Patrol Arcs - How to Setup

[Skyros]

This is what I have been able to find.



The full quote of what I posted to StK's query elsewhere was:

Recon planes conducting a "recon mission" engage in a point to point activity. Range therefore does not deteriorate their effectiveness.

Patrol planes (includes float planes and bombers) conducting a "naval search" mission are engaged in an area activity. For them there is a negative corelation between distance and effectiveness. From an efficiency POV, there is very limited value in placing to search out for more than 12 hexes.

Note that aircraft conducting an "ASW mission" (another area activity) the range of the plane is halved.

It does not say that a TF will not be spotted at a distance of more than 12 hexes but rather that beyond that point there is a very definite law of diminishing returns which makes it very inefficient once one takes into account the costs associated with searching.

Also read page 217 of the manual which states that beyond 300 miles (ie 8 hexes) TFs are less likely to be spotted by aircraft conducting a naval search mission.

Alfred
fb.asp?m=3170122



1. Each plane allocated to naval search is given a 10 degree arc. That arc cannot be made smaller or bigger.

2. Each plane in the same squadron is given its own separate arc. They do not cross over into someone else's arc.

3. If you have more planes searching than 10 degree arcs set, the surplus planes will restart back at the first arc set.

4. The only realistic way to get two aircraft to search the same arc whilst still maintaining a wide search pattern is to have two or more separate squadrons allocated the exact same search arcs.

Alfred
fb.asp?m=3170504

Although often asked, there is no particularly good consolidated thread which thoroughly deals with naval search/ASW arcs. This thread is probably the best single thread.

tm.asp?m=3299579&mpage=1&key=search%2Carc&#3299641

One of the problems you will encounter is that there are some very strong advocates for not setting search arcs but they tend to hide the details as to why they can get away with it. Newbies read these no set arcs assertions and just adopt the principle that it works perfectly and obviates the case for setting arcs. From that urban myths are created. As always the devil is in the detail. Particularly when reading my posts, one has to be alert to exactly what I say and the nuances I point out.

1. Setting search arcs does increase micromanagement. Players who are averse to micromanagement or at least want to minimise, tend to be very enthusiastic at the prospect of avoiding this additional work load.

2. There is an automatic 360 degree search arc for up to 4 hexes on all naval search/ASW missions. Set the mission out to 4 hexes, you get 360 degree coverage irrespective of what you do. Set the mission out to 8 hexes, you get 360 coverage up to 4 hexes out. Coverage for hexes 5-8 inclusive depends on what you do. Set the mission out to 12 hexes, you get 360 coverage up to 4 hexes out, with coverage of hexes 5-12 inclusive dependent on your selection.

3. Consider the range of your searching aircraft. For example, Allied float planes are not really going to stretch the auto 360 degree coverage are they. So there is no point in setting naval search arcs for them as the code has already taken care of that plus if you did specifically set such search arcs you would need to reset them every time a change of task force travel direction occurs as search arcs are not dynamic.

4. Usually when the don't bother setting search arcs adherents assert that in their games they do very well without setting them they fail to point out that the DL and MDL of enemy task forces are also determined by other factors besides the efforts of their own planes flying search missions. They also fail to point out that the sheer weight of embarked planes set to search usually is much greater than what they have on land and thus the malus associated with not setting arcs is mitigated. As I said details, details which are very easy to overlook by newbies.

5. Not all sea hexes are created equal. There are frontal and backdoor approaches to most ports. How often do you really think an enemy task force is going to, or is even capable, to come in from the back door. Yet, because it is random, you will get backdoor searching if not set.


Experienced players who know exactly what they are doing and what the enemy capabilities are, can get away without setting search arcs. They save themselves some micromanagement, but that is somewhat limited as setting of search arcs for land based aircraft is largely a one time set and forget task, only needed to be revisited when a major redrawing of the sea frontlines occurs. It will superficially appear to be as effective as setting arcs, but it isn't. So the real question for you is does the additional micromanagement represent an acceptable cost for the improved search footprint obtained when setting arcs.

Alfred
fb.asp?m=3749647

Unless it has been changed in the latest patch, search planes out on a random setting do not daily adjust their search area to eventually cover (over a period of time) all 360 degrees. A random setting starts off at 0 degrees and subject to having sufficient aircraft assigned proceeds in clock direction. If only sufficient planes have been assigned to cover 90 degrees, then that was the only coverage area (0-90 degrees) one ever had searched.

Alfred
fb.asp?m=3164528

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

... A random arc is selected for each plane from the 36 10-degree arcs that are available. Over a long enough period of time, a large enough sample will mean that on average each arc is being searched the same amount... but unless you have at least 36 planes flying every phase, you will not have "360 degree coverage" every day.

The current code is actually not quite as sophisticated as this.[:)]

All maritime searching, be it Naval Search or ASW, commences at the first plane participating vector and then proceeds in sequential order of adjacent 10 degree sectors until either the air unit runs out of planes or sectors to search. With a player set search area that first plane participating sector is determined by the player. With the search left to the AI random, each day the AI determines the starting sector. As the previous days search sector is not saved it is possible that the AI will choose the same starting sector on consecutive days. Just as possible is that the AI will choose to start over land, or at least not factor whether land will subsequently come within that days sequential order.

