels; applies to initiative and administrative rolls; does not apply to HQ units): 1 is added to roll range for unbroken Corps units, and 1 is substracted from roll range for Brigade and smaller units (including broken down Tank/Mechanized Corps and German Divisions).

f) Isolated penalty (cumulative; applies to initiative and administrative rolls): base roll range is doubled for isolated units (after "high level attachment penalty" was applied first).

g) Shock/Guards army bonus (local; applies to administrative rolls): 1 is added to leader's skill, if given unit is attached to Soviet "Shock Army", "Guards Army" or "Gds Army". Does not apply when a HQ is making a roll for itself. Does not cumulate with h). Works for non-immediate HQs as well, though with the Soviet command structure it's unlikely.

h) Tank/Panzer army bonus (local; applies to mechanized (Tank Army only) and administrative rolls): 1 is added to leader's skill, if given unit is attached to Soviet "Tank Army", German "Panzer Corps", "Panzer Group" or "Panzer Army". Applies only to non-HQ, permanently motorized (or having an Armor, Mechanized, Motorized or SP Gun TOE type) units. Does not cumulate with g). Works for non-immediate HQs as well.

i) Support squads bonus (local; applies to administrative rolls): 1 is added to leader skill if Die(1000)<number of ready support squads in the HQ. Does not apply when a HQ is making a roll for itself.

There are actually two "last chance" rolls possible, one (Die(100)<50+difficulty level-99) for support units attached to cities and airbase units not attached to air HQs, and one (Die(100)<difficulty level-99) for all units. This means that on default difficulty level of 100, the first roll has a 50% chance of success, while the second 0%, and this goes smoothly by 1% up and down depending on difficulty levels. For all rolls other than administrative roll, side's morale level is used and for administrative roll, side's logistics level is used to determine bonus. In the previous version of the game there was no equivalent of first roll, and the equivalent of the second one varied from roll to roll: morale roll succeeded when Die(60)<side's morale level-100 (so it was 1.6% for each level after 101), all initiative rolls succeeded when side's morale level was greater than 100, all admin rolls succeeded when side's logistics level was greater than 100, and other rolls had no chance to succeed if the regular rolls failed. The new method is consistent and offers smooth scaling of difficulty instead of kicking with full effect on level 101. Also the first roll in new method is a "life saver" for units that are out of proper command chain, and 50% chance seemed best choice.

Example: an isolated Soviet mechanized corps is making an admin roll in January 1943. The corps is assigned to a Tank Army overloaded by 1 point, with a leader that has administrative skill of 6. That army is assigned to STAVKA, with a leader that has administrative skill of 7. STAVKA is 29 hexes from the corps. Base roll range is 10. There is no high level attachment penalty due to date. Isolated penalty doubles roll range to 20. The Tank Army's leader has an 18% chance to ignore exceeded command capacity penalty, but he fails to do so. The penalty therefore is 1. There is no range penalty as this is the immediate HQ. Size penalty is 1. Tank Army bonus is 1. The HQ passes check and the support squads bonus applies as well. The test to make is Die(10*2+1+1)<6+1+1 -> Die(22)<8 -> 7/22 -> ~31.8%. The test is failed, so it's up to STAVKA now to pass another test. Base roll range is doubled from 20 to 40. There is no exceeded command capacity penalty, but the range penalty is 29/4 -> 7. The HQ passes check and the support squads bonus applies again, as is size penalty. The test to make is Die(40+7+1)<7+1 -> Die(48)<8 -> 7/48 -> ~14.6%. If this test would be failed as well, and the logistics level for Soviet side was set to 105 instead of 100, the unit would now try a "last chance" roll with a 5% chances of success (Die(100)<6).

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: DHRedge

ORIGINAL: morvael

For leader checks range to first HQ doesn't matter. For morale checks it never matters to any HQ. Supply and support unit require being close.

I missed this part in my verbose comment.

If there are no checks for first HQ in some situation, then anywhere within 5 would seem to be playable for xxx HQ, and actually make more sense, if those situations are what you are more worried about.

Is what you are saying is that for supply(refit?), and sending 'attached support' into battle the range matters but for all other checks such as the various combat roles, range for the first HQ does not matter, since those would be leader checks?