With a player set search area it is possible to prevent searching over land. This isn't the case with a random setting. However, seeing the search arc is itself not a guarantee that all depicted sectors will be searched for search planes may abort their mission for valid considerations. These plane abortions can occur irrespective if the search was player set or left up to the AI. The depicted search arcs is therefore a best case scenario of what might be covered during that day's turn resolution phase.

Alfred

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Alfred
However, seeing the search arc is itself not a guarantee that all depicted sectors will be searched for search planes may abort their mission for valid considerations. These plane abortions can occur irrespective if the search was player set or left up to the AI. The depicted search arcs is therefore a best case scenario of what might be covered during that day's turn resolution phase.

Alfred

Interesting[&o]. I knew the last couple of arcs on each the AM and PM search arcs where suspect, but never thought that each individual arc might be suspect to cancellation --I am guessing primarily because of weather, but could a plane be grounded for repairs, or morale or other flight check reasons. For example search arc 10 passes all checks (weather, morale, leaderships, etc) and flies. Search arc 20 fails morale check and stays home. Search arc 30 scrubbed for damage to plane, search arc 40 flies, etc, etc.

Is it possible for a search arc to only be searched for a fraction of is set range...running into an oncoming storm front for example?

During the replay recon missions scrubbed for bad weather generate a little message during the replay (but I have never seen it saved to the ops report). I have played head to head games where float planes on ships that scrub their mission also generates a report, but I don't see that in a regular pbem message.

Am I missing something here...are these reports saved in some file somewhere? Can they be toggled on and off?

Many thanks for your insight and hard work at providing answers.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Alfred
All maritime searching, be it Naval Search or ASW, commences at the first plane participating vector and then proceeds in sequential order of adjacent 10 degree sectors until either the air unit runs out of planes or sectors to search.

I presume when sectors end but there are still unused and ready planes left in the unit the procedure will then return to the first sector again and continue?

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: Alfred
All maritime searching, be it Naval Search or ASW, commences at the first plane participating vector and then proceeds in sequential order of adjacent 10 degree sectors until either the air unit runs out of planes or sectors to search.

I presume when sectors end but there are still unused and ready planes left in the unit the procedure will then return to the first sector again and continue?

I can give you a 100% confirmation for player set search arcs.

The arcs themselves will show (black sector lines) a sector being overflown by multiple planes. Of course this is dependent on having assigned surplus planes to search. IOW if you have a 12 plane group (all planes being in ready status) with 50% set to rest and 50% set to naval search and you assign only a 4 sector search area (ie 40 degrees) you will have 2 surplus planes (6 ready less 1 for each sector) which will restart searching at the first plane participating sector. However if assigned 8 sectors to search you run out of planes so only 6 sectors would be searched.

It is important to understand this is done by each group independently. Excess planes from one group will not fill in the gaps of another group.

Alfred

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Alfred
However, seeing the search arc is itself not a guarantee that all depicted sectors will be searched for search planes may abort their mission for valid considerations. These plane abortions can occur irrespective if the search was player set or left up to the AI. The depicted search arcs is therefore a best case scenario of what might be covered during that day's turn resolution phase.

Alfred

Interesting[&o]. I knew the last couple of arcs on each the AM and PM search arcs where suspect, but never thought that each individual arc might be suspect to cancellation --I am guessing primarily because of weather, but could a plane be grounded for repairs, or morale or other flight check reasons. For example search arc 10 passes all checks (weather, morale, leaderships, etc) and flies. Search arc 20 fails morale check and stays home. Search arc 30 scrubbed for damage to plane, search arc 40 flies, etc, etc.

Is it possible for a search arc to only be searched for a fraction of is set range...running into an oncoming storm front for example?

During the replay recon missions scrubbed for bad weather generate a little message during the replay (but I have never seen it saved to the ops report). I have played head to head games where float planes on ships that scrub their mission also generates a report, but I don't see that in a regular pbem message.

Am I missing something here...are these reports saved in some file somewhere? Can they be toggled on and off?

Many thanks for your insight and hard work at providing answers.

Weather is a major relevant consideration.

Generally speaking, the search arcs displayed on the map after pressing the "z" hotkey are accurate. The arcs show what is expected at the time (ie the planning stage) to be flown during the subsequent turn resolution phase. They therefore take into account what is currently ready/unready so if there are fewer ready planes currently available than when the search sectors were originally specified you will see fewer sectors displayed on the map. However just as when ordering an aircraft offensive mission the player is not told if the mission will subsequently be scrubbed for weather et al reasons, the same applies to the individual aircraft on a search mission. These "scrubbing" factors are simply not known when the player is inputting their orders at the planning phase.

Always remember that the recon mission is a point to point activity using only a single aircraft out of the group whereas naval search/ASW is an area activity which uses multiple aircraft. It is far easier to generate reports on a single aircraft running a point to point action than multiple aircraft on an area action where the same factors are not necessarily present in every hex of the area.

As to sectors themselves, there is no partial intra sector searching. Either the sector was searched or it wasn't searched. However being searched does not generate a 100% guarantee of successfully generating a sighting. There is however a search penalty for not operating within set search arcs.

Alfred