Anywhere within 5 is good for XXX corps HQ except some rare cases where high MP cost (big river with medium ice, mud, mountains or ZOC) would prevent given unit from using HQ for resupply. Resupplying alone is less efficient and should be avoided. In such cases it may be necessary to put the HQ next to that unit (as units in neighbouring hex are considered adjacent for supply purposes even if MP cost is higher than 20).

[Huw Jones]

I have wondered how many units you could attach but couldn't see an obvious answer.

Command Capacity, I looked on my German HQs and can't see it?

Huw

[DHRedge]

Tank Army's leader has an 18% chance to ignore exceeded command capacity

I didn't know about most of that, such as the item from your sample in quote, where there are small chances to avoid penalties, or small chances of last chance to recover based on logistic level that are not the HQ roles.

There are enough roles and variables, and as you mentioned smooth curved values, that you have to get a feel for what is best, and can not contrive a one case best situation, as a game should be.

Thanks for info on range and what it applies to, in logistical and tactical situations it applies, (supply, movement points and CV calculations), Although for Commit, Break, and Retreat(damage?destruction?) probably the checks are morale non range effected more often.

High Level attachment is the penalty you mentioned to keep people from putting all units in xxxxx to get the extra range and CP capacity, didn't know about that, but didn't use that except for exempt forts mostly, that could explain why the reinforcements entering in the west for Germans are low in values when HC attached.

It is important factor to know, since in the few starts I have tried, I have tried to rout front units to get them out of way for a clean tank spearhead instead of retreat, retreat, retreat creating the need for multiple attacks.

I also have in some situations tried to displace a HQ, so that it will have a 'moved pentalty' for other combats under its command, if you force a HQ displacement (along with longer range), it will also have its 'Has Moved' penalties applied when deducing support commitments, is that correct?

[DHRedge]

ORIGINAL: Huw Jones

I have wondered how many units you could attach but couldn't see an obvious answer.

Command Capacity, I looked on my German HQs and can't see it?

Huw

It should be in the Unit Display page for a HQ, but I haven't seen it there either. There is enough room in the form to put it there. It would make sense to have it listed under the units attached list.

It is however listed in the HQ tab of the Commanders Report info sheets as the cp column, and the column is sortable so all over cp point headquarters can be listed at top. (over cp is a neg number in blue on that form page). You get to that page, from front page, click on the Info Screens in middle of top, then click on the button that looks like a phone booth or guard shack with a flag in it.

Commanders Report is in the Tardis
Amy Remembers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eUTwgZCwII

[Huw Jones]

Definitely should be on the HQ page seeing as how important it is.

I will have a look at the Commanders report.

Thanks

Huw

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: DHRedge

ORIGINAL: Huw Jones

I have wondered how many units you could attach but couldn't see an obvious answer.

Command Capacity, I looked on my German HQs and can't see it?

Huw

It should be in the Unit Display page for a HQ, but I haven't seen it there either. There is enough room in the form to put it there. It would make sense to have it listed under the units attached list.

It is however listed in the HQ tab of the Commanders Report info sheets as the cp column, and the column is sortable so all over cp point headquarters can be listed at top. (over cp is a neg number in blue on that form page). You get to that page, from front page, click on the Info Screens in middle of top, then click on the button that looks like a phone booth or guard shack with a flag in it.

Commanders Report is in the Tardis
Amy Remembers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eUTwgZCwII

It's also shown unit bar next to the little tank symbol for HQs. Also hovering over a HQ doesn't show CP loading it does tell you how many combat units are attached and you can get to recognise the numbers.

[DHRedge]

yea once you learn what units cost 2, and what cost 1, it is easy to figure the load for xxx corps, until then, it would seem to be an item that should be an entry for the HQ page.

Your right, it is on the HQ unit itself, didn't see that there, the number also shows how many combat support units are attached.

[Huw Jones]

Thanks Guys, all sorted now.

I noticed that the Germans start with Army Group Central and South, well in the blue.

Russians Northern front as well.

Huw

[EwaldvonKleist]

Excellent thread. Somebody should put everything into a well written comprehension. I always have the feeling to do something wrong when I move my HQs around.